New Ganon theory?

We know that Ganondorf the Gerudo man calls forth monsters from the
"monster realm" based on the original japanese.

But what if the giant pig demon (often called Ganon) is simply the biggest
baddest beastie in the "monster realm"? The "king" of all the monsters?

What if Ganondorf the Gerudo man takes this shape simply as an expression
of the ultimate evil power? Combining the power of the demon with the power
of the ToP? (in OoT)

What if the "Ganon" in LoZ/AoL was just this giant pig demon while it was
still alive? -before it got sent to the place where spirits of the dead go?
Say this giant pig demon existed before stealing the Triforce of Power. LoZ Link
slayed this beast.

I believe that Ganondorf the Gerudo man died before the Oracles. But supposing
that Ganondorf's spirit and the giant pig demon's spirit were both in the place
where spirits of the dead go... what if Twinrova called forth the king of monsters
himself, instead of the Gerudo man who took his form? (Ganondorf)

I think I'm gonna go with this theory for now...

Depends.

In Japan, a "dai maou" is essentially a demon that commands other demons. But "demons" do not have to be monsters; they can be any being that is particularly evil and has evil magical powers. Ganondorf's devilish features in the adult future would seem to indicate that the man himself became a demon.

And in the original manual for ALttP, it was stated that Ganon was "born" when Ganondorf touched the Triforce. I still take this as canon as it is perfectly compatible with what we see in OoT.

Also, the Japanese script for OoX never identifies Ganon as the Gerudo, only as the "dai maou," so it's pretty safe to assume that Twinrova was not trying to call forth Ganondorf as a "Gerudo" but as the demon beast. The "Gerudo" was inserted by NoA to underline Ganondorf's connection to the Gerudo.

Ganondorf and Ganon AREN'T Separate entities, they are the same entity.
Ganondorf became Ganon just with the power of the ToP.

Originally Posted by smallville boy

Ganondorf and Ganon AREN'T Separate entities, they are the same entity.
Ganondorf became Ganon just with the power of the ToP.

A Link to the Past says you're wrong:

Originally Posted by aLttP SNES Manual, Japanese

At this time the evil King Ganon, who threatened Hyrule, was born.

When Ganondorf touched the Triforce for the first time, Ganon was born.

You don't think it's possible that Ganondorf 'channels' the pig demon?

^ Nah, not really, because pig demon channels moblins in his name from that realm, weaker creatures which represent and look like him.

^ That doesn't suggest to you that Ganon is the supreme leader of those "weaker creatures which represent and look like him"?

^ Right, Ganon CREATES those creatures and is a supreme leader. He became that when sent to the sacred realm and found those beasts most likely.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

A Link to the Past says you're wrong:



When Ganondorf touched the Triforce for the first time, Ganon was born.

In ALTTP When ganondorf touch the triforce he became Ganon.

In OOT Ganondorf can became Ganon by using the ToP. The same in TP.

The newest games features ganondorf having the power to switch between ganondorf to ganon and biseverse using his ToP.

I don't think Ganon "creates" monsters. The japanese WW text says that the "monster realm" was sealed
which is why the monsters in Hyrule-under-the-sea were frozen.

我が名は　ガノンドロフ この魔獣島の主だ
My name is Ganondorf. I am the master of this Demon Beast Island.
My name is Ganondorf... And I am the master of Forsaken Fortress.

ときに　小僧 お前が　その剣を台座から引き抜いた時 それまで動かなかった魔物たちが 一斉に、動きはじめはしなかったか？
By the way, kid, when you pulled that sword from its pedestal, the unmoving monsters all began to move at once, didn’t they?
By the way, boy... When you drew that sword of yours out of its resting place... Did you by chance notice how all of the monsters frozen in time down there suddenly began stirring again?

お前には、それが何を意味するか わかるか？
Do you understand what that means?
Do you understand precisely what that means? ...I highly doubt you do.

その剣は、魔を撃退する退魔の剣 であると同時に、 我が魔族を封じていた、いまいましい封印 そのものなのだよ！
That sword is the Anti-Demon Sword that repels demons. However, it is also the annoying seal that was sealing my Mazoku.
Foolish child. While that sword is indeed the blade of evil's bane, at the same time, it has long played another role... You see, it is also a sort of key... a most wretched little key that has kept the seal on me and my magic intact!

お前は、その封印を解いてしまった・・・
You broke that seal…
By withdrawing the blade, you have broken that seal...

EDIT:

...if I'm understanding this passage correctly...

When Ganondorf touched the Triforce for the first time, Ganon was born.

This is entirely figurative to me and I agree with Smallvilleboy on this. Ganon is just another name for Ganondorf, just perhaps a more royal or evil sounding one-

'Becoming Ganon' doesn't necessarily mean it's a different entity. Can Wolf Link exist on its own, is it a separate entity? Yet we still say 'Link becomes Wolf Link' and if we say 'When the Twilight came in contact with Link, Wolf Link was born' this still does not necessitate the two entities.

Ganon is just Ganondorf with a god-complex.

I think AoL makes more sense if the monsters are trying to revive their natural leader
instead of the man who used the Triforce of Power to make them follow his commands

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I think it's interesting that Ganondorf in OoT, WW and TP (with the ToP) takes on the form
of Ganon at will (he always returns to his Gerudo form after the battle).

