AoL line

Originally Posted by Artemicion

...No Zelda in the timeline has a brother...

...I deduce Daphnes as OoT Zelda's brother...

Contradiction, eh?

Originally Posted by Artemicion

Then OoT Link being absent from the timeline didn't matter, as another hero could have still appeared a la TWW. Therein lies the rub!

What are you talking about? Hyrule was sealed because the Hero of Time
ceased to exist on the AT. It wasn't until WW that someone appeared who
could be a Hero.

Where is this rule about how many centuries can pass before a new Hero
appears? I think you pulled this out of your...

Originally Posted by Artemicion

No Zelda in the timeline has a brother, and yet unless we assume the Triforce was out of the Sacred Realm prior to OoT (when GBA ALttP's manual says it was always there until the IW), only OoT Zelda can be the 'first generation' Zelda.

The Triforce was in the SR until the interloper ordeal, but it could have been
used after that and before the ToT was built:

interlopers
ALttP backstory Sages seal SR
Triforce used
Triforce returned
Temple of Time built & keys distributed
OoT Sages seal Ganon in the second SR seal

The Master Sword could allow a king (with no evil in him) to enter the
SR and get the Triforce (Sounds like the Great King).
When the Triforce is wished on, it returns to the Sacred Realm.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

If Daphnes was alive in OoT - he didn't factor into the story, and thus wouldn't have been shown anywhere in the game.

Right... the future of the Hyrule is left to Adult Zelda while Daphnes
hides in the shadows... lol

Originally Posted by Artemicion

I deduce Daphnes as OoT Zelda's brother for two reasons:

1) He doesn't seem to be her father;

No crap.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

2) As I stated before, it doesn't appear that more than a generation passed between OoT and the flood

Based on what? Some rule you made up that a hero HAS to appear every century?
Your fanfic that Daphnes was alive in OoT? Give me something, ANYTHING
from a canon source that suggests "not more than a generation" passed before
Hyrule was sealed...

The WW backstory says that it was generations until Ganon returned:

Originally Posted by WW backstory

The boy's tale was passed down through
generations until it became legend...

But then...a day came when a fell wind
began to blow across the kingdom.

The great evil that all thought had
been forever sealed away by the hero...

...once again crept forth from the depths of
the earth, eager to resume its dark designs.

Generations. You fail.

Generations. You fail.

As arrogant as this sentence is, Cukeman, you are right.

Sorry Lex- I'd usually do anything to agree with you over li'l Cukey () but there seems very little in the way of possibility for Ganon's escape to have been in the HoT's potential lifetime (if he'd stayed).

And I have no reason to assume Daphnes is the Prince in question- nor the King or Zelda's brother from OoT, but a generations later King as the story suggests.

Originally Posted by Cukeman

Contradiction, eh

Way to read between the lines?

I was obviously getting at that we never see any Zelda's family, outside of her father in a couple games.

What are you talking about? Hyrule was sealed because the Hero of Time ceased to exist on the AT.

So why didn't a hero appear like in TWW, since it was already hundreds of years later?

The Triforce was in the SR until the interloper ordeal

The Interloper ordeal never said the Triforce left the Sacred Realm.

but it could have been used after that and before the ToT was built

But this is complete speculation.

When the Triforce is wished on, it returns to the Sacred Realm.

This is also speculation; explain OoX.

Right... the future of the Hyrule is left to Adult Zelda while Daphnes hides in the shadows... lol

She has the Triforce of Wisdom, so it's only fitting.

Based on what? Some rule you made up that a hero HAS to appear every century?

I never said that.

I said the absence of OoT Link leading to a disaster doesn't make much sense unless the disaster would have occurred in OoT Link's lifetime anyway. Link leaving the timeline doesn't mean crap if he would have been dead when Ganon returned anyway.

Moreover, generations doesn't imply centuries - simply that a couple new generations have been born. Two generations have passed since my mother's birth.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

So why didn't a hero appear like in TWW, since it was already hundreds of years later?

