Brawl Characters

I haven't played Brawl in ages, but I mainly use Zero Suit Samus. I just feel comfortable with her, as her speed is great, and her attacks can stun people, giving an opportunity to get more attacks in. Her projectile sucks, but it's at least good for stalling the opponent. Her recovery isn't half-bad either. I hate playing with smash balls while playing as her though, because in order to prevent the opponent from getting the final smash I have to become regular Samus, and I suck as her. There's a taunt trick which allows me to turn back into Zero, but it can be tricky to pull off, especially with button lag.

Meta Knight is my secondary. I'm not as good with him as I am with Zero, but I like the speed of his attacks, and his speed and maneuverability are awesome.

Originally Posted by sugarpoultry

The character doesn't suck in regards to the game and how epic he looks, but playing him online especially... yah he's not that great. But, he is middle tier somewhere. So he's not incredibly horrible.

>_>

I wasn't talking about how he looks or anything. I play Ike only because I like the way he plays, but he sucks in that regard.

I already play Ganondorf for his, uh, personality and same with Bowser and Snake. I just happened to pick up Wolf one time and liked it, which is why I play him.

And he's not mid-tier. There is a tier list released by Smashboards, and there are 9 tiers on that list. Ike is at the bottom of the 7th tier. Thats not the middle. >_> He's pretty horrible. But that list is flawed, anyway.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

In terms of the tier list, no he doesn't. In personal taste, I respect your opinion. Ike is mid tier, though, so he can't suck. The sucky characters are all low/bottom tier.

In terms of "tier list" doesn't really matter, but if we're going to play by those terms, then yes, he sucks as far as the SmashBoards tier list goes. He's in the low tiers.

As far as matchups go, which is the most important one, he really sucks.

I'm not going to debate to you about Brawl's gameplay, so I'll keep argument as far as character balance to myself.

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

Tiers mean nothing... I suck so bad with DeDeDe that it makes him look like a G Tier :O

Tiers mean alot.

Tier Lists have very small value, and probably don't mean anything to you, and they don't mean much to me.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

I meant Ike doesn't suck IN TERMS of the tier list. Not he doesn't suck in general because of it. I think he's good (but not great/awesome) in terms of the tier list, but in general, I think he pwns. Get my meaning?

Please don't take this personally, but most of you are giving me the impression that you have no idea what the Tier List is, does, and suggests. >_>

Anyway, he still sucks according to the Tier List made by people who give a damn (SmashBoards) to have a single opinion.

And he has some bad matchups, and in terms of theory, a character with a universally gimpable recovery and very, very slow attacks can be beaten by any character, as long as the player is patient enough.

I know what the tier list is. It's a list of characters rankings in how well they've done in in tournaments. Ike is in the middle, not low, so he is average/good, not horrible.

And yes, Ike's recovery is gimpable, but only if the person doesn't know how to get around that. I do. I don't constantly use Quick Draw, instead I counter sometimes and then use Aether, if I can. Aether can do something most down B moves can't in regards to recovery in addition. It can KO someone else trying to recover by meteoring them. I've done it a couple times before.

Not all of Ike's moves are slow and laggy. Bair is fast and powerful. Quick Draw is fast if you hit and if you use Quick Draw Cancel (cancel it out by stopping close to the opponent and using standard A attacks). Aether comes out pretty quickly too.

I won't deny Ike has bad matchups, but he also has plenty of good ones, making him an average to good character competitively. The the thing is, I don't think he's used enough competitively because people assume he sucks just because he's hard to get good with.

Oh for the love of god stop with the Ike sucks ****fest and accept that he's not as "sucky" as given off to be - especially since Smashboards (the people who "give a damn") found him to be superior to a good deal of characters.

Besides, I main Link. None of you are allowed to speak of sucky characters in my presence. Unless you talk about one that sucks even more.

^They did, Abyss? That's awesome! Way to go, Ike. x3

Another reason I main Luigi as well as Ike is that I grew up with the guy. I've played as Luigi instead of Mario or other characters in every game he's playable in since I practically started playing video games, and I believe one of my first series was Mario. Good ol' Luigi...I won't forget the good ol' days with him where I'd keep choosing him in SMB2 or doing two player in SMB and SMW just to play as him. ^^

Oh, btw, I mained Luigi in Melee too. Never played the first SSB though.

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

Tiers mean nothing... I suck so bad with DeDeDe that it makes him look like a G Tier :O

lawwwwwwwwl

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

I meant Ike doesn't suck IN TERMS of the tier list. Not he doesn't suck in general because of it. I think he's good (but not great/awesome) in terms of the tier list, but in general, I think he pwns. Get my meaning?

Luigi also rockz. I love Green Missile, Fire Jump Punch, Luigi Cyclone, and Negative Zone, plus his aerials are wicked. x3

lawwwwwwwwl

Originally Posted by TheBattler

>_>

I wasn't talking about how he looks or anything. I play Ike only because I like the way he plays, but he sucks in that regard.

