God says: All gay-haters should be burned to death.

Originally Posted by HeroOfTime202

Gays have there own reasons for being gay but doesnt god blow up some city in the bible BECAUSE it was full of gays and lesbians and prostitutes? just asking

I think you are refering to the cities of Sodam and Gamora. They were destroyed because of large amounts of violence and prostitution. Gays or lesbians aren't mentioned.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

So then if you don't believe in Christianity you can't go to hell for committing what is a perceived sin to them?

With Christianity, the amount or type of sin doesn't matter. Its mainly whether you've accepted Christ or not.

Originally Posted by SheikahSage

With Christianity, the amount or type of sin doesn't matter. Its mainly whether you've accepted Christ or not.

But if you don't believe in Christianity that doesn't matter?

Now I'm not really particularly Christian, but no one is taking up their side here, and I think it's being kinda unfairly represented, so I'ma play Devil's Advocate.

Originally Posted by Nictel

Now besides some silly books written by men with penis issues, there is no prove that God doesn't actually approves homosexuality.

Depending on how you interpret the Bible (as far as I can tell, mostly just considering "Sodomites" to be "people who engage in sodomy," and not "people from Sodom"), there could actually be quite a few bits of proof.

Two examples:
-Jude 7, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
-Isaiah 3:9, "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves."

Originally Posted by Nictel

On the other side, what happens is quite the opposite: Religious wars, closed minds and the spreading of hate and outlawing of those who do not follow the faith.

So my point is, isn't against all believes to hate on the gay community?

Well. As far as I believe, yes. Even if you believe homosexuality to be a sin, then that puts gays on the same level as everyone else. Because hell, we're all sinners, and any sin whatsoever supposedly makes us eligible for an afterlife vacation in hell. So burning crosses on gay people's lawns, and lynching gay people would be hella hypocritical, and certainly contrary to anything found in the Bible.

A lot of aspects of discrimination against the gays, however, can be justified if you believe all of the above about the Bible. For instance, marriage in America is a religious institution that is often carried out by a Christian priest in a Christian church. I see nothing wrong with a priest refusing to marry two homosexuals if he feels it goes against his religion. That being said, though, I'm of the opinion that marriage should be primarily a state institution, which would turn a blind eye to sexual preference, thus allowing gays to circumvent traditional religious practices and still get their tax/other benefits.

Besides which, the real issues most Christians would have with gay people isn't just that they're homosexuals ('cause hey, they'd realize that they're all sinner too), it's the whole "Gay Pride" movement. Not just being sinners, but being proud to be sinners. The Bible will tolerate a hell of a lot of sin as long as you do the whole "repent, accept Jesus, yadda yadda" thing, but if you're proud of your "sin," then all that goes out the window. You will, as they like to say, burn in hell. I'm personally opposed to the practice of preaching this to non-believers, but I guess some people aren't, and their stance would make perfect sense for them. They're trying to teach those poor people the error of their ways so they can avoid damnation.

Originally Posted by fratey

99.9% of Christians who disapprove of homosexuality wear mixed fibers.

Kinda a moot point, though, since that rule is really only in Leviticus, and if my limited knowledge of Christian doctrine is correct, than most of those Old Testament rules were rescinded by the appearance of Jesus. We don't need to sacrifice animals and avoid shellfish and whatnot now 'cause we get free passes into heaven via Jesus.

Originally Posted by Dread

Christians are supposed to try and follow what Jesus did. I don't recall Jesus hating on minorities. In fact, most of his disciples weren't exactly high-class people, if you catch my drift.

I may be mistaken here, but didn't Jesus also convince the whores to stop whoring, the tax collectors to not be money grubbing bastards, and so on? He hung out with sinners, and through his example they stopped sinning as much. I think.

Originally Posted by Dread

So why do some Christians continue to hate minorities that have done no harm to them?

Depends on what you mean by "hate." In the traditional sense, it'd be because they're human and imperfect and not following the Bible correctly. If you mean the whole "Gays burn in hell" protests, opposing gay marriage, opposing gay priests, and so on, then that would be for reasons I've stated above.

