Brawl Characters

My list is like this.
1)Mario,G&W,Olimar
2)Toon Link
3)Marth
4)Rob+Kirby
5)Ness/Lucas
I can't decide on my best character

I think my best is Ike, though others *cough*Kitsune*cough* think Luigi is.

I skipped right to this page in order to address the tier issues on the first page.

Tiers: Don't truly represent the characters ability 100%, they are mostly based on tourney placements. So don't take them too seriously.
For example, Link and Lucas are both "Low Tier", yet they are amazing characters. Better than Ike I would say.

Ike: Not great. I like him and he can be used well, but he is simply too slow for high level competition, and his quick moves become predictable. Go to a tournament, you will not get far with him.

Just had to say that, it's annoying to see people rely on the tiers so much. =/

I've always used Link since SSB. But in Brawl, I noticed how much faster Toon Link is. And since he's a clone of Link and Link is a so-to-speak "slow" character anyway, I use him.

Also in SSBM I used sheik a lot. She was my "main" character, but in Brawl, she's just a secondary character. I guess you could say I use Meta-Knight. Not that much though. I like Pitt too. Now before you say anything, I saw Pitt in the trailers and recognized him instantly. I wanted to use him as a new character and I do. But I f-ing hate the stupid & repetitive"B" attack.

I also use fox occasionally. It's the only other character I can kick-ass with and not get rusty from not using him in 5 months.

So I guess my list goes:
Toon Link
Fox/Sheik
Pitt
Meta-Knight

I mostly use Ike. I also like to use Link, Marth, and Samus. Everytime I play against my friends with Ike, I win. So I'm not really sure why everyone thinks he sucks. I guess they just don't know how to use him.

People say Ike sucks, but what they mean is: He's cheap. Same with Marth and Roy.

I personally think he's cheap & he sucks. But the "sucking" part is a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by Viral

I skipped right to this page in order to address the tier issues on the first page.

Tiers: Don't truly represent the characters ability 100%, they are mostly based on tourney placements. So don't take them too seriously.

No no no. Sorry, but you don't know what tiers are.

Tiers represent the concrete, which characters are superior. They are the idea that different cannot be completely equal.

Tier Lists represent those Tiers as we humans know them, based on a certain environment. Tier Lists assume a character is being played to their highest known potential.

Since the SmashBoards Tier List runs off of tournament rules, then that's why it is supposedly "based" on tournament results.

However, the Tier List is based on matchups and the vote of major, well-known tournament players. Due to it being based on matchups, the Tier List is inherently accurate to some degree. Due to being based on voting, the Tier List is inherently flawed to some degree.

Tournament results are then looked at as fulfilling the tier list, and MINOR changes are made based on tournament results. Tournament results have more of an impact on the Tier List by filling out a character's potential, by finding new strategies and techniques with which to use a character.

For example, Link and Lucas are both "Low Tier", yet they are amazing characters. Better than Ike I would say.

Hence why the Tier List is flawed.

But I will 100% disagree with you on Link. Link is an absolutely horrible character. His damage vs. attack speed output is horribad, and his recovery is one of the few that you really cannot recover with sometimes. Plus, he has the worse aerial ability in the game. The only thing keeping him from being as bad as Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are his projectiles.

Lucas IS a pretty good character, and it's one of the flaws I see in the Tier List. Same goes for Ness, although Ness probably shouldn't move much due to his bad recovery.

Just had to say that, it's annoying to see people rely on the tiers so much. =/

I'm sorry, but it's also annoying when they don't know what Tiers are.

Originally Posted by Ragnell

I mostly use Ike. I also like to use Link, Marth, and Samus. Everytime I play against my friends with Ike, I win. So I'm not really sure why everyone thinks he sucks. I guess they just don't know how to use him.

Do your friends represent the entire Brawl-playing community?

Have you been to a tournament?

If your answers are no to either of these questions, well...I can't do much for you.

I can score wins against my friends using Ganondorf. That doesn't change the fact that Ganondorf is a trash character.

Originally Posted by DekuLink333

People say Ike sucks, but what they mean is: He's cheap. Same with Marth and Roy.

And what does cheap mean? Does cheap mean the same thing to you as it means to others?

MY definition of cheap is a character who's just overpowered and much better than others.

I think that Meta Knight, Snake, King Dedede, Falco, Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., and Wario are cheap, because they are leaps and bounds above much of the cast.

I don't think that Ike is cheap, because Ike is a pretty bad character.

I'm willing to bet no one here is in the Smash Back Room, so I doubt anyone knows what they do to construct the tier lists.

