A Fear of Heaven

This has been weighing on my mind for quite a long time. I know it sounds UNBELIEVABLY ridiculous, but I have a fear of heaven. I'm mostly afraid because I can't comprehend it. Also, people always say that heaven is where you worship God for all eternity. Really? Is that really it?
In addition to this, the thought of a "perfect" place is quite scary. If the world were perfect, there would be no...excitement. Allow me to quote Tool:

Originally Posted by Tool-"Vicarious"

Cause I need to watch things die
From a distance
Vicariously, I live while the whole world dies
You all need it, too so
Why can't we just admit it?

skip some lines...

We all feed
On tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Now, I imagine that many of you are thinking "What the hell does that have to do with this?" Well, think about it. We feed on tragedy. If things were perfect, books would be pointless. TV shows would be pointless. Video games would be pointless. There'd be no challenge.
Every book, show, game, etc. centers around a problem. The problem is the reason for the existence of the show/book/game/whatever. Without the problem, the entertainment is nonexistent. Living a perfect life is not as entertaining as overcoming adversity.

Is there anyone else on this site with this fear?
Perhaps someone who has overcome it? This keeps me from sleeping at night and gives me nervous breakdowns, so if anyone knows how to get rid of it, please share some advice with me. I need it badly.

I actually often think along those lines.
Is there no more room for discovery in Heaven? One of my biggest enjoyments is learning and discovering things. Every time I read a science book, I get a nice feeling inside
Of course, one could argue, that in heaven, things are perfect for YOU, so if you like books, movies, and games, YOUR heaven would be filled with them, and you wouldn't have the knowledge within them...
Or... one could argue that once there, you wouldn't WANT those things, you would love the way things are there. Creepy, and you might hate that thought, but in the end, you wouldn't need to worry about it.

Don't you have more important things to worry about than eternal salvation?

Actually there was a Twiligh Zone episode where a guy though he had gone to heaven. Everything was perfect for him but he was bored out of his mind! He begged this other guy that made everything so wonderful to send him to the other place(Hell). The guy just laughed and said "This is the other place!"

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Actually there was a Twiligh Zone episode where a guy though he had gone to heaven. Everything was perfect for him but he was bored out of his mind! He begged this other guy that made everything so wonderful to send him to the other place(Hell). The guy just laughed and said "This is the other place!"

I have thought this way before but I don't need to worry my mind about it.

Its just such a confusing thing to me, so like most other people you just have to suck it up and hope for the best to happen.

Maybe in heaven you can't become bored, you won't have a mind and therefore you can't think about how something is bad, you can't feel bored.

You guys are thinking of Heaven in human terms.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Considering there are other realms of existence out there i always assumed we moved on to one of them. My personal theory, heaven exists outside of the normal flow of time and space. Therefore we become beings of pure energy in a type of next life.

Questions for you Neo: do you think you're going to Heaven? Why or why not?

What information are you drawing from that shapes your idea of Heaven?

In terms of eternally worshiping God, I can say it'd be unspeakably awesome. To be so close to Jesus, to talk to Paul, Peter, Gideon, Abraham and all the others just gets me ecstatic. And in terms of discovery, the Bible speaks of a New Earth and Heaven where we receive our glorified bodies. I could think it very probable there will be plenty to discover and learn as we expand out through the universe, unhampered by our previous shackles, possibly finding new life in Andromeda or something. We'll see.

Heaven is not good, nor perfect. Heaven, is devoid of all that is bad, therefore it cannot be good, because it lacks the contrast to distinguish good. So, in heaven, you will not know good from bad and therefore it is not 'good'.

I've thought about this before, every now and then. But I've come to a what I consider a pretty reasonable conclusion.

I will live my human life as I see fit and in a way I consider to be good and honest. Then, when I die, I'll leave my eternal soul or lackthereof or whatever there is, to God or Shiva or whomever.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Heaven is not good, nor perfect. Heaven, is devoid of all that is bad, therefore it cannot be good, because it lacks the contrast to distinguish good. So, in heaven, you will not know good from bad and therefore it is not 'good'.

My room is not cold, nor freezing. My room is devoid of all heat, therefore it cannot be cold, because it lacks the contrast to distinguish cold. So, in my room, you will not know cold from hot and therefore it is not "cold."

Your room is not dark, nor pitch black. Your room is devoid of all light, therefore it cannot be dark, because it lacks the contrast to distinguish dark. So, in your room, you will not know dark from light and therefore it is not "dark."

contrary to popular belief, you can have just one side of the coin. Cold is the lack of heat, dark is the lack of light. If Heaven is devoid of all that is bad, then it is good.

Cold does not exist. Only heat exists. There is a lack of heat, which we call cold. There is no such thing as darkness. Only the lack of light. Darkness, and cold are just words.

On the contrary, as Good and Bad are both human created, they exist on the same plane, whilst heat and cold do not, as heat is the only measurement, but both good and bad are their own measurements. A lack of good is not bad, nor vice versa. This creates a dependent contrast where one cannot exist without the other.

So, in the case of good and bad, since they exist on the same plane, you can only have one side of the coin(unless you have no side of the coin), especially since heaven is absolute.

Since it's absolute, and good is not good without bad, there can be no good in the absolute of heaven.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Cold does not exist. Only heat exists. There is a lack of heat, which we call cold. There is no such thing as darkness. Only the lack of light. Darkness, and cold are just words.

cold and dark both exist as concepts that we can understand. I can feel cold, or be in a dark room.

