How does this even work?

John: That's true about how society gives words their meanings but that's kinda stupid. Haven't these minorities ever heard the phrase sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me? If so then just ignore the terms. I find nothing offensive of the N-Word(which actually means black) nor do i see why oriental(which means East) is offensive to Asians.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

John: That's true about how society gives words their meanings but that's kinda stupid. Haven't these minorities ever heard the phrase sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me? If so then just ignore the terms. I find nothing offensive of the N-Word(which actually means black) nor do i see why oriental(which means East) is offensive to Asians.

"******" is offensive because it has been used for centuries as a disparaging, degrading term for black people. People used "******" as a way to insult and discriminate against black people. From slavery to before the civil rights movement, "******" was used to show hatred towards black people.

It's easy to see why it's offensive. It's no different than calling a Jew a kike, a Chinese person a chink, or a gay person a fag.

Oni Link how would you feel if you were hanging from a tree dead with a posted sign reading "Die ****** Die"

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

John: That's true about how society gives words their meanings but that's kinda stupid. Haven't these minorities ever heard the phrase sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me? If so then just ignore the terms. I find nothing offensive of the N-Word(which actually means black) nor do i see why oriental(which means East) is offensive to Asians.

words don't break bones, but economic oppression starves children.

There ain't no rest for the wicked.
money don't grow on trees.
i've got bills to pay and mouths to feed
aint nothin in this world for free

Originally Posted by John

Not at all. Once again, see "queer", used to be an insult on-par with "******", now is used in everyday conversation.

I'm pretty sure I know gay people who aren't exactly thrilled about the word. Besides, "******" isn't allowed to be used in everyday conversation (unless you're black, I suppose)

How would that work? The KKK wouldn't have existed if someone hadn't mis-pronounced "negro"?

What I mean is that using the word, even if attempting to use it in the "good" way (whatever that is), can earn one a reputation for racism in some people's eyes.

No. Words have meaning derived from how society uses them.
"******" has been used as a severe insult with a huge amount of historical, social, and political baggage.

"Cracker" has nothing like that.

It's like insisting that "fool" is just as insulting as "retard". Or that "crap" is equal to "****".

If the word's so bad, then people should stop using it.

Okay i'm just pointing out that it's not inherently offensive.

Linguistics isn't exactly my strong suit, but last I checked, the word "******" does not mean black. Negro means black in Spanish I believe, and the term "******" uprooted through mispronunciations and accents, I do believe.

Forte: Wait i thought we were talking about...oh! I thought we were talking about the word you said not the * word.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

I'm pretty sure I know gay people who aren't exactly thrilled about the word. Besides, "******" isn't allowed to be used in everyday conversation (unless you're black, I suppose)

That's why it's in the process of being reclaimed.

A word cannot, overnight, go from "Most offensive in a language" to "acceptable to use in everyday conversation."

"******" is on its way there, but it'll take time.

What I mean is that using the word, even if attempting to use it in the "good" way (whatever that is), can earn one a reputation for racism in some people's eyes.

But that's not what the OP was talking about. He seemed to be under the impression that people using a word that was once discriminatory turns decent people into racists. Not that it makes others see them as racist, but that it actually alters their views on race equality.

If the word's so bad, then people should stop using it.

Or they could make it so that it isn't so bad.

Why is it such a terrible thing that there's a movement to remove the negative connotations from a word? Should we all stop using "damn" because, sixty years back, it was ridiculously offensive?

Originally Posted by John

That's why it's in the process of being reclaimed.

A word cannot, overnight, go from "Most offensive in a language" to "acceptable to use in everyday conversation."

"******" is on its way there, but it'll take time.


But that's not what the OP was talking about. He seemed to be under the impression that people using a word that was once discriminatory turns decent people into racists. Not that it makes others see them as racist, but that it actually alters their views on race equality.


Or they could make it so that it isn't so bad.

Why is it such a terrible thing that there's a movement to remove the negative connotations from a word? Should we all stop using "damn" because, sixty years back, it was ridiculously offensive?

You may have convinced me. I shall reserve judgment, but I do feel that it is somewhat hypocritical for some people to use the word in an attempt to make it positive, and yet not allow others to do the same because they're descended from the enemy. Or look like people descended from the enemy (I'm pretty sure I'm not descended from ANYONE who had ANYTHING to do with slavery or the oppression of black people, for example).