Originally Posted by Sheikah

The whole homoseuality is wrong rule only applies to Christians, not everybody, a fact that some Christians don't understand.

And yet a good chunk of Christianity believes, surprise surprise, that their religion is the only correct one, and therefore non-Christians are in danger of eternal damnation just as much as they are (even more so, in fact). And the Bible also does teach to spread the word of God and all that, so they feel they are doing the right thing by telling gay people the "error of their ways," and the consequences of such.

Originally Posted by Safer

Bottom line, and I mean the very bottom line: Christians who oppose or support anything with their basis being the Bible will always pick-and-choose which verses are to be taken literally (read: which verses work for their own opinions), and which ones are to be taken symbollically (read: which verses make their religion look bad).

In the defense of such Christians, this process of "cherry picking" is likely a completely subconscious one. Also, to be fair, many of those Old Testament rules were made moot by the New Testament.

Originally Posted by Safer

And in my own personal opinion, so is the entire "In order to protect our own immortal souls, we're not going to codemn you, instead we're gonna tell you you're sinning and hope you pray-away-the-gay" fallacy. That is no different.

I definitely agree with you there. It's a shame more people don't.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

Honestly: if Christians ignored the Old Testament and focused on the four Gospels, the Bible would get 1000 times less bigoted overnight. And a lot less contradictory, too.

So where would that leave the Jews?

Originally Posted by SheikahSage

Exactly. However, some get misguided and think it applies to everyone, and thats how you get religious homophobes.

Well, according to most interpretations of the Bible, the whole "sin and damnation" thing does apply to everyone. Hence the whole fervor in converting people.

Originally Posted by SS

Its logical to assume that a nonChristian doesn't have to follow Christian laws, just like someone who isn't an American citizen doesn't have to follow American laws.

The difference is that US laws were created by man, whereas Christian laws (supposedly) come from God. Thus making them universal.

Originally Posted by SS

With Christianity, the amount or type of sin doesn't matter. Its mainly whether you've accepted Christ or not.

Also whether you repent for your sins. Being openly gay would imply a lack of any perceived of wrongdoing, and thus no repentance, and thus, according to some Christians, damnation.

Originally Posted by SheikahSage

With Christianity, the amount or type of sin doesn't matter. Its mainly whether you've accepted Christ or not.

In fact, let me present my favorite verse of the Bible, one of the few that I follow:

"Owe no one anything except to love one
another, for he who loves another
has fulfilled the law."
(Romans 13:8)

I'm not planning to burn in hell.

Kinda a moot point, though, since that rule is really only in Leviticus, and if my limited knowledge of Christian doctrine is correct, than most of those Old Testament rules were rescinded by the appearance of Jesus. We don't need to sacrifice animals and avoid shellfish and whatnot now 'cause we get free passes into heaven via Jesus.

Most Christian gaybashers cite Leviticus, though.

Originally Posted by fratey

Most Christian gaybashers cite Leviticus, though.

Most Christian gaybashers are dumbasses, so nothing they do would surprise me. Jesus specifically said he was instituting a 'new covenant', so the rules connected with the old covenant became obsolete. The only reason I don't completely shun the Old Testament is because it bestows a good understanding of the politcal and social climate at the time of the New. I don't base my worldview on it because it is quite obviously bonkers.

God doesn't hate gays, it's Sexual relationships between them that God doesn't aprove.
he made men an women for a reason.

Originally Posted by Adam 2

So where would that leave the Jews?

Ask them. I'm not gonna tell them what to believe. All I know is Christians, their religion based on the new covenant, need not bother with the old.

Originally Posted by Mask Collector

God doesn't hate gays, it's Sexual relationships between them that God doesn't aprove.

Then why did he make them homosexual?
You definitely need to read this.
http://fallwell.com/neighbor.html

Originally Posted by Mask Collector

he made men an women for a reason.

Tell me, why do men have prostates then?

