OoC Thread XXIII: The Tournament shall begin soon! Check out the Events Hall for details!

*hugs Haly* Luff yew. For what it's worth, I always find your posts fun when you do post in RPs.

*hugs*

Thanks. I do try to put forth my best effort each time. I can't tell you how many times I've deleted something instead of posting it.

And I do feel like that if I can sort out these certain key problems in my life, I can get back to writing like I used to. It'd take time and effort to get back in my groove, but once I've got it, I know I'll be posting more often, and posting better stuff.

And that's what I'm working towards.

We're here for ya all the way! <3

Originally Posted by Halcyon Hero

Although, I think Fairby is being a little unfair. To allude procrastination to not caring is a bit harsh. Do I procrastinate? Yes. Do I have good reasons for it? Yes. Could I do better? Yes.

This is essentially how I feel about it. Just because you procrastinate on something doesn't mean you don't care. It just might not be your number one concern, or there could be a large number of other factors involved, or maybe you're just lazy, but that doesn't mean you don't care. That's a huge generalization.

I also think that Fairby's taking procrastination in the BA a little too seriously. There's a difference between procrastinating on your work, which should be close to your top priority, and procrastinating on RPing, which should be one of your last priorities (depending on your lifestyle/situation).

Am I encouraging procrastination? No, I think it's a terrible habit, but I don't blame anyone when it happens. Sometimes it's just too hard to get anything on paper, sometimes we draw a blank and don't want to submit a sub-par post, or sometimes we just don't know what to do next in the thread.

The BA isn't a job, it's supposed to just be for fun. It's a hobby, at its best. An obsession, at its worse. No one should take it so seriously.

Hey hey. We're the Monkeys.

Does anyone have any retired characters they don't intend on un-retiring? I would like to use them for a magic system to publish into the BA for everyone to be able to use.

If everyone here donated even a single character, I would have a magnificently large list to work with. It would be very much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Fairess

I do like the effort you put into formulating a reponse as harsh as the one that I proposed. School is frustrating to me, too, on top of another bunch of very personal things that make my life difficult. What I believe, however, is that everyone can learn to care. Because once you decide that something is worth your time and sacrifice (i.e. friends, degrees, a job), you also have to decide that everything it comes with is also worthwhile. It's a mentality, something we overcome not for the sake of even achieving a goal, but becoming better people. Making everything we have to deal with meaningful gives us the drive to achieve.




I think that's a bit of a hasty generalization. Fear I can understand, but my rebutal runs along the same lines as my former ideas. Once you decide to do something, you also decide to live with the consequences that follow. If you want to be a writer, then you have to understand that you are going to make mistakes and that to get better you have to put work into growing until you know you've made something worthwhile. When you go into the workforce for the first time, you also have to understand that mistakes and misunderstandings will be made, but it still requires that you make that effort each and every day. If you can't break through that sense of fear even to show up, you might as well go and find something you can handle because other people can't work with a no-show.

You can call it distracted, lazy, depressed, a bad case of writer's block, crushing fear of having your work read, or any single name that seems to suit the situation. What I have learned about writing is that those who are successful with it are not those who find, or happen to have, or aren lucky enough to get free time. They aren't the people who the muse speaks to every second of the day. They're the people who are willing to stare at a blank screen with a blinking curser for thirty minutes three times a week if that's what it takes to get something, anything down. Because they know that when they make that commitment, eventually something has to follow.

If someone, over the course of an entire week, doesn't have thirty minutes to even think about something outside of in their immediate life, they've gotta be President Obama, and they are by no stretch of the imagination a writer. Brilliant, wonderful things happen because we make sacrifices and because we find it in ourselves to care. They don't happen out of their own because it's convenient.

So if someone wants to tell me that they're noncommital or lazy or depressed or anything else, that's fine. Just don't profess to care about writing something with me. For about a year or so I had to walk a mile or so outside of my house because the only computers I could use were at the public library. I wasn't allowed to do stuff for ZU because my parents and the librarian at school felt it was wasteful. So, after school, I would walk to a computer, sit down, and write because it meant something to me. Sometimes it was easy and sometimes it wasn't. When I didn't have time to write on the computer, I would print out posts and write my own on paper so I could just copy it on the computer and post it when I could.

