An Explanation of Tiers as Applied to Super Smash Brothers

Let's see if I can make this simple.

Tiers
Tiers is the concept that some objects are better than other objects, if the objects have differing statistics.
-In the case of Super Smash Brothers, tiers would say that one character is better than another character.

Proof of Tiers
-In a fighting game, hopefully the character roster is made up of different characters, otherwise it would run the risk of being stale and boring.
-If the characters are different, they have differing statistics. It's not just speed and overall power, it's also the speed of moves, their priority, their options in certain situations.
-If the statistics can be quantified, 1 point of power = 1 point of power. 1 point of power != 1 point of speed. This is inherent of the design. Let's take a small example:

-Two characters are exactly the same, except one has slightly faster running, aerial, walking, and falling speed, while the other does slightly more damage on all their moves. They are not equal. The one who is slightly faster all-around has more options than the other one; they can play hit and run, they can approach from the air, they can move out of the way of the other's attacks.

Tier Lists
-A Tier List is a list ranking objects based on the best to worst in a certain ruleset, at least for fighting game.
-The Smashboards Tier List assumes that the characters are being played to their fullest, human-known potential using all tricks and optimum tactics, and that they are being played in a tournament environment (3 stock, no items, certain stages banned).
-A Tier List assumes that HUMANS are playing the characters, and that they are playing their characters to the fullest known potential. If I am playing as Snake, and I know his movest in and out, I am still not playing to his fullest potential if I do not know how to use Snakedashing.
-The Tier List does not mean that the character in one spot will beat the character on the lower spot. It just means that the top character will most likely win a tournament filled with those characters. For example, Snake will get his **** wrecked by King Dedede, but Snake is overall a better character to enter a tournament with.

Tier Lists And You
-Tier Lists are not absolute, due to human potential being able to grow. As new tactics are developed, and more tricks are found, etc., the Tier List will change.
-Unless you are really, really good at the game and go to tournaments and place fairly well, the Tier List will probably not matter to you.
-You probably should not choose your character according to Tier Lists if you don't care so much about winning. If you are a competitive player, then you would be advised to stay away from the Bottom Tier, unless the game is so well-balanced (Soul Calibur II, Street Fighter III) that Bottom Tier isn't all that bad.
-In most fighting games, Skill > Matchups > Tier Lists.

Smashboards Tier List
-http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236407
-Yes, this is a Tier List based on their ruleset. If there were items, I don't think the Tier List would not be that different, though. The character with the most movement options and overall best movement are placed near the top, and in an items match, I believe this is one of the most important things. I think that the big characters, such as Bowser and DK, would move down quite a bit, and Dedede would move down just a bit (he is just too good). Sonic would probably jump many places, because he is so fast he can grab items and throw them at enemies, and his Final Smash is amazing. Wario would still be one of the top characters, due to his ridiculous air mobility, his Super Armor frames, and his ability to eat items. Meta Knight and Snake would also remain one of the top characters, due to their superior movement abilities and powerful item-like attacks respectively.

Matchups
-A matchup is one object weighed against another object.
-In Super Smash Brothers, this is one character weighed against another character. A case of matchups being really important is this:

-DK vs. Dedede: Dedede has an overwhelming advantage here. Dedede is basically DK on steroids. He has the same reach as DK on almost every move, maybe even more! His hammer follows the "Have weapon, more priority" rule, and beats DK's fists. Dedede is as strong as DK is, move for move (and he can technically kill better than DK with his forward smash). Dedede also has an extremely powerful projectile that has strange properties (the Waddle Dees), who are adept at blocking DK's single-strike-oriented moveset. Finally, DK has decent recovery, but Dedede can wall of pain him fairly well, and thus DK's weight is somewhat unnecessary. On the opposite end, DK will have a difficult time KOing Dedede; Dedede has hands down a better recovery than DK, and his Super Dedede Jump's height and super armor will make DK's handful of spikes very difficult to utilize in this matchup.