But the Ganondorf in FSA and ALttP takes on the form permanently when he gets the Trident.

EDIT: This suggests to me that the Trident (the ancient demon tool) is connected
to "Ganon the Monster King" and that Ganondorf who has the ToP just chooses to look
like "Ganon the Monster King"

Originally Posted by Cukeman

I think AoL makes more sense if the monsters are trying to revive their natural leader
instead of the man who used the Triforce of Power to make them follow his commands

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I think it's interesting that Ganondorf in OoT, WW and TP (with the ToP) takes on the form
of Ganon at will (he always returns to his Gerudo form after the battle).

But the Ganondorf in FSA and ALttP takes on the form permanently when he gets the Trident.

EDIT: This suggests to me that the Trident (the ancient demon tool) is connected
to "Ganon the Monster King" and that Ganondorf who has the ToP just chooses to look
like "Ganon the Monster King"

Or is this a sign of Ganondorf being more powerful in some games than in others?

In the MC backstory, it seems that the monsters invade Hyrule from the "monster realm"
then the Hero of Men seals them in the Bound Chest. Vaati releases them, but maybe Zelda's
wish at the end of the game returns them to the "monster realm". And the purpose of the Trident
is to have all the monsters at your command, i.e. it LITERALLY turns the holder into "Ganon
the Monster King".

Whereas the Triforce of Power > Trident. You can control the monsters & the "monster realm",
but you aren't forced to take on the piggish demon form...

What's with all the "monster" stuff you keep saying?
We don't have any translations of MC to know whether the phrase Makai appears or not, and makai means Demon World/Realm, not Monster Realm.

Also, Cukeman:

Ganondorf creates the demon realm in OoT, so the demon Ganon is not some beast that existed separate from Ganondorf before OoT that Ganondorf "channels" from the demon realm.

And Ganondorf is the monsters' natural leader - purely by virtue of the fact that he became a Demon King.

@ Erimgard:
Demon World/Realm is what I mean by monster realm (what's the difference?).

@ Artemicion:
Can you prove that the Demon Realm is just the corrupted Sacred Realm?

Can you prove that the Demon Realm is just the corrupted Sacred Realm?

Originally Posted by ALttP

The place where you now stand was the Golden Land, but evil power turned it into the Dark World.
NOTE: The word used here is "Yami no Sekai" or "World/Realm of Darkness."

Originally Posted by OoT

Your spirit remained in the Sacred Realm...and then the Triforce fell into Ganondorf's hands. He went on to invade the Sacred Realm... Ganondorf had become the Evil King, and the Sacred Realm became a world of evil.
NOTE: The word used for "world of evil" here is "makai" or "Demon/Evil World/Realm."
[...]
Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!!
NOTE: The word used for the "Evil Realm" is "Yami no Sekai" or "World/Realm of Darkness," the same word used to describe the Dark World in ALttP.

It should be obvious that the "Evil Realm" is the Sacred Realm because before telling us that she plans to seal Ganondorf in the Sacred Realm

The six Sages will open the sealed door and lure Ganondorf back into the Sacred Realm.
I will then seal the door to the Sacred Realm from this world.
Thus, Ganondorf the Evil King will vanish from Hyrule.

Zelda tells us the legend of the Sacred Realm

The resting place of the sacred triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart...
the heart of one who enters it...
If an evil heart, the Realm will become full of evil; if pure, the Realm will become a paradise.

and reminds the player that

Ganondorf had become the Evil King, and the Sacred Realm became a world of evil.

Hmm... so basically your evidence is:

The place where you now stand was the Golden Land, but evil power turned it into the Dark World.

+

Your spirit remained in the Sacred Realm...and then the Triforce fell into Ganondorf's hands. He went on to invade the Sacred Realm... Ganondorf had become the Evil King, and the Sacred Realm became a world of evil.

+

[...]
Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!!

Problem is that (according to you) all three references mean Realm/World of Evil/Darkness, but it is only the second instance where Evil can also be translated as Demon.

I thought that there was a specific term for the Demon Realm, as opposed to
the Evil/Darkness Realm/World, which is clearly the corrupted SR.
(and I thought that specific term was Mazoku) ...?

My argument is that both ALttP and OoT establish the "World of Darkness" as the formal name for the corrupted Sacred Realm (see the use of "Dark World" in ALttP and "Evil Realm" in OoT), and that the corrupted Sacred Realm is classified as a "Demon World." (But this is not its formal name, which is why in these instances it is referred to as "a world of evil" in the English translation.)

Other games use the terms "World of Darkness" and "Demon World" in much the same way;

In AoL, the place where Ganon's minions are summoning new monsters is the "Demon World" (again translated "world of evil" like in OoT in the most recent version of AoL);

In TWW, we hear that Ganon once ruled a "Demon World" in the stories spoken of in the ancient legends (OoT);

In FSA, the Dark World is referred to both as a "Demon World" and as the "World of Darkness" (in FSA these are both just translated as "Dark World" - probably to underline the connection to ALttP's Dark World)

I thought that there was a specific term for the Demon Realm, as opposed to
the Evil/Darkness Realm/World, which is clearly the corrupted SR.
(and I thought that specific term was Mazoku) ...?

The term "mazoku" means "Demon Tribe," as in the monsters Ganon controls, not a world. You're probably thinking of "Makai" (which is the word I mention as "Demon World" throughout this post).