God says: All gay-haters should be burned to death.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

But, I'm sure that if you were an omnipotent being, who was all by yourself, you'd be looking for some company some time or another.

but there is a wee bit of a difference between a companion and an obediant servant created to do your bidding.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

de⋅sire  /dɪˈzaɪər/ verb, -sired, -sir⋅ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to wish or long for; crave; want.
2. to express a wish to obtain; ask for; request.

–noun 3. a longing or craving, as for something that brings satisfaction or enjoyment: a desire for fame.
4. an expressed wish; request.
5. something desired.
6. sexual appetite or a sexual urge.

I don't understand the point here, are you implying that homosexuality is nothing more than a sexual appetite/urge?

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

well that's strange.
I've read the bible, and nowhere in it did I see the word "homosexual".
what version of the bible are you quoting here?

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

de⋅sire  /dɪˈzaɪər/ verb, -sired, -sir⋅ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to wish or long for; crave; want.
2. to express a wish to obtain; ask for; request.

–noun 3. a longing or craving, as for something that brings satisfaction or enjoyment: a desire for fame.
4. an expressed wish; request.
5. something desired.
6. sexual appetite or a sexual urge.

Using that direct definition indeed, but that's not what your sentence structure defined.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

So now I'm an idiot?
How does what I said even relate to anything you just said?

Read the second part of my reply to you.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Again, what does this have to do with anything?

It has everything to do with it!

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Being a Christian means following ALL of God's commandments.
Not deciding which ones suit your lifestyle, and going with those.

Then why do you wear mixed fibers? Why do you eat shellfish? Why do you eat crop rotated food? Why don't you plan on killing your disobedient children?

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Violence and sex are the two main themes when it comes to OCD.

Not really. My lighter OCD's that I had as younger had nothing to do with it - I don't think I properly knew was sex was when I had them.
Same with most OCDs, in fact - plenty of them are about keeping overly clean.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

I wasn't comparing homosexuality to serial killing, I was talking about obsessive compulsive disorder.

Alright.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

I'm trying to put things in perspective, but none of you are willing to see that- you are only looking for anything in my posts that you can use against me. Gluttony is a common sin that is "accepted" in most Churches today, and it is just as wrong as any other sin, you just see it more often than others.

All sin is equal.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

If Paul wanted to refer to homosexual behavior, he would have used the word "paiderasste" in the literal scripture. That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Explain.

I don't follow the Bible, so using it in a debate is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

It's going against God's plan for our lives.

Prove it.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

No He doesn't.
He created Hell, as a place for all the people that choose Satan as their leader, yes. However, He gave people a choice to decide on where they want to go.

Who calls the final judgment, according to the bible? God. Therefore, he sends them to hell, as he created it.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Safer said: "My one religion out of thousands couldn't possibly be wrong!"
So I was simply saying that because there's so many people that follow it- there has to be some reason that many people claim to be Christians.

There has to be some reason that there's more practicing Muslims than Christians. There has to be some reason that the population in China is the highest. There has to be some reason that Europe is technologically superior to Africa.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

How did I "seem to forget" anything?

I have all the rights to move back when you preach.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

I'm afraid you are starting to lose all credibility with me.
I have on idea where you are getting the nerve to post much of what you are posting.

The problem is how you dare saying that they aren't true Christians, when they are as much Christian as you are.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Why? I don't even know your dad.
What does any of this have to do with him anyway?

Put it this way: He was a devout Christian. He died two and a half years ago.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Satan toyed with the false desires of many which led to the spawn of homosexuality, which is against God's Will for us, thus, it is sin because it is disobeying God.

Do animals have souls?
If not, how do you explain homosexual behavior among thousands of species? This is the question I'm most interested to get an answer for, Sahrrie.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

I believe that it is Satan who is responsible for homosexuality. I mean, Satan can only work with what is already inside of us. He cannot put things or desires in us, but he can sure make the ones that are already there stronger.

I, for instance, have OCD.
OCD is a disorder in which one has an odd passing thought (for instance, if you see a knife, and imagine stabbing someone with it) and dwells on said thought, trying to rationalize and make sense of it. The person with OCD will think about the thought and be given to anxiety and depression over it because they think that because they had that fleeting thought, they MUST be a serial killer, and so on so forth. This doesn't necessarily mean they want to stab someone with the knife, it just means they had a strange passing thought.

I was taught, that someone without OCD will get similar, maybe even exact same thoughts that someone with OCD will get, however, they are able to dimiss the thought and move on with their lives.