I already play Ganondorf for his, uh, personality and same with Bowser and Snake. I just happened to pick up Wolf one time and liked it, which is why I play him.

And he's not mid-tier. There is a tier list released by Smashboards, and there are 9 tiers on that list. Ike is at the bottom of the 7th tier. Thats not the middle. >_> He's pretty horrible. But that list is flawed, anyway.



In terms of "tier list" doesn't really matter, but if we're going to play by those terms, then yes, he sucks as far as the SmashBoards tier list goes. He's in the low tiers.

As far as matchups go, which is the most important one, he really sucks.

I'm not going to debate to you about Brawl's gameplay, so I'll keep argument as far as character balance to myself.



Tiers mean alot.

Tier Lists have very small value, and probably don't mean anything to you, and they don't mean much to me.



Please don't take this personally, but most of you are giving me the impression that you have no idea what the Tier List is, does, and suggests. >_>

Anyway, he still sucks according to the Tier List made by people who give a damn (SmashBoards) to have a single opinion.

And he has some bad matchups, and in terms of theory, a character with a universally gimpable recovery and very, very slow attacks can be beaten by any character, as long as the player is patient enough.

You know things, sir. :>

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

I know what the tier list is. It's a list of characters rankings in how well they've done in in tournaments. Ike is in the middle, not low, so he is average/good, not horrible.

Uh, no.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

And yes, Ike's recovery is gimpable, but only if the person doesn't know how to get around that. I do. I don't constantly use Quick Draw, instead I counter sometimes and then use Aether, if I can. Aether can do something most down B moves can't in regards to recovery in addition. It can KO someone else trying to recover by meteoring them. I've done it a couple times before.

No, Ike's recovery is gimpable by any competant player with any decent character, pretty much. There's no "I can do this with enough effort/skill and overcome anything"--Ike simply can't. If you meteor smashed someone who tried to gimp you then that's their mistake more than your triumph, I'm afraid. :/

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

I won't deny Ike has bad matchups, but he also has plenty of good ones, making him an average to good character competitively. The the thing is, I don't think he's used enough competitively because people assume he sucks just because he's hard to get good with.

Good characters are the onesw used frequently in competitive scenes, so having a few good matchups doesn't make him 'average to good' competitively.

It baffles me why you speak as if you know when you know nothing about competitive smash, to be frank.

Originally Posted by Abyss Master

Oh for the love of god stop with the Ike sucks ****fest and accept that he's not as "sucky" as given off to be - especially since Smashboards (the people who "give a damn") found him to be superior to a good deal of characters.

Besides, I main Link. None of you are allowed to speak of sucky characters in my presence. Unless you talk about one that sucks even more.

Link suxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I can't respect anyone that mains Meta Knight. The character takes almost no skill to use, and he rapes the **** out of over half the cast.

Ike ranks 26th in E tier on the tier list. He actually went down from his last ranking. I can't view as a great character. He's a good surprise character due to being a weird character, but a character that is easy beat when you know him.

Originally Posted by TheBattler

Tiers mean alot.

Tier Lists have very small value, and probably don't mean anything to you, and they don't mean much to me.

You just contradicted yourself... This isn't some game of chance, this is a game of skill, so just because Metaknight is the "best" according to the tier list doesn't mean a Captain Falcon will never beat him.

EDIT: Abyss Master made it to the Finals in the ZU Tournament, and he beat higher tiers and good players. He is very skilled with Link... Again, you can't say a character sucks, only that the person playing the character sucks.

Except Brawl really isn't about skill. There are hardly any safe ways to approach in this game, and characters can easily escape combos due to the lack of hitstun. Meta Knight is the best because he can actually approach, easily rack up damage, hit most characters out of their combos, and easily gimp the entire cast due to his ungodly recovery. Captain Falcon has nothing but a decent jab and up-air. One person winning with a low tier character means nothing if no one else can do it, and considering most Smashers on this site aren't very skilled, Abyss Master makes a poor example.

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

EDIT: Abyss Master made it to the Finals in the ZU Tournament, and he beat higher tiers and good players. He is very skilled with Link... Again, you can't say a character sucks, only that the person playing the character sucks.

The list never says a low tier can't beat a high tier. The list is exactly what it is: a list of the characters best to worst.

I'm tempted to go Metaknight for the whole tournament now. (it would make things a lot easier--I just love Lucario and Marth too much)

Originally Posted by Kitsuné

The list is exactly what it is: a list of the characters best to worst.

Bah the Tier list just causes a lot of arguements

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

Bah the Tier list just causes a lot of arguements

The Internet causes arguments.

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

Bah the Tier list just causes a lot of arguements

It's more peoples' misinterpretation of it that causes the arguments.

EDIT - Or what Golbez said.

There's a SSBB tournament? How would I get in on it? Anyone know?

Just post in it while abiding by its rules.

And I don't care what any of you say, I know what I'm talking about when I say Ike is not as bad as people tend to say he is. He's underused for that reason and I know because I'm an Ike mainer. I think he's a good character and I stick by that.