Obviously, WW Link was not destined to be born until his date-of-birth.
(After Hyrule was sealed away)

Originally Posted by Artemicion

The Interloper ordeal never said the Triforce left the Sacred Realm.

I didn't mean to imply that it left at that time; just that it had not been tampered
with before that time.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

But this is complete speculation.

Yes, but it's a fine example of how there could be a Zelda before OoT Zelda.
I think the Triforce becoming the royal crest is because it was used. What
is so special about the Triforce for it to become the kingdom's crest, if all
they ever did was lock the door to the Triforce?

Originally Posted by Artemicion

This is also speculation; explain OoX.

The Triforce returns to the Sacred Realm when you wish on it in ALttP and WW.
Well, I assume it does, we do see it fly off to go somewhere.

If you can prove where the Oracles go on the timeline, then we'll see if it
was wished on before it was placed in Hyrule Castle, more likely the pieces
were brought together physically, and then kept safe, not wished upon.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

She has the Triforce of Wisdom, so it's only fitting.

Red herring. We were talking about Daphnes. What isn't fitting is that once
Ganon is sealed, Daphnes doesn't appear to take on his role as King by inheritance.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

I never said that.

You suggested if centuries passed, a Hero would have appeared, how do
you know this? It could be (for example) that Hyrule was sealed centuries
after WW, but a Hero would not appear until 2 more centuries after Hyrule
was sealed. There is no guarantee whatsoever, that the hero would have
appeared if Hyrule was sealed centuries after OoT. (Except your say so)

Originally Posted by Artemicion

I said the absence of OoT Link leading to a disaster doesn't make much sense unless the disaster would have occurred in OoT Link's lifetime anyway. Link leaving the timeline doesn't mean crap if he would have been dead when Ganon returned anyway.

Yes it would. If Link died before Ganon returned, then his descendant could
fight Ganon, or his spirit could be reincarnated. But he ceased to exist on the
timeline, so his body did not father children, and his spirit was on the CT, so
it could not reincarnate. This is why the Deku Tree and Jabun expected the
Hero of Time to return, even supposing WW Link might be him. They knew
WW Link was not OoT Link, but they recognized that he still might be the
Hero of Time.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

Moreover, generations doesn't imply centuries - simply that a couple new generations have been born. Two generations have passed since my mother's birth.

At least you changed your statement that it was "not more than a generation".
You are correct that 2 generations can be less than "centuries", but I do not
think that 2 generations is enough time for the tale to become legend:

The boy's tale was passed down through
generations until it became legend...

For it to become legend, I think we need at least one century...

This is also speculation; explain OoX.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily return to the SR when wished upon, but I am equally of the opinion OoX's in the SR due to its similarity to aLttP's shrine. The portal to it may well be in the castle, but I would definitely say it resides in the SR in OoX.

The boy's tale was passed down through
generations until it became legend...

Surely longer than a couple of generations. Why Link wasn't called sooner- who are we to question the goddesses? Maybe it just wasn't destiny yet. OoT Link had to wait 7 years, Hyrule had to wait a couple of hundred. There's no way to make sense of Ganon returning in Link's potential lifetime without actively going against the story (or at the least bending it beyond falsification).

EDIT: I will shorten this post to simply this-

Originally Posted by Hylian text in intro of TWW

Though the people waited eagerly for the hero of the Legend to once again appear, the hero had put the country behind him, and journeyed into the flows of time, and never appeared. With no one to protect them, evil began to draw near even the royal palace.

This is the express reason why the hero did not appear - because he had traveled through time and left Hyrule. This reasoning is nonsense if over a hundred years had passed - there would have been no one to protect them because the hero would have been long dead.

This is the express reason why the hero did not appear - because he had traveled through time and left Hyrule. This reasoning is nonsense if over a hundred years had passed - there would have been no one to protect them because the hero would have been long dead.

