An Explanation of Tiers as Applied to Super Smash Brothers

And that is considered a pretty even match up.

Yeah, speed. Like I said, Ike has power, range, and weight up his sleeve. Not to mention his bair, dair, and jab cancel are godly good moves. In fact, Ike has the best jab cancel in the game according to Smashboards.

Imo Snake's Jab-Ftilt is better.

And that is considered a pretty even match up.

Meh not even, more soft countered.

Marth boards have it as 65-35, which is pretty heavily in Marth's favor. Now with lag... well Ike would definitely do better.

That's all fine and dandy. Tiers only really apply at the top level of competitive play. When you take offline tournaments out of the equation, well sure, my friend beats tons of people with Link even.

Originally Posted by DrFeelGood666

wow... lets not use hate words here people. christ.

Considering the fact that after this post was made several people used the word retarded and you didn't care.... I don't care if you think it's hateful. Something shouldn't be considered hateful just because it pertains to you.

Anyway, Tiers are real.
I don't really care about them though, because I don't play the game at high levels. If I played in tournaments then I would probably use a character that was "good" Like MK, Snake or Wario. But at the level I'm playing at currently I couldn't really care less.

I just wish more people would understand that. It confuses me that people are offended that their favorite characters are so low on the tier list. If you don't play in competitions, why do you care about the tier list in the first place?

Guys, any fighting game you will play has a tier list. Don't blame the people who analyze them, blame the developers for making the game that way.

But by all means, if you want to play a character THEN PAY THEM.

Picking a top tier game in a horrendously unbalanced fighting game (brawl) only makes sense if you want be competitive and win. If you don't want to be competitive, why do you een care about the list in the first place?


Brawl sucks ass anyway. Go play something with actual depth.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

Brawl sucks ass anyway.

What? Brawl is an amazing game. o_O

"Hi I'm Tigerboi and if it's not a fighter in the vein of Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, King of Fighters etc. I hate it, it's not a real fighting game"

You elitist, you

Jeff! There you are. I've been hoping to talk to you for awhile now. Did I ever tell you I always thought of you as my Ike teacher? You were the main reason I got as good with him as I am now, after all.

We need to play again, but I can't get my Wii online where I'm at. Stupid college internet...

Still, I think I've improved with all my characters since we last played. Particularly Marth.

(I'm Ranny if you don't recognize me)

Originally Posted by Jeff

"Hi I'm Tigerboi and if it's not a fighter in the vein of Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, King of Fighters etc. I hate it, it's not a real fighting game"

You elitist, you

LOL

Naw dude, it's not like that. I have mad respect for what the smash community has done for themselves. I mean, smash was never intended to be played in competition but they still made it happen without revisions or a creator that cares about them. Hell part of the community even said "**** you, we'll revise the game ourselves."

Melee was a pretty awesome game despite being broken as hell.

Brawl is just shallow and boring. Sakurai knew about the competitive scene and shrugged them off. He took away everything that made the game deep and challenging to learn. I understand the he doesn't WANT smash to be a tournament fighter as said in an interview.

If smash is infact a fighting game, brawl is the furthest the series has ever been from being one.

Haha, yeah I know, Smash isn't meant for competitive fighting. And if the gameplay didn't prove that enough, Sakurai's complete slap-in-the-face to online content does.

But hey, Smash is still cool. One of the best party games out there.

Originally posted by Crystal
Jeff! There you are. I've been hoping to talk to you for awhile now. Did I ever tell you I always thought of you as my Ike teacher? You were the main reason I got as good with him as I am now, after all.

We need to play again, but I can't get my Wii online where I'm at. Stupid college internet...

Still, I think I've improved with all my characters since we last played. Particularly Marth.

(I'm Ranny if you don't recognize me)

Yeah I knew who you were, and thank you.

Melee was a pretty awesome game despite being broken as hell.

How was Melee broken?

Pretty much in the same light that Marvel vs. capcom 2 was broken.

Meaning high level play was pretty much shaped by design flaws and things that weren't meant to be in the game.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

Pretty much in the same light that Marvel vs. capcom 2 was broken.

Meaning high level play was pretty much shaped by design flaws and things that weren't meant to be in the game.

Care to name those things that "were not meant to be in the game"? When have players ever played with any respect to "how the game was intended" or "how the creator wanted it"?

When the game doesn't give them a choice but to. Like Tekken. The developers actually monitor high level play and make adjustments accordingly in the next game.

As far as things that weren't meant to be in the game....I dunno.....every design exploit that was removed in brawl? WDing, LCing, JCing, etc.

Not that it not being meant to be in the game makes it bad.

MvC2 had a similar meta game. High level play was virtually shaped by design flaws that added a new layer to the game without tipping the system too far to one side.

Again, this does not make a game bad. But the fact that things like this were removed in the sequel is the argument against them not being intended.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

When the game doesn't give them a choice but to. Like Tekken. The developers actually monitor high level play and make adjustments accordingly in the next game.

As far as things that weren't meant to be in the game....I dunno.....every design exploit that was removed in brawl? WDing, LCing, JCing, etc.

Not that it not being meant to be in the game makes it bad.

MvC2 had a similar meta game. High level play was virtually shaped by design flaws that added a new layer to the game without tipping the system too far to one side.

Again, this does not make a game bad. But the fact that things like this were removed in the sequel is the argument against them not being intended.

'Tis true. Nintendo actually dislikes the competitive community.

L-canceling was put in by the game creators. It existed in Smash 64 as well. As for taking it out, I can only assume they removed it for the same reasons they weakened Link (even though they created it, they later deemed it "too good" lolz). Jump Canceling was useless. XD

Wavedashing was certainly the big kahuna, but removing it also illustrated Nintendo's fundamental lack of understanding of competitive play. While wavedashing was certainly a big part of advanced play, it was not what made pro players pro. Having flawless tech timing ("ukemi" in Brawl), DI (also in Brawl), and other things are what set apart the top players.

But yeah, of course much of it was not "intended". Hopefully someday Nintendo realizes that it is OK to let the players somewhat shape the future of the game. Everything got so bitter that it resulted in... TRIPPING. T_T

Originally Posted by TheBuzzSaw

'Tis true. Nintendo actually dislikes the competitive community.

What? Why? I find that hard to believe.

Why do you think they added tripping in a fighting game then?

What does the tripping have to do with anything?