Since that time, I've published things in magazines and am working on a minor in English. I've had a lot of school to do and a lot of things to deal with during my parent's divorce and deeper issues with my siblings (work included). But I have found that time every day to write, whether it's for ZU or class or short stories because I care about it. Yes, I have my own laptop and my own apartment now so being able to do more personal writing like this is more convenient for me. But I have valued the work of others I write with and shown it. I admit it's a lot of my pathos talking, but yes, if it isn't obvious, I'm frustrated with a lot of BA members who never seem to have the time or emotional power to even tell me that they care about writing with me.

That's all very well and good that you enjoy and care about writing so much. That's great that it means so much to you.

But yeah, the harsh truth might be that others don't care as much. It's not necessarily a bad thing that they don't either. It's a personal thing about what it is that is most important to a person in life. They can enjoy writing, yes. I certainly have enjoyed writing. But there were certain periods in my life when writing couldn't be my focus. Writing for me can sometimes be an unhealthy escape from which I must abstain or cause more harm to myself as a person.

You shouldn't take it personally that other people don't care as much about writing or are not as dedicated to it as you are. Because it's not about you. That's just who they are and what they value or simply how they are. They don't do it because they don't care about you as a person. I don't think it's fair to go on about how dedicated you are and then expect everyone to be just as dedicated or you take it as a personal offense. Writing is often just a hobby for people, so no, they aren't going to care about it as much as they are going to care about other things in life. Yes, sometimes they are merely lazy. But that's okay too. You know why?

Because this is just an RP forum were we get together to have fun on our free time. It's not supposed to be that serious.

If it matters that much to you though, then you should look for like-minded people, someone who is just as dedicated as yourself. If you can't find another person like that, maybe you will later, but for the time being your options will be limited.

Originally Posted by Drammor

Hey hey. We're the Monkeys.

Does anyone have any retired characters they don't intend on un-retiring? I would like to use them for a magic system to publish into the BA for everyone to be able to use.

If everyone here donated even a single character, I would have a magnificently large list to work with. It would be very much appreciated.

I have many.


MANY.



You can search and see if/who you like and ask me about them.

I don't like you people.

*Folds arms and turns up nose* HMPH.

*looks up nose*

You might want to trim those hairs there, buddy.

Y'know, I've encountered this with a lot of my arguments with you guys. You skip every important point I make to focus on an extreme I didn't even mention. I realize that people have lives and desires different than mine. Just justify to me not saying anything to me after having to commited to a thread with me for three weeks to three months.

Originally Posted by SacredSturgeon

... Hopefully?

Maybe someday I'll send you some food. I think the bread is about gone. D: If you lived in the US it would be a bit easier.

I'm worried less about getting eaten alive and more about getting bitten in my voolnerables.

Hmm... I'd just keep those away from his knees... O__o

I've noticed that a lot of you seem bent on avoiding the main points of Fairess's argument.

When you come to a writing forum like this, it's not something that effects just you. That would be the case in casual solo'd hobbies. These forums are interactions between real people. It's not just about you and what's convenient for you (ironic that you think Fairess being unfair when she is promoting consideration of another ). Sure, procrastinate on your own activities. It is unfair, however, to waste someone's time or show a lack of good social skills by not communicating your reasons for ditching a collaborative thread at long intervals, yet making time to post nonsense in this section.

Alternatively, understand that different people have different priorities and perspectives, and that when you enter an activity with different people, you're going to get different levels of dedication and activity.



And to clarify, because I thought I did address Fairby's points.... what are your main points?

Originally Posted by Halcyon Hero

And to clarify, because I thought I did address Fairby's points.... what are your main points?

I'm pretty sure I addressed her points as well, at least from what I could determine from her post. I'm not sure what else I could have said in response. I just think she's taking it a little too seriously.

