The LA debate

I'm bored as hell, and I haven't had this debate in like 8 months. And my views on theorizing overall have changed so much in the last 8 months.

So... where do you place LA and why?

After ALttP: This is so because of the Nightmares link has. Their of his enemies from ALttP. and yea... thats it. Nite folks.

Originally Posted by Ojlink9

After ALttP: This is so because of the Nightmares link has. Their of his enemies from ALttP. and yea... thats it. Nite folks.

SOMEONE WITH LOGIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See, ALTTP BOSSES, HE LOOKS IDENTICAL ON BOX ART, GANON IS THERE.

^LttP/LA contains 5 exclusive enemies shared between only those two games. OoX/LA contains 14 exclusive enemies shared between only those 2 games.
The LttP rerelease on the GBA contains identical style of art as OoX does. Ganon is in OoX.

Oh Table, don't start with the enemies. XD

Let's have a good think about this. These are the connections between each games:

OoX - LA:

-Boat
-Link is leaving Hyrule
-

LttP - LA:

-Original Intent (we don't know if it has changed)
-Link leaving Hyrule
-AST can take place while Link is off travelling in the dream world

There are probably more (for both), so any suggestions?

^If enemies don't matter, why does Agahnim matter? OoX could very well be enough to say that it was retconned. AST = 1998 OoX = 2000.

And Miyamoto himself said that LA can go anywhere after OoT.

Fine fine, I'll take Agahnim out. But it is pretty good evidence; nightmare takes the form of one of the enemies Link has faced.

But it is pretty good evidence; nightmare takes the form of one of the enemies Link has faced.

Aren't all of the enemies on Koholint there because of the Nightmare? All of the bosses, anyway. Which OoX/LA still has far more

I generally don't care much for enemies. I just throw it in people's faces when they mention Agahnim.

The end of OoX is absolutely perfect for setting up LA. Link defeats Ganon, goes all "Look at me, I'm on a boat!", then it ends. LA starts with Ganon defeated and Link leaving... on a boat.

Link defeats Ganon, goes all "Look at me, I'm on a boat!", then it ends.

^That picture is hilarious!

As for LA's placement, it seems that two different ideas have emerged: OOX-LA and ALTTP-LA.

There is evidence to support both, but why not put them together? As in ALTTP-OOX-LA. This could leave LA as ALTTP's intented sequel, but put OOX as LA's prequel. It seems that the evidence for this is the strongest:

Originally Posted by Japanese LA manual

One day, when your training in foreign countries was over, you were on your way sailing back to beloved Hyrule.

In OOX, he is recruited by the Triforce to accept a quest in a foreign land. Doesn't it seem that the reason the Triforce was sending him was in part to train him for new disasters? Granted, he was there to fight off Ganondorf in the end. This doesn't retconn the original intended connection for LA to be ALTTP's sequel, its just that OOX comes inbetween it.

And, that quote shows that after that, LA happens, which is also shown through the ending with OOX (not to mention they reused the sprite from LA, show further intent I think)

Rather than evidence of one contradicting the other, fitting them together seems to make the most sense.

There is evidence to support both, but why not put them together? As in ALTTP-OOX-LA. This could leave LA as ALTTP's intented sequel, but put OOX as LA's prequel. It seems that the evidence for this is the strongest:

I thought this... more than a year ago...

In OOX, he is recruited by the Triforce to accept a quest in a foreign land. Doesn't it seem that the reason the Triforce was sending him was in part to train him for new disasters? Granted, he was there to fight off Ganondorf in the end. This doesn't retconn the original intended connection for LA to be ALTTP's sequel, its just that OOX comes inbetween it.

Nothing about OoX indicates that he left for training. He was sent by the Triforce to stop Ganon.

You, who regained the peace of Hyrule from the demonic hands of the king of evil, Ganon, had not enjoyed the achieved tranquility for too long, and had embarked on a journey of training in preparation for new disasters.

And Zelda makes it VERY clear in OoX that she has never met you.

Originally Posted by Zelda in Japanese translation

My name is Zelda. You must be Link. After taking one look at you, I knew.

Originally Posted by Table

I thought this... more than a year ago... Nothing about OoX indicates that he left for training. He was sent by the Triforce to stop Ganon.

That's true, there really isn't any text to indicate, but if you think about it, the Triforce did send him to a time when he would be prepared for a new disaster (Ganon, by sending him to the right time to defeat Onyx and Veran which only partially revived Ganon) (Ok, I suppose the logic doesn' t quite work, I guess a slight retconn would be in order)

Originally Posted by Table

And Zelda makes it VERY clear in OoX that she has never met you.

It could be (and likely is) a new Zelda that doesn't know Link.

(Ok, I suppose the logic doesn' t quite work, I guess a slight retconn would be in order)

I'm fine with retcons, but if they were making OoX to go between LttP and LA, wouldn't they make it fit that way, instead of making it make no sense?

It could be (and likely is) a new Zelda that doesn't know Link.

So two fully grown Zelda's meet the exact same Link without anything implying an existance of another Zelda?

I agree to count for everything they all need to be the same Link for the nightmare thing to make sense if they're not 'just enemies'.

What we have is aLttP in which Zelda implies she knows Link from before (back in the day Sound and Drama dealt with this) and OoX which people want to be the same Link and Zelda but in this one they first meet.

OoX/aLttP/LA

That way you keep original intention while making allowance for the likelihood a pre-LA placement was no doubt what Capcom intended. We know Link has a boat- why does it have to be the exact same voyage?