I main Marth and Toon Link. I don't use regular Link because he's much to slow.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

I know what the tier list is. It's a list of characters rankings in how well they've done in in tournaments. Ike is in the middle, not low, so he is average/good, not horrible.

No, not really.

A tier list is a ranking system of characters in order of best to worst in a certain environment on the assumption both characters are being played to their known potential.

For SmashBoards tier list, the environment is 1v1 on safe stages.

Here's a link to the tier list:
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list

Scroll down to SSBB. He's 26th on the Smashboards tier list. 26/37 isn't upper half, and isn't that good.

However, I personally think he's worse. >_>

[QUOTEAnd yes, Ike's recovery is gimpable, but only if the person doesn't know how to get around that. I do. I don't constantly use Quick Draw, instead I counter sometimes and then use Aether, if I can. Aether can do something most down B moves can't in regards to recovery in addition. It can KO someone else trying to recover by meteoring them. I've done it a couple times before.[/QUOTE]

You're assuming your opponent isn't as skilled as you are or more skilled. I'm usually dead even with my good friends, and most of my friends usually at least one gimp on me by blocking my Quick Draws.

Not all of Ike's moves are slow and laggy. Bair is fast and powerful. Quick Draw is fast if you hit and if you use Quick Draw Cancel (cancel it out by stopping close to the opponent and using standard A attacks). Aether comes out pretty quickly too.

Bair is fast and powerful, but you can't use it the entire match. Otherwise then you've overused it and you're left without a finisher. Plus, it's hitbox is strange, so you can't short hop and expect to hit your opponent, unless they're Donkey Kong.

Quick Draw cancel is fairly fast, but it's very easy to block, and then you get shield grabbed or they can just hit you right back fairly easily.

Aether is a good recovery move, but a horrible move in combat. It's very easy to DI out of or block, and then you're left wide open at the end.

I won't deny Ike has bad matchups, but he also has plenty of good ones, making him an average to good character competitively. The the thing is, I don't think he's used enough competitively because people assume he sucks just because he's hard to get good with.

Uh, yeah...he rocks the worlds of Ganondorf and Sonic. >_>

I think he's used quite a bit competitively. Last I heard, he's one of the most popular characters (along with Captain Falcon, oddly enough).

Originally Posted by Abyss Master

Oh for the love of god stop with the Ike sucks ****fest and accept that he's not as "sucky" as given off to be - especially since Smashboards (the people who "give a damn") found him to be superior to a good deal of characters.

They found him superior to some really bad characters. Being better than a rabble featuring Mario, Captain Falcon, Yoshi, and Link is not a good accomplishment.

Besides, I main Link. None of you are allowed to speak of sucky characters in my presence. Unless you talk about one that sucks even more.

lol

My top main is Ganondorf. >_>

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

You just contradicted yourself... This isn't some game of chance, this is a game of skill, so just because Metaknight is the "best" according to the tier list doesn't mean a Captain Falcon will never beat him.

No, I did not contradict myself.

The Tiers are the real and concrete. The data of a Tier List are the observed.

Also, duh to your MK vs Captain Falcon argument. The Tier List assumes that two people have the highest and equal skill. Which is why the Tier List doesn't really matter so much. The Tier List doesn't imply that Meta Knight will always beat Captain Falcon. Some people give it WAY too much importance.

EDIT: Abyss Master made it to the Finals in the ZU Tournament, and he beat higher tiers and good players. He is very skilled with Link... Again, you can't say a character sucks, only that the person playing the character sucks.

>_> *sigh*

Originally Posted by Kitsuné

The list never says a low tier can't beat a high tier. The list is exactly what it is: a list of the characters best to worst.

I'm tempted to go Metaknight for the whole tournament now. (it would make things a lot easier--I just love Lucario and Marth too much)

Exactly.

Although, I would enter such a tournament with Ganondorf.

Originally Posted by Toon Flink

Bah the Tier list just causes a lot of arguements

No, misunderstanding it causes arguments.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

Just post in it while abiding by its rules.

And I don't care what any of you say, I know what I'm talking about when I say Ike is not as bad as people tend to say he is. He's underused for that reason and I know because I'm an Ike mainer. I think he's a good character and I stick by that.

Listen, I'm an Ike mainer, too. I used to be better with Ike than I am with Ganondorf, and when Brawl came out first, I almost exclusively played Ike until I learned how to play Ganondorf (which was my absolute intent).

And don't go thinking that you're special just for maining someone who "sucks."

MY number one character is Ganondorf. Ganondorf.

I haven't played in a while but I still use Snake because he's, uh, really good. Oh yeah and I'm using Sonic about half of the time now, but he's never one I would pick in a tournament.

By the way I have nothing against the Nintendo characters.

Originally Posted by TheBattler

And don't go thinking that you're special just for maining someone who "sucks."

Thing is, I don't think Ike sucks, so I can't say I feel special for it.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

Thing is, I don't think Ike sucks, so I can't say I feel special for it.

That's why I put it in quotations.

You're talk of how he's underused and bashed and how you'll stick with him until the end is what I meant.