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

You may have convinced me. I shall reserve judgment, but I do feel that it is somewhat hypocritical for some people to use the word in an attempt to make it positive, and yet not allow others to do the same because they're descended from the enemy.

Honestly, I don't know about him, but I live in Flint....a place where black's are quite the demographic. I use it the same way they do, and nobody has ever gotten slightly upset at me for it. And if they did, they could tell me and I'd be sure not to say it around them because, well, they feel uncomfortable with it. From what I've experienced, they do allow others to do the same, but that's just it, many don't do it the same. They come off as ignorant or racist. Not only have I been one of the people who do it, but on multiple occasions, in classes, the entire class gets in a discussion and the hefty majority of black people agree that they don't care if it's used the same way.

Originally Posted by Forte

Honestly, I don't know about him, but I live in Flint....a place where black's are quite the demographic. I use it the same way they do, and nobody has ever gotten slightly upset at me for it. And if they did, they could tell me and I'd be sure not to say it around them because, well, they feel uncomfortable with it. From what I've experienced, they do allow others to do the same, but that's just it, many don't do it the same. They come off as ignorant or racist. Not only have I been one of the people who do it, but on multiple occasions, in classes, the entire class gets in a discussion and the hefty majority of black people agree that they don't care if it's used the same way.

Stories like that make me happy about the future.

Originally Posted by John

Not at all. Once again, see "queer", used to be an insult on-par with "******", now is used in everyday conversation.

Does that have to do with race? It has to do with orientation, not only that, I hear a lot more Black people using the term or even saying "Nigga you gay" to my face.
Is that alright?

Originally Posted by John

How would that work? The KKK wouldn't have existed if someone hadn't mis-pronounced "negro"?

Yeah, but who came up with cracker? Certainly not white people, Negro is spanish for black, ****** is dirogitory for a race. Do you see white people going around and segregating the word, and beating up black people for using it, or yelling at them?

No. Words have meaning derived from how society uses them.
"******" has been used as a severe insult with a huge amount of historical, social, and political baggage.
"Cracker" has nothing like that.

So basically you're saying, if I made a word that was meant to be an insult, but it wouldn't matter just because it has no history? the word can't take offense to be labeled something that was intended to be dirogitory? Just because it has no historical background? don't you believe that, that word that was intended to be an insult, would have no meaning, just because it's not historic or official, even though I intended it to be an insult? you're making no sense.

It's like insisting that "fool" is just as insulting as "retard". Or that "crap" is equal to "****".

I'm not arguing the word meanings, if it's an insult it's and insult, I don't understand how it can be an insult from one person, but a term of indearment from another, In my experience...I'd have to say that's segregation, not only that, but assuming that when a white person says it, it's automatically bad, no matter what, I also sense some steriotism, and a lot of judgement..
Not only that, but do any of those refer to racism? I don't understand where you're going with this.
People that complain the most about it, continue to use it constintly?


So, why continue this?

Originally Posted by Furii

Does that have to do with race? It has to do with orientation,

So? In the end they both refer to discrimination.

not only that, I hear a lot more Black people using the term

So?

or even saying "Nigga you gay" to my face. Is that alright?

"You gay"? Not alright. "Nigga"? I fail to see why it isn't.

Yeah, but who came up with cracker? Certainly not white people,

Actually, yes.
As far as I can tell the term started out as a semi-affectionate nickname for residents of Florida or Georgia. The modern use evolved from that.

Negro is spanish for black, ****** is dirogitory for a race. Do you see white people going around and segregating the word,

Yes.

and beating up black people for using it, or yelling at them?

No.
But I bet I would if people with black skin went around calling others "c***s", say. Because, once again, there's nowhere near as much malice and baggage attached to "cracker" as there is to "******".

So basically you're saying, if I made a word that was meant to be an insult, but it wouldn't matter just because it has no history?

You're a Flooper.

There. I invented a word specifically to be the worst insult ever conceived of. Yet it lacks the punch of any other, doesn't it? Why would that be?

the word can't take offense to be labeled something that was intended to be dirogitory? Just because it has no historical background? don't you believe that, that word that was intended to be an insult, would have no meaning, just because it's not historic or official, even though I intended it to be an insult? you're making no sense.

Do you honestly dispute that some words are stronger than others? Are you honestly trying to argue that "crap" is the same as "s***"? That "damn" is the same as "f***"?