OCDers can even get homosexual thoughts, too.
Imagine that someone gets a homosexual thought
Then here comes Satan, and he entertains this thought, to where it eventually leads to a desire, and then that person goes about seeking to fulfill that desire.

See where I'm going?
It wasn't necessarily that the person wanted to be gay, it's simply that Satan toyed around with their desires.

That's how I see it anyway.

Satan will look for any way that he possibly can to cause people to sin against God.

...
I hope that helps you out.
Any more questions, and I'd be glad to assist! (:

http://www.ocfoundation.org/what-is-ocd.html

OCD is moreso associated with constant handwashing, organizing things to be straight or even, and rituals like turning light switches down instead of up.

Also, the way you worded that post implies that anyone can have some "urge" to be gay. Homosexuality is a sexual attraction to the same gender, not some sudden "impulse" for gay buttsex.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
[I]"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."[I]

The literal translation of the verse says "effeminate" rather than "homosexuals."

Although I guess you'll argue that I'm not using the "true" version of the Bible.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

There are very few today who are truly following in the path that Jesus laid out for us. If only people knew just how powerful God is, and how much He can do. The people that you speak of wouldn't be "messed up".

If anything, that knowledge makes it worse. They ask God for help, the urges don't go away, they conclude that God doesn't care for them, or they've offended him, or whatever.

Exactly. That's why they need God's assistance.

Save that "God's assistance" never seems to help.

That's Satan!

No, that's people. That's what happens when a culture demonizes people for things that they cannot help.

Humans do terrible and wonderful things all the time. If we accept credit for only the good then we increase the chances that we can become monsters. Understand just how much harm, just how much evil, a human being can do. Know it, and defend yourself against ever turning into a person (not monster, person) who could do any of them.

As for Satan, the modern interpretation of him is, well, modern. The ancient Jews would have no idea who you were talking about if you tried to describe him to them.

Biblically Satan is "the accuser", he's God's prosecuting attorney. When people are to be judged Satan is the one who argues that they should be damned, while the people argue why they should not be.

At least traditionally he could tempt people, but he could not alter their thoughts or feelings, since that wouldn't work at all with the trial.

As such, he's no more evil than any other lawyer, and he doesn't seem to care overmuch about his conviction rate. He'll use every trick he knows, but he's not malicious.

Or so my understanding of the traditional version goes.

This "enemy of God and all good things" view was tacked on much later, likely after Judaism came into contact with Zoroastrianism, which was the first really big religion to endorse an eternal war between good and evil.

He puts those thoughts in their heads to make them think that because they are having such a hard time with their homosexuality, God must hate them! When in reality, God loves them very much, and would do anything for them, if they would only sincerely come to Him for help.

These people can end up as, well, broken husks. (Not all do, of course, but even one who does is sufficient for my purposes) I've no doubt that they've begged God for help and not gotten it.

How is it not?

Can you turn yourself gay? Right now?
What about giving yourself a fetish that you do not currently have?
What about getting rid of a fetish that you currently have?

Both orientation and fetishes can and do change over time, but not because you want them to.

If they truly want to please God, then they will ask for His assistance.

What makes you think they haven't?

Above all you are to love God more than any man or woman.
"Love God 100%. everyone else, 99.99%"

The implications here are probably not what you wanted.
First, it has homosexual love as being more sincere than heterosexual.
It also seems to hold that gay people cannot love God.

Sin is simply disobeying God.
God made man for woman, and woman for man.

So then, something is evil simply because God says it is?
What is, and isn't, a sin is completely arbitrary and need have no basis in any morality?

And why does God care about gay marriage? Murder, I can see, that involves harm to something he created. Adultery? Same thing, I suppose, but only if its found out.

Gay marriage? No harm to anything. No harm to other people, no harm to God, nadda.

Satan toyed with the false desires of many which led to the spawn of homosexuality, which is against God's Will for us, thus, it is sin because it is disobeying God.

Then he is not just. He is arbitrary.

If it brings displeasure to God, yes.
Take me for instance, I love my husband to pieces, but before we were married, sex was a sin. It was sex based in love, in a loving relationship, however, it was a sin because it was against what God created sex for- married couples.

I'm curious, where does the Bible condemn sex before marriage?
There are passages against adultery, yes, but that's not the same thing.
There's also a passage against a woman claiming to be a virgin when she isn't (with the penalty being stoned to death.)