And yet in tWW itself: Daphnes, Valoo, Jabun and the Great Deku Tree all explicitly state they are STILL looking for THE Hero of Time to return. EITHER it is symbolic that they are praying for a Hero to save them; it is acknowledging that if he disappeared magically into the mists of time then he could easily re-appear regardless of age; or, most likely in my opinion, the fact he's gone so far into being a legend who just disappeared that people are labelling him with some divine power of life far into the future- heck Daphnes seems still to be 'alive' to some degree post-flood. I think it's perfectly sensible for the people, hearing of the legend, to expect the Hero of Time to descend from the sky as a hero of the gods regardless seeing as he never died.

Like the Jews and Elijah, or Christians (as myself) and Jesus.

The HoT is practically mythical. There is explanation for their prayers, even if they are praying for someone of his line. There is no explanation for

The boy's tale was passed down through
generations until it became legend...

Without some serious story-bashing.

Originally Posted by Interview

Question: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall timeline of the Legend of Zelda?
Mr. Aonuma: In terms of the storyline, we've decided that this takes place 100 years after the events in The Ocarina of Time. We think that as you play through the game, you'll notice that in the beginning the storyline explains some of the events in The Ocarina of Time. You'll also find hints of things from The Ocarina of Time that exist in The Wind Waker.
Mr. Aonuma: There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of The Ocarina of Time, there were two endings to that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child. You could say that The Wind Waker takes place 100 years after the ending in which Link was an adult.

IIRC Jacensolo translated those quotes to hundreds of years, but I'm not entirely sure.

How the **** is Daphnes alive during OoT? That's just plain ridiculous.

I was obviously getting at that we never see any Zelda's family, outside of her father in a couple games.

And? She's given a brother in the AoL BS. The AoL BS doesn't need to be a freaken game.

Why does EVERY backstory have to connect to other games?

Originally Posted by Table

Why does EVERY backstory have to connect to other games?

Because they just do.

The backstory of TMC, the Hero of Men is the Hero of Time because they both have "Hero of x" in their title. Plus, "Men" almost has the same amount of letters as "Time". Also, Time. "me" is the beginning of the word "Men".

More supportive evidence is that the backstory of TP (Ganondorf's execution) connects directly to the ending of OoT and the backstory of ALttP (I'll admit somewhat) connects to FSA.

Backstories don't have to be games, but I can see a lot linking lots of the backstories together.

But there's nothing conclusive. I honestly can't see anything implying the HoM is anything we've seen in-game or anothers' backstory- BUT in my attempt to pull everything into the fewest events possible I have it that the Hero of Men is a hero from FSA's backstory to do with the Zuna wars and the Pyramid builders and first use/creation of the Trident.

BUT THAT IS MASSIVE GRASPING AT STRAWS.

Far more a pet theory-fic rather than active belief. I believe it cause it CAN happen and doesn't AFFECT THE TIMELINE- so I might as well if it helps fit things together in my head!

Originally Posted by River Zora

And yet in tWW itself: Daphnes, Valoo, Jabun and the Great Deku Tree all explicitly state they are STILL looking for THE Hero of Time to return.

My idea is sort of a combination of all of the ideas you set forth:

1) The hero traveling through time and leaving Hyrule is recent enough that it would seem the Hero of Time himself abandoned Hyrule in its hour of need.

2) The same people who still await the appearance of a hero in TWW (Daphnes, Deku Tree, Jabun) are the same ones who awaited the literal Hero of Time's appearance hundreds of years before - which is why they still refer to the hero as such (this is part of the theme of being 'stuck in the past' and doesn't necessarily need to make perfect sense).

3) There seems to be an over-emphasis on this hero specifically (in my timeline, due to him being the first major hero) that translates to a belief that he will appear long after his time is up. We see something similar in ALttP where, even though the legend of the Triforce resting in the Sacred Realm to be claimed was rendered obsolete hundreds of years before by Ganon claiming it, people are still searching for the Golden Power.