Universe 2 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Sabbo

A) I can't dispute this any further. That doesn't mean I believe that though.

B) Then what's the point of the established places? We already have places now, so making more just for the sake of making them is pointless.

C) I realise that it's entirely pointless to argue this due to this universe 2 never going to exist, but... meh. My characters are the only iterations of themselves which exist in any universe, and this started to be true the moment they started using the void portals as transport, so no, their histories would not be different.

B) No, we're making places for the sake of using them. Most places are used only once or twice and then thrown in the bin.

C) Their histories would be very different. Very. Because A) The timeline deal. and B) Other people would do different things in U2, thus effecting your characters in different ways.

Originally Posted by VenomousNinja

B) No, we're making places for the sake of using them. Most places are used only once or twice and then thrown in the bin.

C) Their histories would be very different. Very. Because A) The timeline deal. and B) Other people would do different things in U2, thus effecting your characters in different ways.

Since we've argued points A & B as far as we can (we've repeated previous arguments already), I'll focus on the other.

Let's say Tera, as she is now, decides to randomly move through existence using the Void, and lands in "Universe 2". People she meets and places she sees would be different, but she herself would be the same. She would then be able to, if she chooses to, go back to "Universe 1". What do you see wrong with this?

Originally Posted by Sabbo

Since we've argued points A & B as far as we can (we've repeated previous arguments already), I'll focus on the other.

Let's say Tera, as she is now, decides to randomly move through existence using the Void, and lands in "Universe 2". People she meets and places she sees would be different, but she herself would be the same. She would then be able to, if she chooses to, go back to "Universe 1". What do you see wrong with this?

Because Universe 1 and 2 are not connected in any way, and therefore cannot be traveled to and fro.

Originally Posted by VenomousNinja

Because Universe 1 and 2 are not connected in any way, and therefore cannot be traveled to and fro.

They are connected in that they both exist, even in just the literary sense.

Originally Posted by Sabbo

They are connected in that they both exist, even in just the literary sense.

No, see, they're not connected at all. There's nothing between them, while they're still very far apart. There is no void, no space, just... nothing.

Originally Posted by VenomousNinja

No, see, they're not connected at all. There's nothing between them, while they're still very far apart. There is no void, no space, just... nothing.

But void is nothing.

Originally Posted by Sabbo

The universe we have at the moment has been structured (or rather, not structured) so that BAers have as much freedom in their writing as they need. I suggest that if you want a structured universe, you consider looking for a second place you can do RPs at other than the Escapists' Haven.

I agree with this.

Originally Posted by VenomousNinja

I'm not saying total structure, people will still have the freedom that they have usually, however, there will be pre-established buildings, cities, NPCs, companies, etc. That can be used in all the RPs taking place in that universe, and these pre-established elements will be able to link two RPs or characters together so that they mix, while both of them still being independent.

Think of a city of gods. Each god can be linked together or learn about one another through things like the newspaper, radio, TV, internet, libraries, work, etc. etc. But they have the freedom they want to go off and create new cities and such, but be able to return to that one city with all it's people whenever.

I like these ideas.

Originally Posted by et cetera.

uh, we can't have a second universe until we establish the first one.

which we haven't.

the "universe" that BA events occur in is actually a disjointed amalgamation of countless number of universes, one for each character's story line.

I almost agree with this, except that you can have a second universe simply by stating that people from the first universe can not enter the second universe, (unless they are a copy, branching off on a completely different story-line based off of the RP’s he undertakes.) and that universe two has different aspects that are not included in U1.

Originally Posted by Sabbo

"okay; it's done. let's use it now"?

What VN is trying to say is that you would never say this. Universe two would be constantly expanding. New, preset, intricate wolds would be cool.

Originally Posted by Sabbo

And anyway, what would happen if there was an event such as what happened in the RP Chinatown Rush? One of the intricately crafted cities would be completely destroyed, ruining much hard work.

Suffice to say, your idea... it's just not good to add in directly alongside an already existing universe. If you started from scratch in a place separate from the BA, your idea would be better, but we have no use for a second universe when we already have one here.

That could happen, and it would be awesome in some ways, as it would affect other places, and vicariously effect other character... And I agree with the second part.

Originally Posted by VenomousNinja

There is one huge advantage to my idea, alongside many smaller advantages:
A) It would give all characters common ground. They would all be able to navigate the streets of a certain city, even if they haven't been in an RP together.

B) This BA universe would have a concrete past that is shared by all. It would change the way how all characters view things and how they act.

C) Most things that happen in one RP would affect others happening in another RP.

D) All RPs would be connected and would be happening at the same time, thus allowing an outside force to have an inpact in an RP.

