Your Stance on Death

Opposed.

Originally Posted by Young Old Man

That sounds an awful lot like being hooked up to a life support system.

Yes, an extremely futuristic and perfected life support system, implemented with some technologies you wouldn't exactly associate with 'life support', such as nanorobotics.

Originally Posted by Light Speed

What about over crowding?

As life expectancy increases, birth rates decrease. Besides, we're not overcrowded. The entire human population could fit comfortably within the state of Texas. We aren't even to the point of living in vertical cities yet.

I don't have to worry about death, because Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior, and I know that I'm going to Heaven. JESUS ROCKS! And the only way to get to Heaven is to believe in Jesus. Everyone who doesn't goes to Hell.

I thought you died due to dying cells, I believe they begin reproducing more slowly at a certain time of your life. I was unaware that it was a trait.

And why do they begin reproducing more slowly at a certain point in your life and not repair themselves or continuously reproduce?

Now you get the idea.

With proper manipulation of DNA, we could make it so that the bodies of future individuals don't naturally age or decay (Or, possibly, make it so that the bodies of currently living individuals don't age or decay).

How can we preserve what we do not know? Define to me, what the mind is. Begin with the basics please, is it physical or non-physical?

The mind is the phenomena produced by the interactions within our brains.

You have the brain, you have the mind. It's as simple as that; there is no "mystical unknown force" that constitutes our minds.

Originally Posted by 3heartchallenge

Let's consider the first statement to be true.
Even if we could alter our genes as to not grow or die, then there's the matter of accidents, there's the matter of running out of food (we definitely need it if we want to be able to function, since it's our source of energy), and there's the matter of entropy (Energy will eventually not be "usable energy")
So if one single person could live forever, it would violate laws of physics.
Anyways, I don't want to turn this into a discussion of "is death inevitable", since it's not what the author intended it to be.

When I say "we could live forever," I essentially mean removing death by natural causes.

Whether or not all energy within the universe will become unusuable is irrelevant to whether or not we could (And should) increase our lifespans through science and technology; for all we know, it could be billions, trillions, or far, far many more years until the lack of useable energy in the universe becomes a noticeable concern.

The second point I won't argue as not possible. However, would you say you live forever if you made a young clone of yourself every 20 years? or are they new persons?

Of course they would be new people.

That's why I brought up the "artificial body" and the "preserved brain" ideas.

Even if all your processes can be turned to a machine, you YOURSELF will eventually die, which brings us to the original question "are you afraid of it?"

As long as you can preserve your mind/conciousness in some form, I don't see how "you" can die. If there is a way to retain our perception/consciousness when replacing our biological minds with a mechanical format (Which probably isn't possible, unlike having a preserved brain in an artificial shell), why care if our organic bodies are "dead?"

That sounds an awful lot like being hooked up to a life support system.

Some of the people here sound almost as if they would welcome the complete end of their consciousness/ability to think, which is silly.

But yes, it would be being hooked up to a life support system. Only it wouldn't be a life support system in the way we see it today; it would be one that would still allow mobility and the ability to perceive, thanks to modern technology.

I'm a no bull♥♥♥♥ man. I believe that your brain stops working and thus your body is not in motion. Thus, you die.
Though, I do not know of spirits or souls, I suppose when my time comes I shall know more.

Originally Posted by Andross

The mind is the phenomena produced by the interactions within our brains.

You have the brain, you have the mind. It's as simple as that; there is no "mystical unknown force" that constitutes our minds.

Prove it. There's an entire philosophy to this ♥♥♥♥. You can't even prove the mind exists, let alone what it is.

Originally Posted by Forte

Prove it. There's an entire philosophy to this ♥♥♥♥. You can't even prove the mind exists, let alone what it is.

There is no way to prove that the mind is separate from the brain or if it isn't; however, we all know that the brain is what stores our memories, controls our body functions, is where all the thought and problem solving processes occur, and all that good stuff. Because of this, it is most reasonable to assume that the mind and the brain are pretty much the same (Or, at least, the biological processes within the brain constituting the mind).

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Remember what it was like before you were born? Exactly.

That's pretty much it for me. The only thing of consequence for the individual is the subjective life experience; nothing else exists, and as such, life should be enjoyed as long as it can be, and perpetuated so long as it is not utterly painful to do so. I also tend to believe in a sort of reincarnation - not so much that "I'll come back as a butterfly", but rather that my consciousness is simply one of trillions of potential existences, and on my death, "I" will experience another, whatever it may be.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Remember what it was like before you were born? Exactly.

This.

Death is a state of nonexistence. It is forever. The human brain generates thought. Thought is energy--and though energy cannot be destroyed, you will not be generating any more thought after your death.

It terrifies me when I really think about it, so I try not to.

