Official SSBB Tier List

Originally Posted by WALL•E

Meh. Another tier that has absolutely no effect on me (except for those who are idiots and put me down because more than half of the players I use are from the middle down).



*Sneezes*

Pardon me. I'm allergic to bull.

First off, what Lord Golbez said. Have you ever had someone put you down for using a low tier character? If so, why do you associate with that person? I certainly don't put you down for using low tier characters. Why do you have this undying hatred for those who respect the tier list? You were clearly slapped as a child by a tournament player.

Second, you may not like what I have to say, but it's the truth. If you don't compete at a high level, your opinion on the tier list means little to nothing. Sure, it's fun to toss opinions back and forth, but if you do not compete against other competent players, what good are your words? "I think character X should be much higher." Well, as soon as character X starts winning, the SBR will be sure to move that character up. Aside from that, no amount of theory crafting or debating will suddenly make the tier list "wrong". The tier list is based on the real world. If you want to debate it, you might want want to come join the real world.

You have serious issues. You don't see me belittling casual players and attempting to define "fun" for them; why do you go out of your way to rip on the competitive community? You don't even do a good job of it. You fantasize about how terrible tournament players are without actually heading out into the world and meeting any. You, like most casual players I end up debating with (by their choice, not mine), are generally extremely hurt by being told how bad you are at the game. You think you know something about smash? Let's play online, WALL-E. Don't let your pride ruin this opportunity; get online and show me what you're all about. If you cannot back up your words, then please STFU and GTFO. The tier list does not apply to you and your friends playing home, nor does it apply to you attending your little scrub tournaments. Given that's the case, why do you care at all? You are, in essence, an American complaining about the laws in Russia.

We are here to talk about the tier list. If you have something against the tier list, express it in a civil manner; stop throwing around your idiotic propaganda and hate mail in hopes of rallying players to your cause. Act civilly, and you'll be treated civilly in return.

Yes, the tier list is based mostly on how well certain characters do in tournaments. This means it does not directly reflect any sort of opinion on the innate abilities of the characters in the game, and therefore does not make assumptions on how well your skill is with a certain character.

But this thread won't be getting stickied because a) tier lists by nature are subject to change b) there's really nothing "official" about this list.

Originally Posted by Dr. Fish

But this thread won't be getting stickied because a) tier lists by nature are subject to change b) there's really nothing "official" about this list.

The SBR has always been the authority on smash tier lists (given the fact that the world's best players are all members who decide on the list)... Where would an official list come from? Nintendo? (OMG LOL)

Originally Posted by TheBuzzSaw

Where would an official list come from? Nintendo? (OMG LOL)

Yes.

Game developers almost never design a fighting roster with the tiers in mind. It's the competitive community that discern who has the greatest chances of winning in all matchups.

I could write an essay describing why the SBR is qualified to make an "official" list... but I won't.... because this is ZU.

Originally Posted by TheBuzzSaw

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but those opinions are all wrong until they start attending competitions (and winning).

It is a fact that Toon Link deserves to be placed higher on that list. I don't really care much for the other misplaced characters as of now.

Originally Posted by Verxis

I wouldn't put TLink higher than Wario. What are your reasons?

The fact that I beat you with Toon Link when you use Wario majority of the time. And you are certainly a better Brawl player than I am (at least, last time I checked).

Originally Posted by Dark Link

It is a fact that Toon Link deserves to be placed higher on that list. I don't really care much for the other misplaced characters as of now.

The fact that I beat you with Toon Link when you use Wario majority of the time. And you are certainly a better Brawl player than I am (at least, last time I checked).

That is inadequate reasoning for Toon Link to be moved up the list. Characters are shifted around the list by having overall better matchups, not just defeating his/her neighbors. Even if Link proved to be awesome at defeating Meta Knight, Link would not move anywhere since Meta Knight still destroys 99% of the cast, while Link loses to 99% of the cast. Toon Link will only move if he proves to be better overall, not just by beating Wario.

Originally Posted by TheBuzzSaw

That is inadequate reasoning for Toon Link to be moved up the list. Characters are shifted around the list by having overall better matchups, not just defeating his/her neighbors. Even if Link proved to be awesome at defeating Meta Knight, Link would not move anywhere since Meta Knight still destroys 99% of the cast, while Link loses to 99% of the cast. Toon Link will only move if he proves to be better overall, not just by beating Wario.