That's...it, as far as I know.

Gluttony is a love of food.
Just because you love food doesn't mean you have to act out on that love and become obese.

Nor does being obesce mean that you are a glutton.

It is entirely possible to become obese while eating only food from a government-endorsed food guide. Just don't exercise much.

Homosexuality is a love of the same sex.
Just because you love the same sex doesn't mean you have to act out on that love.

Perfectly true, but the Bible goes on and on about how thoughts in your head are enough to damn you to hell. Apparently just being gay gets you sent there. How is this just?

Pardon my ignorance, but, what?

Alright. You'd agree that God gave us our sense of morality, yes?
So our ability to tell right from wrong is one that he, presumably, made and supports.
This means that if he does something that we think is morally wrong, then that's because its going against the rules that he, himself, gave us, yes?

If he's breaking his own rules of morality, is that not the same thing as him sinning?

I think I answered this above.
God originally created us to live peaceful lives with Him, but man turned his back on God and went his own way, therefore, God is allowing us to either come back, or stay where we are. Simple as that.

And then he throws us into a lake of fire if we don't unconditionally accept everything he does. :/.

I don't see any contradiction at all. Just because they hold the largest number of followers doesn't mean that the people that aren't a part of the faith will 'bow down in reverence' for Christians, or even take them seriously. I was only saying that so many people have to find something worthwhile in Christianity, or else they wouldn't claim to follow it.

That's an argument ad populum, the number of people who believe something has absolutley no influence on how likely it is to be true.

6 000 years ago everyone knew the Earth was flat. Yet it stayed spherical.

God is a jealous God.

Then why worship him?

That's why God gave us freewill to choose if we want our lives to be led by Him or not.

Why give us free will if he simply punishes us for using it?

I mean, if you want to channel Vetinari from the Discworld book Going Postal then, yes, a choice between following God or eternal torment is still a choice, but not in any meaningful sense.

How? I'm not saying that homosexuals won't make it into Heaven - in all honesty I don't know who will make Heaven for sure. All I know is, that just because you place faith in Christ, that doesn't give you a license to sin, and if you continue to sin knowingly, God will punish you. That doesn't necessarily mean that you will go to Hell, just, that you will be punished in some way or another.

How is it not fair?
Jesus is saying that the only way to make it to Heaven is to accept His sacrifice.

Exactly. There's only one way in, and that way doesn't care if you've been good or bad, only if you've made the right friends.

Reading back, this seems to contradict the quote before.

God will not be the ruler of the world until after judgement.
There's no possible way that God could be the ruler right now, because if He were, you wouldn't see the awful things that you see now.

Oh, I don't know, he apparently couldn't keep awful things out of Eden, after all.

All the hunger, and war, and hate. God gave earth to man, and man, in turn, handed over his rights to Satan on a silver platter. God will take the world back into His possession, but that hasn't already happened.

Why not? If a God-ruled world is a utopia, then isn't it horribly cruel of him to not come back and take over right now?

Thank you for ignoring my other points as well as the link in my post, Sahhrie.

I don't know everything about OCD, I just told you what it was from what I understood. I may be wrong, but then again, you could be too.

Originally Posted by wolfen

Thank you for ignoring my other points as well as the link in my post, Sahhrie.

I don't know everything about OCD, I just told you what it was from what I understood. I may be wrong, but then again, you could be too.

Thank you for ignoring the fact that I HAVE OCD.
I know what it's like. I know everything about it, because I live with it everyday.

I don't need some internet link showing me what I already know.

I went through and deleted my posts from here for my own sake.
If any of you have read what I typed down, don't take my word for it.
Man's word is flawed, you should ask God about anything I have said to ensure that you know the Truth. I cannot guarantee that everything I said is the COMPLETE truth, most was based on my own personal understanding on the matter. So, if you are still questioning me, ask God about it. (:

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Have you ever read the story of Job?
It's those times when the going gets rough that you are to try even harder, and persevere.

Job is an interesting case as the most common Christian reading makes it out to be a pretty horrible tale. God has Job tortured, and makes him lose everything, to win a bet.

Job doesn't even get his children back at the end.

Apparently a key Christian virtue is not questioning anything God does, even when he's being incredibly immoral, self-interested, and evil.

God never said it was going to be easy

Why not? He could, one assumes, make it as easy as he wanted.

Through the power of God, I have gotten rid of fetishes that I had no desire to have.