Smashboards Matchup Chart
-http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226315
-As it stands, the Smashboards players are still testing. You'll see that the players of the different boards have differing opinions on the matchups. For example, if you want to find out what the Falcos think of the Falco vs. Meta matchup, find the Falco row, and look at the MK column. If you want to find out what the Meta Knights think of the same matchup, find the MK row and then find the Falco row. The numbers don't matchup (lol) exactly, but they are almost all off by just 5 points (which isn't a huge disadvantage).
-Remember, 60:40 is considered an even matchup, although the character with the 60 still has a small advantage. Marth has a small advantage on Game and Watch. So, anything in that range is considered even. G+W can still consistently beat Marth. 65:35 is considered a bigger advantage, but still winnable. 70:30 (such as Snake against the Ice Climbers) means the disadvantaged player should consider choosing a secondary to handle this matchup. 80:20 means you are probably going to win (Dedede vs. Wolf). 90:10 means you are probably going to rape (Ice Climbers vs. Ganondorf).

Cool... but there's not really anything to say.

Good explanation. Now if only we could find those idiots who are still saying tiers are for queers.

Although quite honestly the biggest thing for me in here is the link to the matchup chart. Hadn't been able to find that in forever.

Originally Posted by Talhoffer

Good explanation. Now if only we could find those idiots who are still saying tiers are for queers.

Although quite honestly the biggest thing for me in here is the link to the matchup chart. Hadn't been able to find that in forever.

Tiers are for queers, especially when you pick a character, basing your choice to where the character is at on the tier list. "Oh this character is top tier, therefore I'm going to main him!!!!"

Originally Posted by GECK~101

Tiers are for queers, especially when you pick a character, basing your choice to where the character is at on the tier list. "Oh this character is top tier, therefore I'm going to main him!!!!"

Alright, here's a little game I want you to play. Get a friend to play as ice climbers. Play as ganondrof. Tell your friend to only use the grab and down throw. Then tell me that people shouldn't atleast consider tiers.

After you have played the ice climber match, have said friend use pretty much every other character while you remain ganondorf.

Tiers exist, get over it.

How can a game be fun if you chose to use a character that has a natural disadvantage? Tell me, if you were to go buy a new TV, wouldn't you research the product? Make sure you would get a high quality image and all? Or would you just choose one because 'it looks nice with that silver plastic lining around the screen.' If you just choose something for aesthetics, you can and should fail. So why shouldn't people learn what character they could do best with?

Also, even when someone chooses a high tier character, they have to learn to use them. I for example suck as meta knight. My toon link is decent, not to the caliber of some people on this site, but I can hold my own. Now here's the thing though: If you look at just tiers, you miss the big picture. The important thing is the matchup chart. The fact is certain characters have distinct disadvantages. That's just how it goes.

Tiers are pointless. If you gotta go through a game, you shouldn't just make easy for yourself-- what's the fun in that?

Originally Posted by Zelda X Link

Tiers are pointless. If you gotta go through a game, you shouldn't just make easy for yourself-- what's the fun in that?

Smash bros isn't a game you can 'go through' and high tier doesn't mean 'makes it super easy'

If you want to make the game 'super easy' to 'go through' then use ike. He's the perfect character for anyone who wants to get through the game easy. If you want to develope skill, actually use a higher tier because they typically have a couple tricks that you have to learn to make them good.

It amazes me that choosing a character for its ability to win in a competitive environment is offensive to anyone. Is it really anyone's business why someone chooses a character? Is it offensive if I roll dice to choose my character? What if I like random? What if I only like characters that have swords? Where is the line? Why is it when my reason bumps up against "I want to play a good character", I deserve to suffer endless scrutiny?

I play as Link and frequently beat Meta Knights, Snakes, and Dedede's.

Tiers are an inherently flawed system, seeing as how someone skilled in an F-tier character can easily beat an A-Tier.

Originally Posted by Mr Mander

I play as Link and frequently beat Meta Knights, Snakes, and Dedede's.

Tiers are an inherently flawed system, seeing as how someone skilled in an F-tier character can easily beat an A-Tier.

I'm guessing you play against cpu characters and not online with people who actually play brawl well, am I right?

Also, MK and Snake are S Tier. Atleast know the tier list before you bash it.