Originally Posted by Fairess

Y'know, I've encountered this with a lot of my arguments with you guys. You skip every important point I make to focus on an extreme I didn't even mention. I realize that people have lives and desires different than mine. Just justify to me not saying anything to me after having to commited to a thread with me for three weeks to three months.

Well I guess you can't really justify leaving someone in the dark, but I never expect anyone to try and explain why they're procrastinating. Every once in a while I'll remind them to post in the thread, if I feel like they've forgotten or something, but I don't expect them to tell me what they're going through. I expect them to post when they feel like posting.

Also maybe being hypocritical, just a little? So far, she's waited a month for a post in Terra Incognita. Before that, it waited two months for her to post. And she never said she'd get to it, or anything like that.

So I don't really understand.

Try being a little less defensive and a little bit more apt to listen. Cuco basically said it for me. It's polite to show that you care by at least making clear the reasons why you can't or don't want to post. I can deal with that. But when I wait weeks and months, literally months watching people post random things in the OoC and saying nothing to me about our threads or what they even intend to do, I get frustrated because yes, I care. Not just about the writing-ness, but the fact that if someone says they want to write with me, that they do so instead of being false about their actual commitment. That's not just procrastinative, that's rude.

And to be perfectly fair, HH, I didn't wait months. We were all waiting on someone else (whom you know) to post so that technicality is incorrect and even deflective from the argument at hand. Fallacy-wise, it's called a Personal Attack.

I understand, obviously Fairby as well, that everyone has different schedules with their own personal hardships. However, why start a thread when you know you can't keep it up? Also, why not contact your fellow thread contributor(s), thus showing responsibility and forethought, when you have to take a break from posting in their threads?

If you still cannot see the importance or even the idea of online social etiquette, how about you read the posts again and consider being more objective instead of a reactionary.

Originally Posted by Fairess

Try being a little less defensive and listen a little bit more apt to listen. Cuco basically said it for me. It's polite to show that you care by at least making clear the reasons why you can't or don't want to post. I can deal with that. But when I wait weeks and months, literally months watching people post random things in the OoC and saying nothing to me about our threads or what they even intend to do, I get frustrated because yes, I care. Not just about the writing-ness, but the fact that if someone says they want to write with me, that they do so instead of being false about their actual commitment. That's not just procrastinative, that's rude.

I guess my responce to this is:

Originally Posted by Quark

Well I guess you can't really justify leaving someone in the dark, but I never expect anyone to try and explain why they're procrastinating. Every once in a while I'll remind them to post in the thread, if I feel like they've forgotten or something, but I don't expect them to tell me what they're going through. I expect them to post when they feel like posting.

It seems like you're imposing a set of etiquette on the BA that doesn't quite belong. Yes, most of us take a long time to post. Yes, we sometimes remind each other that we are waiting. No, we don't just randomly offer updates and promises. That's just the way the BA as a whole has always been. You're taking this too seriously.

And to be perfectly fair, HH, I didn't wait months. We were all waiting on someone else (whom you know) to post so that technicality is incorrect and even deflective from the argument at hand. Fallacy-wise, it's called a Personal Attack.

To be perfectly fair, we had determined that he could not really progress the story in any way, and since Quark and I had just posted, the next turn fell to you. So to me, it does still seem you're being hypocritical.

Originally Posted by Cucco_Chic

I understand, obviously Fairby as well, that everyone has different schedules with their own personal hardships. However, why start a thread when you know you can't keep it up? Also, why not contact your fellow thread contributor(s), thus showing responsibility and forethought, when you have to take a break from posting in their threads?

If you still cannot see the importance or even the idea of online social etiquette, how about you read the posts again and consider being more objective instead of a reactionary.

Here's your response, then, HH. I've made my points and that's all I really need to say. If people don't think being considerate is part of online manners, they're the ones that are going to feel the consequences. I'm not perfect myself, but I can at least recognize that.

Ok, how about this? Would it not be considerate to ask the person you're waiting for if they plan on posting soon? That maybe they forgot, and instead of unloading unnecessary drama on the community as a whole, remind them nicely?

I would consider that good manners.