Really? You got rid of every fetish you don't like? Just like that?

1 Corinthians 7:8-9
"But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

for⋅ni⋅ca⋅tion  /ˌfɔrnɪˈkeɪʃən/
–noun 1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other

Neither of these things prove your point, actually.

You aren't supposed to listen to the world anyways.
If you are following a food guide that man created you are following with the world, which is a sin.

So there's a divinely-inspired diet plan?

My point is that even if you eat the absolute healthiest combination of foods possible, and eat them only in moderate quantifies, you can still get fat.

It's not if you have thoughts, it's if you act on those thoughts.
I was told that if I get an evil thought, to just think of Jesus on Calvary, or just to repeat His name over and over.
James 1:13-15
"Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived[meaning, when you act on it], it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

It doesn't say anything about thoughts being sinful, rather; our actions.

Actually, it explicitly says that thoughts are sinful. Sinful desires beget sinful actions, so they are wrong.

How exactly, is God being immoral?

Hell is innately unjust. (Any eternal suffering for a non-eternal crime would be.)
The story of Job is innately unjust.
Creating evil is not a good act.
etc.

You have a choice whether or not to be thrown into the lake of fire.

Not really.

Honestly, following God isn't that hard to do, people are just so hell-bent on being selfish. God created us, He knows what's best for our lives because He made us!

I don't think he exists. I can hardly follow him, can I?

Tell me honestly, which sounds more appealing, Heaven, or Hell?

Perhaps it is naive of me, but I'd like to think that I'd resist an evil tyrant, even if he did threaten me with hell.

Look at people who did incredibly moral feats. Ghandi, say, or Nelson Mandela, or Oscar Schindler (Who was not, admittedly, an upstanding, moral, person, but who still did an amazingly heroic thing.) No one on any such list simply bowed down because they were being threatened.

It is how it is. That's all I have to say.
He gave us a choice, He tells us that if we don't choose His way we will be punished for it. If you want to be punished, that's on you.

Then, once again, why give us free will if he'll only punish us for using it? What's the point? Is it some sort of sadistic game?

If you are truly under the power of the Holy Spirit, you will desire to do what is right in God's sight. I still don't see how it contradicts, because if a homosexual accepts Christ's sacrifice, they might make it into Heaven, I don't know who will make it to Heaven. I believe that they will just be punished here on earth for their willful sin... they may go through hardships and such.

The contradiction is the statement that accepting Jesus won't get you into heaven, juxtaposed with the statement that one must accept Jesus to get into heaven.


Mind you, I've always liked "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." from the book of James. A rather nice condemnation of the idea that belief is all you need.

He could, but He loved us enough to give us free choice.

How is this love? If we ever actually use our free will then we are punished for it. He has given us an option, apparently just so that he can tempt us with it and then punish us for being tempted.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

I went through and deleted my posts from here for my own sake.
If any of you have read what I typed down, don't take my word for it.
Man's word is flawed, you should ask God about anything I have said to ensure that you know the Truth. I cannot guarantee that everything I said is the COMPLETE truth, most was based on my own personal understanding on the matter. So, if you are still questioning me, ask God about it. (:

...but why would I ask anyone else when it is your views on the matter that I'm interested in ?
Don't you have any opinions of your own?
Is it all just repeating what you think god would want you to say/think like a robot?

Originally Posted by Snapdragon

...but why would I ask anyone else when it is your views on the matter that I'm interested in ?
Don't you have any opinions of your own?
Is it all just repeating what you think god would want you to say/think like a robot?

Most of everything I gave is my opinion/belief. (:
I'm not trying to condemn/bash/persecutewhateveryouwillofit to anyone, and I surely hope I haven't come off that way.

Before telling someone about The Lord, however, you pray beforehand, asking God to speak through you, so that you will be telling the truth to that person, and not be telling lies based off of bias or of one's own understanding.

Of course you can get someone's opinion on the matter, but, as I see it, it will be flawed that way, and only create more confusion, which is probably why some of you are confused after my posts - because of my flawed understanding. Alas, I am not perfect, nor do I claim to be. I just want to make one thing clear: GOD LOVES ALL. He loves straight AND gay, and just because you are homosexual and put faith in Christ doesn't mean that you will go to Hell, as far as I understand. That might not be true though, I do not know, that's just what I believe.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Before telling someone about The Lord, however, you pray beforehand, asking God to speak through you, so that you will be telling the truth to that person, and not be telling lies based off of bias or of one's own understanding.