I like these ideas. They make perfect sense. Its much like having the dome effect so many characters, except it is done on a larger and more varied scale. Not a bad idea at all.

Originally Posted by Sabbo

Your suggestion would doubtlessly need a GM to make it work properly (and consistently), and the required control said GM would need to have is far beyond what any current councillor has, or likely would want to have.

And what of characters who have integral parts of their storyline attached to places already made canon in the current universe (eg. Aikomira & Z have both attached their characters to Rubato, a place she made), or mine, who could theoretically move between the two universes at will?

A GM would be handy, or maybe just a council... =P

About the storylines attached to places already made canon, I supose you could have the same place exist in U2, but it would have no attachment at all to U1 once it was made. And you could always make your own town in U2, or worlds, with as little or much detail as you wish.

Originally Posted by VenomousNinja

A) Not necessarily. Just a little guidance, not like an overbearing GM.

B) I said that there would be established places, not that you couldn't make places yourself.

C) Your character wouldn't be able to move between the two universes at will, since it is completely seperate from the other(making it impossible to traverse from one to the other) and the timeline is different(meaning your character's history would be screwed up badly and your whole character would change if you even tried it.)

The two universes would be different in the sense that theoretically, there could be a Tera existing in both universes. So Sobbo, if you insist on having your character travel between the two universes, (which you could just... Not do, for the sack of making things much less complicated) Then Tera could potentially meet an exact copy of herself. This is a possibility, and VN is actually wrong in his reasoning for thinking that it is not, except that his reasons do apply to almost any other character. And of course, he could always make it a rule in the second universe that the two universes shall be separated no matter what, and violators will be severely frowned upon.

The bottom line is! Great idea. It would go great with a website that is NOT ZU. And! Too much work. Not worth it. I spend too much time on my current characters with they’re current stories that are severely underdeveloped to spend any more time working on a completely different set of characters with a completely unrelated in any way storyline.

Humm... I actually do wish the BA was a little more like the universe 2 VN describes.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Sabbo

A) I can't dispute this any further. That doesn't mean I believe that though.

B) Then what's the point of the established places? We already have places now, so making more just for the sake of making them is pointless.

C) I realise that it's entirely pointless to argue this due to this universe 2 never going to exist, but... meh. My characters are the only iterations of themselves which exist in any universe, and this started to be true the moment they started using the void portals as transport, so no, their histories would not be different.

Oh wait... Meh, my other points still stand. And the underlying reasons for having a U2 go beyond characters being able to move too and from it as they please. Therefor, Tera wouldn’t be able to enter it. You could however, create a different Tera for U2 (who, in turn, would not be able to enter U1, because they are not connected... AT ALL. They are two different books that shall never be crossed. Like two writers writing about the same character, who never knew eachother.) with a new, developing storyline. That is the point of it.

There we go. That’s what I’ve been trying to say. =]

Originally Posted by I)ragon11

*Multiquotes*

I agree, especially with that it's not suitable to have here.

I must also admit the following would likely've been taken into account if the U2 were made:

if you insist on having your character travel between the two universes, (which you could just... Not do, for the sack of making things much less complicated) Then Tera could potentially meet an exact copy of herself. This is a possibility, and VN is actually wrong in his reasoning for thinking that it is not, except that his reasons do apply to almost any other character.

I probably wouldn't universe-hop, as it would be akin to hopping between universes which are on different websites entirely.

Related to this, I've actually asked before, and it seems I'm the only person with characters who have a specific ability allowing them to dimension-hop. :/ (excluding semi-dimensions such as Chibi's Joker's Dream Realm, or whatever it's called)

Originally Posted by Sabbo

I agree, especially with that it's not suitable to have here.

I must also admit the following would likely've been taken into account if the U2 were made:



I probably wouldn't universe-hop, as it would be akin to hopping between universes which are on different websites entirely.

Related to this, I've actually asked before, and it seems I'm the only person with characters who have a specific ability allowing them to dimension-hop. :/ (excluding semi-dimensions such as Chibi's Joker's Dream Realm, or whatever it's called)

Technically since the Dome is the anex of all universes, any person connected(Strongly connected for a greater result...like a teacher) can theoretically hop between any universe, granted the Dome allows this.

Originally Posted by Sabbo

But void is nothing.

And nothing is void. Like squares and... squares.

I agree with Sabbo, his character would be able to move between the two if she were able to manipulate the nothing for travel purposes, which the BA Council seems to think is okay.

Originally Posted by Robin Goodfellow

Technically since the Dome is the anex of all universes, any person connected(Strongly connected for a greater result...like a teacher) can theoretically hop between any universe, granted the Dome allows this.