I also over interpret the resurrection to say that Ganon's body was destroyed only and that his soul/spirit hanging about in the aether allowed for the bushin with Agahnim, so this placement works bettert for me having no unexplained Ganon resurrections.

Originally Posted by River Zora

I agree to count for everything they all need to be the same Link for the nightmare thing to make sense if they're not 'just enemies'.

What we have is aLttP in which Zelda implies she knows Link from before (back in the day Sound and Drama dealt with this) and OoX which people want to be the same Link and Zelda but in this one they first meet.

OoX/aLttP/LA

That way you keep original intention while making allowance for the likelihood a pre-LA placement was no doubt what Capcom intended. We know Link has a boat- why does it have to be the exact same voyage?

I also over interpret the resurrection to say that Ganon's body was destroyed only and that his soul/spirit hanging about in the aether allowed for the bushin with Agahnim, so this placement works bettert for me having no unexplained Ganon resurrections.

Then where's Ganon's DEATH before OoX?



Ok, lets agree on One Thing...
GANON DIED TWICE - Silver Arrows Did him in BOTH Times.
LoZ and ALttP. Clearly Thats how he dies. OoX most likely comes After ALttP and thus would Need a bit of a Revival. LoZ-->AoL shows Ganon as having ASHES, and is in need of a REVIVAL but luckily that never happens.

Plus, the boat at the end of OoX may be the LA boat or not, but don't go ignoring the Boat in OoX and THEN go to ALttP, and THEN go on to LA... It's just not very coherent.

If people wish to Start claiming that the enemies "Dont Matter" then...
I Think the LA Link would be the OoX's link (and in my feable mind, i would also think that the OoX's link would be The OoT link in a very strange theory i had). So yea... but thats only considering IN-GAME Recollections of past enemies are just put to side, along with tingle and other "unimportant events or characters"

Then where's Ganon's DEATH before OoX?

Twilight Princess or The Wind Waker depending on the timeline you want to put the arc on.

Ok, lets agree on One Thing...
GANON DIED TWICE - Silver Arrows Did him in BOTH Times.
LoZ and ALttP. Clearly Thats how he dies.

Ganon 'dies' to some degree five times. LoZ, aLttP by silver arrows. tWW and TP by Master Sword when he doesn't have the Triforce to protect him. And then the odd case of his half resurrected body in OoX.

OoX most likely comes After ALttP and thus would Need a bit of a Revival. LoZ-->AoL shows Ganon as having ASHES, and is in need of a REVIVAL but luckily that never happens.

Why does OoX come most likely after aLttP? If it's after any game directly AoL makes significantly more sense.

Plus, the boat at the end of OoX may be the LA boat or not, but don't go ignoring the Boat in OoX and THEN go to ALttP, and THEN go on to LA... It's just not very coherent.

Perfectly coherent. Link goes home, has more adventures, then decides to go off sailing again.

If people wish to Start claiming that the enemies "Dont Matter" then...
I Think the LA Link would be the OoX's link (and in my feable mind, i would also think that the OoX's link would be The OoT link in a very strange theory i had). So yea... but thats only considering IN-GAME Recollections of past enemies are just put to side, along with tingle and other "unimportant events or characters"

LA and OoX is the one that requires the enemies to be important the most- basically all the enemies are shared- significantly more than aLttP/LA. Table/SoM wanna help me with this?

Originally Posted by River Zora

I agree to count for everything they all need to be the same Link for the nightmare thing to make sense if they're not 'just enemies'.

Disagree, Aghanim is in OoS. So there is no issue with the nightmares.

Originally Posted by River Zora

LA and OoX is the one that requires the enemies to be important the most- basically all the enemies are shared- significantly more than aLttP/LA. Table/SoM wanna help me with this?

Disagree, OoX-La is stronger even without the shared enemies. The mermaid references and statue and the owl statues in LA are only well explained if he is OoX Link. Oh did I mention the talking animals exclusive to OoX and LA?

I was referring to OoX/LA NEEDS to be the case for enemies and minor references and aLttP/LA needs to for original intention which doesn't quite seem necessary to remove and main storyline narrative.

I am certain OoX must come before LA with the same Link.
I am certain aLttP must come before LA with the same Link.
In aLttP Link knows Zelda from before.
In OoX Link meets Zelda

.'. My arc

Originally Posted by River Zora

I was referring to OoX/LA NEEDS to be the case for enemies and minor references and aLttP/LA needs to for original intention which doesn't quite seem necessary to remove and main storyline narrative.

I am certain OoX must come before LA with the same Link.
I am certain aLttP must come before LA with the same Link.
In aLttP Link knows Zelda from before.
In OoX Link meets Zelda

.'. My arc

Oh my bad.
I too fancy OoX Link = LA Link = ALttP Link. I guess OoX-ALttP-LA might work...although I see issues. And I think it's sacrificing connections raising issues just to avoid the Zelda does not know Link thing.
I'd rather use some loophole, like: Zelda says that in a dark tower after being kidnapped/ The game has to introduce Zelda/ The quote does not mean they never met etc. I know that's stretching it, bit it seems to me that OoX-ALttP causes too many problems if ALttP Link and OoX Link are meant to be the same Link.

Edit: And it's not implied that ALttP Zelda knows ALttP Link from before. Unless that's the case in S&D, but wasn't S&D full of contradictions anyway?