Also, check Link's matchup scores. They aren't terrible. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226315 He does have a few inherrent bad matches, but 40:60 is still considered decently even.

Originally Posted by Mr Mander

Tiers are an inherently flawed system, seeing as how someone skilled in an F-tier character can easily beat an A-Tier.

Funny enough, you're 100% wrong about Tiers being "inherently flawed" because Tiers assume that both characters in a matchup must be playing to the highest potential, and a good Tier List will keep this in mind.

Thus, when one character isn't being played to the highest potential, the skill that the other player has with their character will allow them to trump their opponent.

I'm guessing you play against cpu characters and not online with people who actually play brawl well, am I right?

No you are not.

TheBattler, playing a character to their "full potential" is very vague. I have such a good record with Link because I use his skills in an unconventional way. People have asserted that I am "not playing Link right" on several occasions.

Originally Posted by TheBuzzSaw

It amazes me that choosing a character for its ability to win in a competitive environment is offensive to anyone. Is it really anyone's business why someone chooses a character? Is it offensive if I roll dice to choose my character? What if I like random? What if I only like characters that have swords? Where is the line? Why is it when my reason bumps up against "I want to play a good character", I deserve to suffer endless scrutiny?

This is so true! I Think some hardcore players find it unfair that you stand a chance against them with your beast of a high tier character and they just spent the past 2 years of their life learning how to play with Olimar.

Originally Posted by Navi the Fairy

This is so true! I Think some hardcore players find it unfair that you stand a chance against them with your beast of a high tier character and they just spent the past 2 years of their life learning how to play with Olimar.

You know olimar is actually an A Tier right?

Originally Posted by Mr Mander

No you are not...

Alright, then what is your code online? I wish to challenge you.

Originally Posted by Mr Mander

TheBattler, playing a character to their "full potential" is very vague.

No it's not.

Think about what a fighting game character is. It's a set of limits and boundaries of the game's engine placed upon the player in the game, and it can thus be known as a set of options.

Playing a character to it's full potential means utilizing the best tricks and techniques with a character to react in various situations, against certain opponents, etc.

Full potential is based on what we know about the game currently. But...

I've already explained that tier lists change based on what we, humans, know at the moment. Wavedashing was found in Melee about 2 months into the game's lifetime, but let's say it was found late enough that the competitive community came out with a tier list. After wavedashing would be found, Luigi would shoot up (probably jumping up from Bottom Tier to Middle or Low Tier), and Marth would probably jump up a few spaces.

I have such a good record with Link because I use his skills in an unconventional way. People have asserted that I am "not playing Link right" on several occasions.

Then...the people you play against are scrubs?

I'm not going to lie; I really doubt you use amazingly different tactics from top players as Link. Or maybe your style is really unconventional, but you would still get whooped at a tournament.

As an example, in Melee, I thought my Ganondorf was special because I put alot of focus on Ganondorf's game off the stage, and many of my friends were amazed at this because they could not beat me soundly in handicap matches since I would be just outside of their reach most of them time. But I went to a tournament and found out that Ganondorf would get demolished by most other characters off the stage unless it was against certain matchups.

Originally Posted by Mr Mander

No you are not.

TheBattler, playing a character to their "full potential" is very vague. I have such a good record with Link because I use his skills in an unconventional way. People have asserted that I am "not playing Link right" on several occasions.

This is hilarious. You have a good record with Link, eh? That says nothing about Link; it highlights the quality (or lack thereof) of the opponents you fight.

trying to explain tiers on ZU is pointless. "ZOMG I WON A GAME WITH LINK THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS CLEARLY FLAWED"

Saying tiers do not exist is ridiculous. Obviously some characters are better than others. Granted tiers should not be considered personal... Afterall I am a far better Wolf player than MK player, but in the large scope of things they do. Matchups aside, if a two players of equal skill play SSBB, one uses MK the other Luigi, more often than not the MK person will win.

Originally Posted by GECK~101

Tiers are for queers, especially when you pick a character, basing your choice to where the character is at on the tier list. "Oh this character is top tier, therefore I'm going to main him!!!!"

wow... lets not use hate words here people. christ.

Tiers prejudice makes me sad.