The Decline of Graphic Art.

[Nox]

I've said it many times in the Signature Chit-Chat thread and in other threads, but I'm seeing a repetative style in this forum and it's getting to the point where the attitude of "we're true graphic artists" is subtle, but not enough to where it can't be noticed. It seems that to be a good sig maker, your sigs have to look like the same signature you made the last time with layers of filters, senseless abstract c4ds, and copyright images all in order to get a good 3-second "wow" effect. After the praise and critique, you make another signature or art piece in the same manner, only throw in some different colors and lighting effects in order to pass it off as something real. This vicious cycle goes on for however long it takes and I think it has to stop somewhere. Now sounds good enough.

Sig making is an introduction to graphic arts, because it shows you the basics of the program. Despite what I said in my last paragraph, I'm not saying that anybody that makes your average cookie-cutter sig is bad, it's just that they're wasting their potential on making an improvement in what they do and decide to follow a tutorial in order to appease to the seething masses. This in turn, builds up a sense of false accomplishment like you really have mastered the use of Photoshop when in fact, you only made something that is only a fraction of the actual size of most graphic art pieces and only scrathed the surface of graphic arts. We're talking resolutions beginning at 500 X 500 and going on from there. A sig is very easy to make, especially one that has so many bland effects applied to it like the ones I'm criticizing. Try and make something like this on a 500 X 500 background. It's not easy as it sounds, hell try making that on a background that is the same size as a piece of standard paper and not use any other images or c4ds, just the original stock image and some minor filters. Not so easy to do, because this is what graphic artists do either freelancing or for a living.


All in all, try some new styles. Don't throw away the basics of art in the process though, such basics being light, color, tone, and what the image is supposed to portray. This will lead you on a road of false accomplishment and repetative styles. Try using radically new techniques in your sig making and from there, make something abstract without any stock images that are copyrighted. The results could be good if done right.

[Coss]

****ing cool? I think so.

Repetitive styles leads to improvement and perfection. A artists style defines him. It would be like telling Van Gogh to try a new style.

[Wired]

Ha! Well I think he's getting at how people have a defined style for the masses and that everyone basically does that. I've done large pieces before and I find them to be pretty fun and easy for me to do. It does get hard to fill in some empty spaces and make everything fit and flow but I find it fairly simple.

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by Sora

****ing cool? I think so.

Repetitive styles leads to improvement and perfection. A artists style defines him. It would be like telling Van Gogh to try a new style.

Ugh, please don't shoot Alex down until you really understand what being a graphic artist is all about.

Observe...

www.digitalgelight.org

This website has been published in a magazine (hence how I found it) describing it as
"You only need to venture one page into Niel Quisaba's spectacular self-promotion website to realised the potential of this creative's yields."

Now, Yes Sora you can see repeated pattern, but is it exactely the same with only a fraction of it changed. No. If you still think so, please buy yourself some glasses.

Alex wants to stop the constant "amatuer" approach to signature making, and see the developement of TRUE graphic skills from the members who claim to have them. Instead of taking twenty minutes to make a signature, try three to four hours.

Or this....

Shinybinary v2.1 - Art and designs of Nik Ainley

"Shinybinary showcase a stunning image repertoire from the talented hand of digital artist Nik Ainley. The self-taught Uk-based web designer claims heb has a need for knowledge and according to his modest biography he "won't stop until he has mastered all the tools he needs to fully realise his designs".

Goregous work. Can not deny it. Even though they look simular, you have to say that they are all pretty different.


Alex isn't targeting people who are good at signatures, he is targeting at the people who think that it should stop there.

[315]

If it looks aesthetically pleasing, who the **** cares how it's made it?

[Kishiro Diablo]

Originally Posted by Ganon's daughter

Shinybinary v2.1 - Art and designs of Nik Ainley

Thank you for posting this. I love you. This person's (or persons') work is beautiful. I'd love to see more of these kind skilled people on ZU (but then again if they were this skilled why would they be on ZU showing us their work when they could be out selling their designs)

[Nox]

Originally Posted by Sora

Repetitive styles leads to improvement and perfection. A artists style defines him. It would be like telling Van Gogh to try a new style.

There is a huge difference between what Van Gogh did and what is going on here. Van Gogh used the same techniques, but his art was always something radically different and always had a new idea to paint. It's comparing apples to oranges here.