On the contrary, as Good and Bad are both human created, they exist on the same plane, whilst heat and cold do not, as heat is the only measurement, but both good and bad are their own measurements. A lack of good is not bad, nor vice versa. This creates a dependent contrast where one cannot exist without the other.

So, in the case of good and bad, since they exist on the same plane, you can only have one side of the coin(unless you have no side of the coin), especially since heaven is absolute.

Since it's absolute, and good is not good without bad, there can be no good in the absolute of heaven.

you said it yourself. Good and bad are measured separately. Thus, good can exist without bad just as bad can exist without good. In a world where only good things happen, you cannot say that good does not exist, and in a world where only bad things happen, you cannot say that bad does not exist.

I would consider a place where nothing bad ever happens as a rather good place, myself.

Originally Posted by erinys

cold and dark both exist as concepts that we can understand. I can feel cold, or be in a dark room.

They exist solely as concept so that we may understand them, that is their purpose.

you said it yourself. Good and bad are measured separately. Thus, good can exist without bad just as bad can exist without good. In a world where only good things happen, you cannot say that good does not exist, and in a world where only bad things happen, you cannot say that bad does not exist.

Good is dependent on bad, because without the other, they cannot exist as they are words meant to contrast with one another. Without the contrast of bad, good is unrecognizable and would not exist because it is no longer 'good'.

I would consider a place where nothing bad ever happens as a rather good place, myself.

Why? Then nothing good happens, there is no way to distinguish good in heaven because there is no bad.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

They exist solely as concept so that we may understand them, that is their purpose.

they exist in the same sense that good and bad do, making them relevant to this argument.

Good is dependent on bad, because without the other, they cannot exist as they are words meant to contrast with one another.

dark and light are meant to contrast with one another. Cold and hot. Left and right. Right and wrong. In a world without darkness you wouldn't know what darkness was or how it is any different from light, but that doesn't mean that light doesn't exist.

Without the contrast of bad, good is unrecognizable and would not exist because it is no longer 'good'.

in a world without bad, everything is good.

Why? Then nothing good happens, there is no way to distinguish good in heaven because there is no bad.

you would be able to distinguish between good and bad just fine, presuming you came from Earth first.

Originally Posted by erinys

they exist in the same sense that good and bad do, making them relevant to this argument.

Right, but in the way they exist, they are not relevant, because they do not exist on the same plane as their real counter part. Good and Bad are both just concepts, therefore they exist on the same plane.

dark and light are meant to contrast with one another. Cold and hot. Left and right. Right and wrong. In a world without darkness you wouldn't know what darkness was or how it is any different from light, but that doesn't mean that light doesn't exist.

Right, but for that to happen, light would have to be a concept, right now, light is known to exist. Therefore, unless it is not demonstrable that light exists and is not solely a concept, it would be known that light does indeed exist. However, this is not applicable to good, because good is a concept, not an object or particle.

in a world without bad, everything is good.

No, then everything is neither good nor bad. How would you be able to tell if it was good or not?

you would be able to distinguish between good and bad just fine, presuming you came from Earth first.

What about young children who do not understand this concept? Or Aborted fetuses?

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

No, then everything is neither good nor bad. How would you be able to tell if it was good or not?

because it's not bad!

at least, that's how I define good and bad. It works for me.

What about young children who do not understand this concept? Or Aborted fetuses?

what about them?

see, they might not be able to judge good and bad, but that doesn't mean I can't. I say, from my perspective, that if there are no bad things in Heaven it is a good place. There's nothing wrong with that, it's perfectly true.

1. Tool read Nietzsche. And then stole his idea of the joy of tragedy.

2. Why get so fixated on death and dying? You have no idea what happens after it. You can't. No one can. All you know you have is this life right here, so take it. Pluck the day, as Horace says, for tomorrow you might die.

Originally Posted by erinys

because it's not bad!

at least, that's how I define good and bad. It works for me.

Ah, but you just stated bad didn't exist, so you cannot compare it to bad. See what I am saying?

what about them?

see, they might not be able to judge good and bad, but that doesn't mean I can't. I say, from my perspective, that if there are no bad things in Heaven it is a good place. There's nothing wrong with that, it's perfectly true.

No, it's not true, because if bad does not exist in heaven then neither does good, because good relies on bad. Also, my point about the fetuses and young children is that they won't know and it would be very bad for them.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

Ah, but you just stated bad didn't exist, so you cannot compare it to bad. See what I am saying?

no, I'm afraid I don't see what you're saying. I said that a world without bad things is a good place. I then said that it was a good place because there wasn't anything bad in it. I am, in this instance, defining good as the lack of bad. Just because people in that world wouldn't know what good was (since everything would be good and they would have nothing to compare it to) doesn't mean that it isn't, from my perspective and in my opinion, good.

No, it's not true, because if bad does not exist in heaven then neither does good, because good relies on bad.

you know, I'm getting the distinct feeling that you're not listening to a word I'm saying.

also, since when does good rely on bad? I can do good things and compare them to other good things, or to a lack of good things.

Also, my point about the fetuses and young children is that they won't know and it would be very bad for them.

a fetus wouldn't know anything. That doesn't mean that nothing exists, only that nothing exists in the perspective of that fetus.