I'm not arguing the word meanings, if it's an insult it's and insult, I don't understand how it can be an insult from one person, but a term of indearment from another,

Then look around a bit more. All sorts of words get used that way. People will affectionately call each other "b******s", but calling a stranger that is very insulting.

In my experience...I'd have to say that's segregation, not only that, but assuming that when a white person says it, it's automatically bad, no matter what, I also sense some steriotism, and a lot of judgement..

"Steriotism"?

Anyways, since white people got to use the word for a few centuries, and it was a universally negative term for the whole time, I think it's easy enough to see why a white person using it is, you know, rather bad, while a black person doing so isn't.

Originally Posted by Furii

but assuming that when a white person says it, it's automatically bad, no matter what, I also sense some steriotism, and a lot of judgement..

*COUGH*FORTE USES IT ON AN ALMOST DAILY BASIS TO REFER TO HIS BLACK FRIENDS AND THEY DON'T MIND AT ALL *COUGH*
*COUGH* IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME AS WHEN YOU AND YOUR FRIEND PLAYFULLY MAKE FUN OF EACH OTHER ASSUMING I'M NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO DOES THAT WITH HIS FRIENDS *COUGH*
*COUGH* I EVEN USE IT ON PEOPLE WHO AREN'T FRIENDS AND THEY STILL DON'T MIND *COUGH*

More seriously, though, you're wrong about that. I'm white. I say it. Nobody has ever minded, and if they have, they didn't speak a word to anybody, that includes me.

Originally Posted by Silver

It's easy to see why it's offensive. It's no different than calling a Jew a kike, a Chinese person a chink

Damn, I must have been pretty sheltered, 'cause I've never heard those two as far as I can remember. (Edit: Does this mean I can't use "chink chink" as a sound effect for chains in comics anymore without someone *****ing about it?)

Anyway, in my cartoon comics/animations there are a specific bunch of characters I always have throw around words like "******" and "fag", as satire for this very controversy. It's amusing when people get offended by innocuous words (nobody-- besides the Westboro Baptist Church-- uses words like these seriously, do they?), so I love having these characters go around yelling "fag" at things because it's funny. I'd hope that when people take a step back and look at themselves getting offended at stuff like this, they'd realize how ridiculous it is.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

Anyway, in my cartoon comics/animations there are a specific bunch of characters I always have throw around words like "******" and "fag", as satire for this very controversy. It's amusing when people get offended by innocuous words (nobody-- besides the Westboro Baptist Church-- uses words like these seriously, do they?), so I love having these characters go around yelling "fag" at things because it's funny. I'd hope that when people take a step back and look at themselves getting offended at stuff like this, they'd realize how ridiculous it is.

But it isn't ridiculous.

Words have the meaning that society gives them. In this case, "Fag" and "******" have very strong meanings (and plenty of people still use them seriously. Especially in the Bible Belt.)

Nothing odd or funny about being offended by them.

Originally Posted by John

But it isn't ridiculous.

Words have the meaning that society gives them. In this case, "Fag" and "******" have very strong meanings (and plenty of people still use them seriously. Especially in the Bible Belt.)

Nothing odd or funny about being offended by them.

Ehhh... it must be my area, then, because I basically never hear of anyone using them with the intent of demeaning someone. But part of me still really believes that everyone needs to take a chill pill when it comes to things like that. I'd think that using the word is pretty meaningless nowadays. No one treated people differently because people called them names-- people called them names because they treated them differently. The name went with the harassment, it doesn't harbor all of the harassment. That's my biggest point, that the actions are more to blame than the words.

Please try to stay away from personal attacks in SD, and please try to stay on topic.

Originally Posted by Discussion

It was a hypothetical situation meant to be answered in the abstract, dear.

I know, discussion. I know.

Anyway, in my experience living in the US south the word is still used in a serious and racist context by Caucasians. For example, when one of the students who went to my former high school died in a car collision the response from one of the white students was something along the lines of, "At least there's one less ****** to deal with".

Now, I live in the northern tip of the bible belt, directly adjacent to a liberal college town, and not far from two community colleges, one of which is rated fifth in the nation. I can't imagine how present racism still is in say, rural Alabama.

Also, to insist that the BPP is somehow racist is laughable. The NBPP, perhaps, but they share no relation to the original, and is criticized by many of the members of the original.