Originally Posted by Kitsuné

I'm willing to bet no one here is in the Smash Back Room, so I doubt anyone knows what they do to construct the tier lists.

How much are you willing to bet?

I have found that my best 2 online are Ike and Captain Falcon...

Originally Posted by Kitsuné

I'm willing to bet no one here is in the Smash Back Room, so I doubt anyone knows what they do to construct the tier lists.

Well, that's not entirely true.

They said that they voted on it. :-\

And the definition of Tiers and Tier Lists heavily imply what they did.

Originally Posted by Viral

Ike: Not great. I like him and he can be used well, but he is simply too slow for high level competition, and his quick moves become predictable. Go to a tournament, you will not get far with him.

Hey, a Link got to the finals of ZU's first official tourney and he's third to the bottom of the tier list. If a character THAT low can make it that far, so can Ike.

Whether or not Ike sucks is merely personal taste. I think he's a great character.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

Hey, a Link got to the finals of ZU's first official tourney and he's third to the bottom of the tier list. If a character THAT low can make it that far, so can Ike.

You're still giving too much importance to the Tier List.

Skill > anything else.

Although, I have some misgivings of ZU's tournament; if it was done online, then plenty of factors go out the window, and skill takes on a whole new meaning.

Whether or not Ike sucks is merely personal taste. I think he's a great character.

But it doesn't have to be personal taste. Some characters ARE better than others, and Ike just so happens to be in the lower echelons as far as Brawl characters go.

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

How much are you willing to bet?

I have found that my best 2 online are Ike and Captain Falcon...

None of you - people in this conversation, not on ZU.

Originally Posted by TheBattler

Well, that's not entirely true.

They said that they voted on it. :-\

And the definition of Tiers and Tier Lists heavily imply what they did.

Smashboards likes to vary stuff up--there's an independant list by Ankoku on SWF using just tournament resesults and it's pretty different to the tier list.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

Hey, a Link got to the finals of ZU's first official tourney and he's third to the bottom of the tier list. If a character THAT low can make it that far, so can Ike.

Whether or not Ike sucks is merely personal taste. I think he's a great character.

looool

Online tournament means... nothing.

Originally Posted by TheBattler

You're still giving too much importance to the Tier List.

Skill > anything else.

Although, I have some misgivings of ZU's tournament; if it was done online, then plenty of factors go out the window, and skill takes on a whole new meaning.



But it doesn't have to be personal taste. Some characters ARE better than others, and Ike just so happens to be in the lower echelons as far as Brawl characters go.

^This.

What difference would it make whether it was online or not? It was still a tournament and plenty of people were surprised to see a Link in the finals.

I'll give you that some people might have lag and such, but tiers still apply. A good Meta Knight player will still easily beat a good Captain Falcon player online. A good Snake player will still easily beat a good Mario player and so on. I know this from experience because Snake and Meta Knight are the biggest troubles for my Ike when I'm online and I can defeat more characters easily as Luigi than I can with Ike.

Toon Link, Samus, Ike, and Luigi(mario's water pack thing bugs me)

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

What difference would it make whether it was online or not? It was still a tournament and plenty of people were surprised to see a Link in the finals.

I'll give you that some people might have lag and such, but tiers still apply. A good Meta Knight player will still easily beat a good Captain Falcon player online. A good Snake player will still easily beat a good Mario player and so on. I know this from experience because Snake and Meta Knight are the biggest troubles for my Ike when I'm online and I can defeat more characters easily as Luigi than I can with Ike.

It's not a matter of tiers still applying, but skill takes a different meaning online with lag. And that's even worse than tiers applying or not.

Only thing is, not every single person is going to get really bad lag the whole time they play. In fact, the chances of that are zero. I never get lag myself and no one I've played since I returned online has complained of lag.

Originally Posted by Lieutenant Lollipop

Seriously Ranil, if this is turning into one of those "Ike is my favourite, he's the best" threads, then you're in for a decent kick in the balls.

No ****, but an "I like Ike" infraction really needs to get added to the rules some time.

My favs: Marth, Ike, Link, Metaknight, and maybe Toon Link... (but especially Ike)

Why? SWORDS!!!

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

Only thing is, not every single person is going to get really bad lag the whole time they play. In fact, the chances of that are zero. I never get lag myself and no one I've played since I returned online has complained of lag.

A lot of the high tiers have various techs and playstyles which make them good that become unplayable in lag.

Besides from the fact that ZU's online tournament featured very few highly competitive players. Take any online Metaknight, Snake or Diddy from AiB's ladder at random and they'd probably have won the whole thing xP