...god will not be speaking through you this fine evening then?

Originally Posted by Snapdragon

...god will not be speaking through you this fine evening then?

Well... I didn't pray.
(I forgot to.)

Besides, I need to eat something, and I am in desperate need of a shower, and change of clothes.
I have baby spit-up all over me. (:

You know what this reminds me of? This Episode of South Park (Wiki article describing the plot) It hits the nail on the head Imho.

I went through and deleted my posts from here for my own sake.
If any of you have read what I typed down, don't take my word for it.
Man's word is flawed, you should ask God about anything I have said to ensure that you know the Truth. I cannot guarantee that everything I said is the COMPLETE truth, most was based on my own personal understanding on the matter. So, if you are still questioning me, ask God about it. (:

How can I ask that which doesn't exist to me? Hmm?

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

How can I ask that which doesn't exist to me? Hmm?

Well, I mean, let me put it this way: if you really wanted to listen to what I was saying, (say, you showed an interest in God and all that) then you might want to know the Truth, to get closer to God. Soooo, if you have that desire, then by all means, go to God, and ask Him. (: If you don't believe that God exists, then there is no point in even reading what I typed because it doesn't apply to you anyways.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Well, I mean, let me put it this way: if you really wanted to listen to what I was saying, (say, you showed an interest in God and all that) then you might want to know the Truth, to get closer to God. Soooo, if you have that desire, then by all means, go to God, and ask Him. (:

But as I have no interest in God, does that mean you have officially locked up on me or others who don't believe in God?

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Thank you for ignoring the fact that I HAVE OCD.
I know what it's like. I know everything about it, because I live with it everyday.

I don't need some internet link showing me what I already know.

I went through and deleted my posts from here for my own sake.
If any of you have read what I typed down, don't take my word for it.
Man's word is flawed, you should ask God about anything I have said to ensure that you know the Truth. I cannot guarantee that everything I said is the COMPLETE truth, most was based on my own personal understanding on the matter. So, if you are still questioning me, ask God about it. (:

A word of keen advice: deleting all of your posts in a debate thread doesn't do that much for the credibility your argument.

And while I'm at it, you have OCD. You know what it's like. You don't need people who aren't OCD telling you what it's like. Likewise, homosexuals don't need straight people telling them whether or not their orientation is a choice. Honestly, it's completely irrelevant whether o not it's a choice. It harms no one, therefore whether or not it is intentional has nothing to do with its morality.

Originally Posted by Safer

A word of keen advice: deleting all of your posts in a debate thread doesn't do that much for the credibility your argument.

Deleting them also prevents me from being tempted to come back here and reply - which is what I'm doing now! I know it lessens my credibility, but it keeps people from delving really deeply into what I said to try and get me talk about things that I know nothing about. I know how you guys like to get all serious and deep with these types of things, and the truth is, I just don't have the time, knowledge, or the patience for it right now. (:

I was giving my opinion on a lot of the matter, and I don't want people to think that all of what I said is the truth about God, as it is only opinion. That's mostly why I deleted my posts.

Sahhrie, I'm fine if you answer two questions to me, so we don't have to get into a 35-quote wars.

1.
Do animals have souls?
If not, how do you explain homosexual behavior among thousands of species? This is the question I'm most interested to get an answer for, Sahrrie.

2.
Do you believe my bisexuality was a 'choice', if I can somehow assure you that it isn't this arbitrarily weird belief that it's Satan that "tempted me" (which is bull**** considering my personality).

Originally Posted by fratey

Sahhrie, I'm fine if you answer two questions to me, so we don't have to get into a 35-quote wars.

1.
Do animals have souls?
If not, how do you explain homosexual behavior among thousands of species? This is the question I'm most interested to get an answer for, Sahrrie.

2.
Do you believe my bisexuality was a 'choice', if I can somehow assure you that it isn't this arbitrarily weird belief that it's Satan that "tempted me" (which is bull**** considering my personality).

Goodness, I know!
Talk about intimidating-looking replies that have to be made. @_@

Can I reply to you via PM, as I'm a very sensitive individual and I know how harsh people on ZU can often be. I don't like logging into this place with a stomachache, expecting the worst. -- Which is also another reason why I deleted my posts.

Feel free to, although I want you to know that I do not mean any harm if I reply back harshly.

I have a question for you as well, Sahhrie. Does me being bisexual and liking it make me any less of a Christian, when I clearly love God?