Why I Don't Think Brawl Is A Good Game (Challenge to Talhoffer)

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

Okay. Lets do it then.

I'm on my way. Choose any character you want. Also, I should remind you again that I'm no pro with Ike's chaingrab.

Well I won 3-0. 2-stocked with Marth and Ganondorf, and 10% left on DeDeDe when I killed you. There was one time that you grabbed and threw me twice in a row, but that was because my ear itched so I took finger off of controls.

Truly, it wasn't a fact that I barely escaped it. I escaped it with a second to spare.

Now that you have played against a good Marth, you now see that Ike has a lot of disadvantages to him due to the fact that I almost 3-stocked you.

Originally Posted by Black_Mamba

They're hardly less clones than they were in Melee. They tweaked Ganondorf's side B and gave him a new up smash. That about it.

Then again, I don't want to create the impression that any single detail is my reason for labeling Brawl mediocre.

It's the aggregate of multiple details.

No, that's not the only changes.

Ganondorf's side tilt and down tilt were changed from Melee, and his up tilt and jab were different to begin with. His up smash is different, like you said. His forward aerial is diferent, his back aerial is different, and his down aerial is different. His side B is completely different, while his down B and up B have different, very glaringly different properties than Falcon, but still look and function similarly. His up air is the same, but plenty of other characters have a flippy kick.

Ganondorf's entire movement is completely different from Falcon's. He is MUCH MUCH slower running-wise, aerial mobility-wise, and when he's gaining or losing vertical. His rolls are completely different, almost all of his animations are completely different.

Ganondorf is not a Falcon clone any more.

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

Well I won 3-0. 2-stocked with Marth and Ganondorf, and 10% left on DeDeDe when I killed you. There was one time that you grabbed and threw me twice in a row, but that was because my ear itched so I took finger off of controls.

Truly, it wasn't a fact that I barely escaped it. I escaped it with a second to spare.

Now that you have played against a good Marth, you now see that Ike has a lot of disadvantages to him due to the fact that I almost 3-stocked you.

I was trying to chaingrab you a lot of the time in those matches, so I ignored my other techniques.

Originally Posted by Kitsuné

ranil, the framework on ike's fthrow does not allow for a chaingrab. a chaingrab is something that is inescapable no matter who is holding the control, and no matter what they do. when you 'chaingrabbed' before, that was because of poor DI/reflexes from your opponent.

Originally Posted by Kitsuné

ranil, the framework on ike's fthrow does not allow for a chaingrab. a chaingrab is something that is inescapable no matter who is holding the control, and no matter what they do. when you 'chaingrabbed' before, that was because of poor DI/reflexes from your opponent.

Originally Posted by Kitsuné

ranil, the framework on ike's fthrow does not allow for a chaingrab. a chaingrab is something that is inescapable no matter who is holding the control, and no matter what they do. when you 'chaingrabbed' before, that was because of poor DI/reflexes from your opponent.

I think we can all agree brawl is still a great game. If someone prefers melee its okay because they are completely different. I prefer brawl for its gameplay and characters. the online desperately needs improvement (I have not experienced huge lag but it is bad) and I actually like sse (other than the maze)

Originally Posted by TheBattler

Ganondorf is not a Falcon clone any more.

That hinges on your definition of a clone.

Given that the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other, the fact that they still share so many moves is weird in my opinion. Like, why did the developers think it would be a good idea to give them the same special attacks?

I'd grant you that they play nothing alike (nor did they really in Melee), but why even the aesthetic similarities? It seems lazy on one hand and random on the other.

Lazy? Against a roster of 39 different characters, only a couple of which sharing aesthetic features, it's not lazy.

I don't know why they decided to make them so similar. It fits fine, though. Falcon's moves all had a power feel to them, which works well with Ganon. But that's still kinda a moot point since they share very little in Brawl now, even when it comes to the moveset.

No offense, but you have a very shallow outlook on Brawl, which is why you probably view them as clones when they're really not.

Items are able to combat that imbalance...

Originally Posted by Double A

Items are able to combat that imbalance...

lol no.