Originally Posted by Link_315

If it looks aesthetically pleasing, who the **** cares how it's made it?

It's not really how it's made, it's how manufactured it's made.

Also, props to Ash for helping to prove my point. Thanks much.

[Vega]

It seems that to be a good sig maker, your sigs have to look like the same signature you made the last time with layers of filters, senseless abstract c4ds, and copyright images all in order to get a good 3-second "wow" effect. After the praise and critique, you make another signature or art piece in the same manner, only throw in some different colors and lighting effects in order to pass it off as something real. This vicious cycle goes on for however long it takes and I think it has to stop somewhere. Now sounds good enough.

Obviously people like these kind of signatures, and if the sig makers are having fun making then, then why doesn it have to stop? Because you don't like them?

It's not really how it's made, it's how manufactured it's made.

If it's good enough for Andy Warhol, then it's good enough for the sig makers at Zelda Universe. :]

People set up signature shops, and other people come in and request. Everybody's happy, so what's the problem?

Float your *yawn.*

[Necco]

I couldn't actually agree more with Alex. Back in late 2004/2005 there were a lot of different styles of signature making around Zelda Universe and it always led to something different and everyone being able to have whatever they want. Now it seems like there is just one style.

C4d's and letterbox borders.

I myself have never used a c4d and I have only once made a letterbox border and I found it horrid and repetitive. Art isn't horrible. Art definatly isn't repetitive. It's always dynamic.

I think people would find it much more pleasing if they all created their own styles. Sig making isn't only about the shop section, its about gaining experience and improving. Copying the same thing over and over doesn't make you better. Making your own style makes you the master of that style.

Vega: imagine if all of zelda universe started using ONLY Float your *yawn.* in their posts even though they could be more creative and have their own catch phrase and actually be something of an artist instead of copying and pasting the same thing over and over. I personally would go crazy and I'm assuming you would as well. That is how a select few of members feel. The whole "art" of signature making has been tainted by this letterbox and c4d junk.

[Wired]

Originally Posted by Ganon's daughter

Alex wants to stop the constant "amatuer" approach to signature making, and see the developement of TRUE graphic skills from the members who claim to have them. Instead of taking twenty minutes to make a signature, try three to four hours.

I'd say I spend a good hour and a half on each of mine that I actually want to work on.

GD, the first link doesn't work for me. The second website has the use of more advanced programs such as C4D or other miscellanious 3D art programs. Sure it could be pulled off on Photoshop but that takes major time.

Vega, you're amazing. XD

Ugh, now all this talk of making 'good digital art' makes me want to make a large piece.

[Coss]

Originally Posted by Ganon's daughter

Or this....

Shinybinary v2.1 - Art and designs of Nik Ainley

"Shinybinary showcase a stunning image repertoire from the talented hand of digital artist Nik Ainley. The self-taught Uk-based web designer claims heb has a need for knowledge and according to his modest biography he "won't stop until he has mastered all the tools he needs to fully realise his designs".

Goregous work. Can not deny it. Even though they look simular, you have to say that they are all pretty different.


Alex isn't targeting people who are good at signatures, he is targeting at the people who think that it should stop there.

Heh, and you don't realize that most of those pieces aren't even made in Photoshop, do you? They're made in a special program meant for projects like that.

[Nox]

Originally Posted by Vega

Obviously people like these kind of signatures, and if the sig makers are having fun making then, then why doesn it have to stop? Because you don't like them?

Change is needed for improvement, don't you think? Plus, that's the thing, they're appealing to the masses, rather than focusing on their own effort.

If it's good enough for Andy Warhol, then it's good enough for the sig makers at Zelda Universe. :]

People set up signature shops, and other people come in and request. Everybody's happy, so what's the problem?

Float your *yawn.*

Only Warhol didn't do the same painting every time. Speaking of which, his phrase "15 minutes of fame" could be very well applied for how long a cookie-cutter sig will look good for.

Originally Posted by Sora

Heh, and you don't realize that most of those pieces aren't even made in Photoshop, do you? They're made in a special program meant for projects like that.

Yeah, a graphic arts program. Photoshop is that too, so it really doesn't make a damn difference. I'd disagree with what you're saying too, a lot of great things can be made in Photoshop, it just takes actual know-how to do so.