This is true for the BA as it stands (and as it will for a long time), but VN already stated the Dome would not exist in this second universe he's proposing. :/

And anyway, my characters are still the only ones who, alone, have dimension-hopping abilities on par with the Dome's.

All of this logic (save for Lys's, whose logic I am simply rephrasing now that I think of it) pales before the indomitable fact that, contrary to Vien's belief, we have no thoroughly established Universe. If we wanted to reuse a place for a different event, or make our characters do something outrageously uncharacteristically strange, we could just make it so that the entire thread (or whatever) takes place in a parallel universe. There is no reason why we should make an entire second universe for a simple handful of oddities.

Originally Posted by Sabbo

This is true for the BA as it stands (and as it will for a long time), but VN already stated the Dome would not exist in this second universe he's proposing. :/

And anyway, my characters are still the only ones who, alone, have dimension-hopping abilities on par with the Dome's.

Woah?! When did I say that the dome would not exist in the second universe? It would exist, just a different dome...
You know, now I think universe is the wrong word... Let's try, 'reality/place/universe/EXISTINGTHINGOVERALL".

Yes, that fits.

Originally Posted by Davy Jones

All of this logic (save for Lys's, whose logic I am simply rephrasing now that I think of it) pales before the indomitable fact that, contrary to Vien's belief, we have no thoroughly established Universe. If we wanted to reuse a place for a different event, or make our characters do something outrageously uncharacteristically strange, we could just make it so that the entire thread (or whatever) takes place in a parallel universe. There is no reason why we should make an entire second universe for a simple handful of oddities.

However, most people don't do this. Most characters(I think, possibly all) I have come into contact with have a time line and past that happens in one universe. I don't think I've ever seen an RP take place in a parallel universe.

Edit: I)boy. You know, it wouldn't be that much work. We could have a list of existing places, existing NPCs, A u2 council(which, would be our current BA council, just, specifically for working in U2), a whole different board for it, and like, a U2 overmaster and a set of rules for U2...
If we tried, it could work out.

We've already got two completely separate RP sections on this forum. We do not need a third.

Originally, I thought this would be a good idea. But here are some reasons why I feel differently now:

1.) If an RPer wants something to happen, he can make it happen. That's called Creative Liscence. If there's something in the world that I want, it will be there.

Ex.: If my character needs to buy something, then there's a shop, somewhere, that he can go to. Because I put it there. Because he needs to buy something.

2.) The only thing a structured universe does is tell us what we can't do. If I want my character linked to his, then all it takes is a PM asking if that's alright. I might not want my wonderful Alchemist sword-and-shield-wielding Crusader linked to my neighbor's Klingon space-prirate.

3.) Even if the universe has a set timeline and a set era, it is again only limiting. What place is there for a post-modern spacecraft (excluding time travel) in a medieval fantasy realm, or vice versa?

4.) People simply might not know about it. I, for one, had absolutely no idea there was a "U1" until I read this bloody post about "U2". Even if people got behind this, and the idea was a scream, "establishing" the established universe would be a massive undertaking, and the mods would have to be in on it.

5.) And if people liked it, and if it got established, and if it had a timeline, what do we do with newbies? Make them take a history class before they can RP here? When I join an RPing site, I like to be able to throw my character together with my own storyline with out having to say, "And then he moved here." My character is in his world, or possibly in another one that I approve of, when I RP him. Most of my characters are from my book, or at least RPed in the universe of my book. And I can promise you that, if an established universe was set here, myself and those who RP in a similar fashion would be nowhere to be found. Why? Because we want our own universe, and not someone else's.

What you're asking for, my friend, is simply this: A specific RP. You want it so bad? Go start it! Make the "established universe" very clear in the first post, or in an RP profile, and the people who like it will flock to the thread and join it.

The RP site that I grew up on had rooms and things that were pre-established, but the users could make a new room any time they wanted to. This was in a chat site and not a forum, so it was easier to manage than having a thousand threads all over the place. And there was no history for this very reason-- I recall a similar discussion for the site. People just don't want to be stuck in someone else's world unless it's one with which they're already familiar.

...

What he said.

This thread was dead for close to two months. Why did we need to revive it? It was ready to be swept aside and ignored entirely :3

Originally Posted by Sabbo

...

What he said.

Mwahaha.

Originally Posted by Davy Jones

This thread was dead for close to two months. Why did we need to revive it? It was ready to be swept aside and ignored entirely :3

I move that this thread remain open until more people acknowledge how I officially and thoroughly deconstructed it in my above post. xD

I think it's a bad idea. Well... good idea, but bad for ZU.

I agree with everything Sabbo has said, in short.

And what about characters like my Tree Shade? He doesn't live in any one universe, but inbetween them. It'd be impossible for a second one to exist.