I've chosen living to embrace life over living to escape death. I admit that I don't like the thought of death being nothingness, it would be nice to continue existing in some form of afterlife. But regardless if that is or isn't the case, I'm still going to make my life and what it means to me my own. God(s) or no God(s). I'll try to avoid death when it's at my doorstep but only for the purpose of further experiencing life. If, I'm to die, I'd prefer it to be on my own terms. Not suicide, but rather when there is no longer anything I can do to escape it and after I've lived over a hundred years, seen the world, and made my own contributions to it.

Originally Posted by 8bit

Opposed.


As life expectancy increases, birth rates decrease. Besides, we're not overcrowded. The entire human population could fit comfortably within the state of Texas. We aren't even to the point of living in vertical cities yet.

The entire human population could indeed squeeze into Texas, but they would be slowly starving to death, seeing as there wouldn't be room for farms to support them.
The earth is currently massively overpopulated, never mind what would happen if everyone stopped dying. Right now, it would take land space equal to three earths to support everyone in the world if they lived in the lifestyle of an average Westerner.
We're most definately overcrowded if equality of everyone is impossible.

Birth rate decreases never compensate even closely to expanding population. If everyone was immortal, forced sterilization would be the only way to make it work.

The ethics of immortality or even just expanded life is something that has surprisingly not been brought up yet. A world without death necessarily becomes a world without birth, which is something I find disturbing. Without a constant supply of new, unique individuals, how can humanity grow? We would be stuck with the same people, the same thoughts, there would be no new and radical thinkers and doers to revoloutionise the system. Without diversity, the human race would stagnate.

Im not really scared of death, we all gotta die sometime.

I beleive that when you die, you get reincarnated as another human the second you die. I dont really tend to believe in all that hell an heaven mumbo jumbo, as I am a strong atheist, but I do respect peoples beleifs. Know one will ever know until its actually happeed to them.

Without a constant supply of new, unique individuals, how can humanity grow? We would be stuck with the same people, the same thoughts, there would be no new and radical thinkers and doers to revoloutionise the system. Without diversity, the human race would stagnate.

It's not as if a person is born with the ideas he comes up with and is stuck with them his entire life without the ability to form new ones, you know. If that was the case, scientists, artists, and so forth wouldn't exist, as their careers are based on exploring new ideas or experimentation.

I agree with those saying that nobody should focus on death-- enjoy life while you have it, because it's the only one you've got. As said in the other death thread, I fear dying more than I fear death itself-- you never know how painfully you're going to die. Or if it's even painful at all.

Humanity's focus on death is unfortunate.

Originally Posted by SkyDragon

And the only way to get to Heaven is to believe in Jesus. Everyone who doesn't goes to Hell.

Hell's gonna be full of some cool people then, we could throw an awesome party.

Originally Posted by Leonri

The entire human population could indeed squeeze into Texas, but they would be slowly starving to death, seeing as there wouldn't be room for farms to support them.
The earth is currently massively overpopulated, never mind what would happen if everyone stopped dying. Right now, it would take land space equal to three earths to support everyone in the world if they lived in the lifestyle of an average Westerner.
We're most definately overcrowded if equality of everyone is impossible.

Birth rate decreases never compensate even closely to expanding population. If everyone was immortal, forced sterilization would be the only way to make it work.

No we wouldn't. We could easily dedicate much of the rest of the planet to agriculture, and, as we already ship most of food, this wouldn't have much impact what-so-ever. Our current world-starvation/dehydration/disease issues don't stem from our lack of resources, but rather, that they are over concentrated among the rich, and that the rich have meddled with the land in which the greater poor live. For example, there was not widespread starvation in eastern Africa before the continent was artificially broken up into smaller nations, controlled by the European nation. This process interrupted the seasonal migratory patterns of the citizens of what are now known as Ethiopia and the Sudan.

And we aren't even living in vertical cities yet. Not to mention, improvements in transhuman technology will improve upon our natural efficiency, allowing us to survive on smaller amounts of food and water for longer periods of time.

The ethics of immortality or even just expanded life is something that has surprisingly not been brought up yet. A world without death necessarily becomes a world without birth, which is something I find disturbing. Without a constant supply of new, unique individuals, how can humanity grow? We would be stuck with the same people, the same thoughts, there would be no new and radical thinkers and doers to revoloutionise the system. Without diversity, the human race would stagnate.

Why do people think we're not diverse right now, or that we wont be capable of more than we are now when we're thousands of times more intelligent and efficient?

Over time, the life expectancy of the human population has risen, and birth rates have dropped. By your axiom that longer lifetimes and lower birthrates equals less progress and innovation we should have also steadily slowed in technological progress as time went on, but the opposite has occurred.

I have to agree with 8bit on this, that the human race as a whole will only continue to become more efficient as time progresses. Then add the factor of natural evolution to the mix, which, admittedly, could be either good or bad, depending on future events. This opens up millions of unknown avenues of travel for humans as a species, and by travel I mean in our journey of evolution and refining into a better organism.