The problem I have is that Toon Link is better than not only Wario, but Lucario, Donkey Kong, Ice Climbers (their chain grab isn't very effective against Toon Link), Kirby, and to a not so much extent -- Diddy Kong. With proper use of him of course. That's more than half the high tier list right there. Debate with me if you will with some of the characters, but I'm willing to say so otherwise.

If you feel that way about Toon Link, prove it by winning a few tournaments with him. I'm sure the tier list would change accordingly.

Originally Posted by TheBuzzSaw

I could write an essay describing why the SBR is qualified to make an "official" list... but I won't.... because this is ZU.

[IMG]http://iputatextonimage.com/wp-content/thomas-do-it-******.jpg[/IMG]

Hehe, thought it was the perfect moment to post this.

I'm joking though, you don't need to write an essay for us. Honestly.

One single person isn't significant enough to raise or lower someone on the tier list.

Maybe that explains why he isn't higher on the tier list then. Everyone is using someone else. That doesn't mean Toon Link isn't good.

In fact, Toon Link is one of my mains. But you don't see me complaining about his tier.

That has been one of my points for quite some time. A good part of the tier list is based on popularity.

I'm not complaining, but rather, suggesting otherwise.

It has to be at least partially based off of popularity. After all, every character has the potential to be better than any other character, depending on the skill of the user. It's to my belief that none of the characters are inherently better than any of the others.

Originally Posted by Et cetera.

It has to be at least partially based off of popularity. After all, every character has the potential to be better than any other character, depending on the skill of the user. It's to my belief that none of the characters are inherently better than any of the others.

With characters like Meta Knight in Brawl, it's hard to accept that as valid.

Originally Posted by Abyssion

At first, I was a little surprised that Toon Link wasn't placed higher.

On the other end, I'm surprised that Olimar is actually that high. He has excellent ground and pressure games, he has that annoying d-tilt, he can rack up damage pretty quickly, and he has great finishers. But so far, every Olimar user I've seen has been gimped/edgegaurded at fairly low percents.



Metaknight at the top? How "public" (I honestly can't think of a better word at the moment) is this list? Does anyone know if this list on on more that just Smash World? It would certainly explain a few things for me. More and more people - both new and old, but mostly new - have been turning to Metaknight. Not that this is much of a surprise. But on several Brawl sites, I've seen huge influxes of people going to Metaknight because (and I partially quote) they want to win.

Heh, maybe you should face my olimar

Also, yea I have been noticing a lot of people switch over to metaknight, cause they wanna win.

Also to the comment about sonic up there, you haven't played my sonic either

Originally Posted by Et cetera.

It's to my belief that none of the characters are inherently better than any of the others.

Do you know what Captain Falcons call Meta Knight's A Jab attack? A fortress.

Do you know what Captain Falcons call Meta Knight's B Tornado? An impenetrable fortress.

Originally Posted by Dark Link

The problem I have is that Toon Link is better than not only Wario, but Lucario, Donkey Kong, Ice Climbers (their chain grab isn't very effective against Toon Link), Kirby, and to a not so much extent -- Diddy Kong. With proper use of him of course. That's more than half the high tier list right there. Debate with me if you will with some of the characters, but I'm willing to say so otherwise.

Dthrow chain grab may not be very effective but IC's can Fthrow and Bthrow every character in the game. I'd say that TLink has an equal match up with the IC's.

Originally Posted by Dark Link

The problem I have is that Toon Link is better than not only Wario, but Lucario, Donkey Kong, Ice Climbers (their chain grab isn't very effective against Toon Link), Kirby, and to a not so much extent -- Diddy Kong. With proper use of him of course. That's more than half the high tier list right there. Debate with me if you will with some of the characters, but I'm willing to say so otherwise.

Now we're gettin' somewhere. I'm no Toon Link expert, so I really cannot refute any of these claims. If you're right, people will figure it out.

Et cetera., "potential" is worthless if it is never truly tapped. You have an inherent "belief" that all characters are equal, but real world evidence suggests otherwise.