[Nata'kar]

no idea what a c4d is, but i've never done a letterbox border. but either way, i agree with alex, when i first joined zu, there were like 90 sig requests a day, and each shop had a completely different style. now it's just, for the most part, a repetitive, overused, overrated style of sigs.

[Coss]

Originally Posted by Alexo

Yeah, a graphic arts program. Photoshop is that too, so it really doesn't make a damn difference. I'd disagree with what you're saying too, a lot of great things can be made in Photoshop, it just takes actual know-how to do so.

Haha, now you're just making yourself sound stupid. Photoshop is meant for editing and transforming images. Not making them. A signature is an edited version of an image, unless you are making an abstract c4d signature, in which you'd be editing that image as well. If you think you can make this in Photoshop, then obviously you are over estimating Photoshop. Photoshop isn't the only program Adobe has made to suit everyone's needs you know.

[Moop]

Well, Im going to toss my two cents from an amateur sig-maker.

Firstly, notice I said sig-maker and not Graphics artist. I dont view myself as a graphics artist, I view myself as someone who makes small works in photoshop and puts them on display for others to critique etc.

I do this all for fun. I have no desire to become a real graphics artist, nor to pave my own style. I make signatures the way I do, cookie-cutter and all, because a: its the only way Ive been taught, and I dont plan on forging my own path and b: because its fun.

I would try and come up with some abstract large art piece, if I found it fun. I find making signatures from renders, etc, what I already do, is fun enough and Im not too concerned about how unoriginal it is as long as I had fun making it and people who respect cookie-cutter sigs dont mind it. Its also something in my life that I strive to imnprove on, because theres nothing better right now, in my life, to motivate me to get better at it then making signatures.

Im done.

[Leminnes]

Originally Posted by Sora

****ing cool? I think so.

Repetitive styles leads to improvement and perfection. A artists style defines him. It would be like telling Van Gogh to try a new style.

You obviously know nothing of Van Gogh. He went through several Styles.

Before and After - Van Gogh's Early and Later Paintings

Try to research some before you say stuff like that, please.

Oh, and Van Gogh used vastly different techiques from different types of paint, to watercolors, to simple pencil drawings. All had different styles behind them:

http://www.vangoghgallery.com/painti...sunflowers.jpg
http://www.vangoghgallery.com/painti...ges/potato.jpg
http://www.metmuseum.org/special/Van...sdelaMer.L.jpg
http://images.artnet.com/images_US/m...11-10-05-3.jpg
http://www.hayinart.com/images/743.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth...arry-night.jpg

ktnxby

[Coss]

No, I'm not familiar with Gogh, and I never said that he stuck with one style. A style is the way an artist or someone does his or her work. Van Gogh and any other artist does their work in their own way, trying to get them to do something else would be trying to get them to do it in a different way than how they feel comfortable with.

[Necco]

Originally Posted by Sora

No, I'm not familiar with Gogh.

Then don't use him as an example? Cool.

[Leminnes]

Originally Posted by Sora

No, I'm not familiar with Gogh, and I never said that he stuck with one style. A style is the way an artist or someone does his or her work. Van Gogh and any other artist does their work in their own way, trying to get them to do something else would be trying to get them to do it in a different way than how they feel comfortable with.

How will you ever progress in life if you only do things your comfortable with? Sometimes you need to do things that are outside your range of confortablity in order to progress in your life or work.

[Ender]

Originally Posted by Vega

Obviously people like these kind of signatures, and if the sig makers are having fun making then, then why doesn it have to stop? Because you don't like them?



If it's good enough for Andy Warhol, then it's good enough for the sig makers at Zelda Universe. :]

People set up signature shops, and other people come in and request. Everybody's happy, so what's the problem?

Float your *yawn.*

QTF.

Originally Posted by Nata'kar

no idea what a c4d is, but i've never done a letterbox border. but either way, i agree with alex, when i first joined zu, there were like 90 sig requests a day, and each shop had a completely different style. now it's just, for the most part, a repetitive, overused, overrated style of sigs.

You joined in August of 2006, jackass.

[Coss]

Originally Posted by Leminnes

How will you ever progress in life if you only do things your comfortable with? Sometimes you need to do things that are outside your range of confortablity in order to progress in your life or work.

Now we're comparing a simple hobby with life? I'm not going to bother arguing with you, since you've got generally then entire forum to back you up. =/