On another note, I do believe that if or when humans discover the capability to live indefinitely, it will be a serious turn in a bad direction. I believe that it is the knowledge that our time here is limited that gives us the drive to get as much out of our lives as we possibly can. Without this limit looming over our heads, would humans have the ambition to accomplish anything worthwhile, or would that be the start of our decay?

As for the religious aspects of this, I personally believe in no god, and instead follow philosophies and principals based off of common sense and what I perceive in this world. Seeing as these are my personal beliefs I will refrain from going in depth about them. Dont want to be seen as preaching for myself . So yeah, there are my two cents.

There is a certain substance found within the body that causes death by accumulation, it is directly linked to cell death.

Cells normally regenerate, but eventually this trash substance causes our bodies to break down and die. I forget what it is called, but it is controlled genetically.

This is why some live longer than others. If we could manipulate those genes, it would be possible to attain very long lifespans and eternal youth. Functionally forever.


I afraid you are trying to apply logic to an illogical world.

The world is not working together. They never will. The world is already decaying, already dying. Humanity is a lesson in too little and likely too late. They let petty squabbles get in the way of the bigger picture. Every single time.

If people could live "forever", it wouldn't change a thing. They would still kill each other. Natural death really doesn't have any influence of humanity.

Originally Posted by Demigod_Levi

On another note, I do believe that if or when humans discover the capability to live indefinitely, it will be a serious turn in a bad direction. I believe that it is the knowledge that our time here is limited that gives us the drive to get as much out of our lives as we possibly can. Without this limit looming over our heads, would humans have the ambition to accomplish anything worthwhile, or would that be the start of our decay?

Nope, short lifespans aren't the cause behind our progress, as most people don't like to think about death. If people were constantly in a "I gotta do this before I go" mindset, they wouldn't be enjoying life, which would completely contradict the philosophy that so many of them hold.

So no, our concentration on progress will not weaken.

You cannot weaken from nothing.

What progress has humanity made in recent years that has done anything to prolong the life of the species?

The way I see it, the only thing humanity has done is equip itself with the tools of its inevitable destruction.

Originally Posted by Anann

You cannot weaken from nothing.

What progress has humanity made in recent years that has done anything to prolong the life of the species?

The way I see it, the only thing humanity has done is equip itself with the tools of its inevitable destruction.

What? Some of our biggest advancements have been in the last 20 years, hell, in the last two years. Contrast the difference between 1990 and today, with the difference between 1880 and 1900. What happened in the latter period? Well, the car has caught on... not much other than that, though the automobile is a pretty useful tool.

What happened between 1990 and today? We took the relatively small network called the 'Internet' and expanded it. What was once used almost exclusively by schools and businesses on a very slow 28kb connection, if that, is now a huge network who's complexity and collective processing power out numbers the human brain. About two to one. It's a network that the average, middle class, person uses every day on a high speed connection- able to play video, audio, games, and pretty much any other type of media at a click. I would state how much information is collectively held over this network, but it changes so quickly it's nearly impossible to do. IBM predicts that within a few months the amount of information held on the Internet will double ever 11 hours. It's changed the entire way we consume. It's changed how we've learned. Incredibly small segments of the Internet, almost insignificant in comparison to the whole, have permanently and seriously changed the way I live my life and the way I've developed- Google, Wikipedia, etc... Wikipedia by itself is an incredibly powerful knowledge extension product, and it has seriously impacted how I think about the world around me today.

And the Internet is only a chunk of what we've done in the last 20 years. Consider the difference in processing power- In 1990 we were capable of about 8 kiloFLOPS on a high end home computer. Today up to about 70 gigaFLOPS are possible on a high end home computer. That's about 9000000 times more powerful. Yes. Nine million. In just 20 years we have multiplied what can be possibly done in any period of time by NINE ♥♥♥♥ING MILLION. That is far, far, over 9000.

Now, imagine where we're going to be in the next twenty years; the next forty years. Within your 'lifetime'. It becomes very reasonable to begin to think that one's lifetime may never end- at least, not within this side of the next 1 trillion years.

Right and what have the wonders of the internet gotten us?

Not peace, not agreement. Just a forum for people to speak their thoughts, which in the majority of cases, is nothing but hate and intolerance. Oh, and porn. Lots and lots of porn. We have WoW now, though. Progress.

The world needs a reboot in attitude. Just because people can communicate easily, does not mean they will communicate constructively.

Cars have just gotten us into a situation where we have to drastically modify them in order for them to stop doing damage to the environment.

Better computers, and what do we use them for? Games. Missile systems. War.

Oh yea and what else have we made in the last 100 years? Nuclear weapons. Better living through annihilating others. Weaponized germs. Nerve gas. Guns and lots of them.

Where is the progress?

Where is understanding each other, and where is peace?