Originally Posted by Mask Collector

God doesn't hate gays, it's Sexual relationships between them that God doesn't aprove.
he made men an women for a reason.

Do you believe animals have souls?

Originally Posted by Mikhael

You can hate gays and not be Christian.

Just some food for thought.

How dare you say this? How dare you imply that, atheists or agnostics may not like homosexuals? Or Hindus and Buddhists? Don't you know that Christians are these horrible monsters, with seventy eyes, and bat-like wings that swoop down upon gays in the night, ripping off their heads and feasting on their innards? Or that they call people names just to make them feel bad about themselves? Or that they steal candy from children?

You're a simply horrible person for showing this gargantuan amount of ignorance. I hope one day you can open a book and learn something. Jeez, people these days.

Originally Posted by Mikhael

You can hate gays and not be Christian.

Just some food for thought.

Yeah, those people are called Muslims or Jews.

On a non-humorous point, of course it's possible! However, that ratio correlates down with how secular a country is. I'm very aware that there's homophobic atheists.

Originally Posted by fratey

Most Christian gaybashers cite Leviticus, though.

Sure, but there are other places in the Bible where you can find relevant anti-gay sentiments in the Bible (maybe, once again, depending on how you interpret it? I'm no theologist). And once again, I while the New Covenant rescinded a lot of stuff from the Old Testament, I don't really think it's a blanket effect. However, I've got better things to do than look up other people's interpretations of Christian dogma, so as long as you've got an idea of how Christians can logically oppose homosexuality (or at least homosexual actions), my job here is done.

Originally Posted by fratey

Tell me, why do men have prostates then?

To aid in sexual reproduction? Raise the pH of semen so the sperm can survive longer in acidic conditions?

Originally Posted by fratey

Then why did he make them homosexual?

There are those who believe that sexuality is a choice, not a born "condition." I'm not sure as to what psychological studies have been done to determine the veracity of this, but off the top of my head, I'd think that there's a little truth to both arguments.

Originally Posted by Adam 2

To aid in sexual reproduction? Raise the pH of semen so the sperm can survive longer in acidic conditions?

Let me reformulate. Why does stimulating the prostate feel incredibly amazing? That's something that is not possible in heterosexual sex, mind you, unless you do it some other way.

Originally Posted by Adam 2

There are those who believe that sexuality is a choice, not a born "condition." I'm not sure as to what psychological studies have been done to determine the veracity of this, but off the top of my head, I'd think that there's a little truth to both arguments.

I can disprove this fact myself, considering the fact that I'm bisexual. Next!

Originally Posted by Adam 2

There are those who believe that sexuality is a choice, not a born "condition." I'm not sure as to what psychological studies have been done to determine the veracity of this, but off the top of my head, I'd think that there's a little truth to both arguments.

There is no evidence whatsoever that sexuality is a choice, although it's true that sexuality may be fluid and can change with time.

If sexuality was a choice, why would so many people risk the social ostracism that may result - or even worse, death? There are still seven countries (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, U.A.E, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan and Nigeria) that impose the death penalty for homosexuality.

And there are plenty of other places that hold homosexuality as a jailable offence (strangely, many of these are only true for male homosexuality, whereas female homosexuality is legal):

Antigua and Barbuda
Algeria
Angola (labour camps)
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belize
Bhutan
Botswana
Brunei
Burundi
Cameroon
Djibouti
Dominica
Eritrea
Ethiopia
The Gambia
Grenada
Guinea
Guyana
Jamaica (technically, the penalty is 10 years hard labour)
Kenya
Kuwait
Lebanon
Malaysia
Maldives
Mauritius
Morocco
Myanmar
North Korea (prison camps)
Oman
Pakistan
Qatar
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Swaziland
Syria
Tanzania
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkmenistan
Uganda
Uzbekistan
Zambia
Zimbabwe

I've probably missed a few as well.

Originally Posted by fratey

Let me reformulate. Why does stimulating the prostate feel incredibly amazing? That's something that is not possible in heterosexual sex, mind you, unless you do it some other way.

I believe that from a nature standpoint, homosexuality is there to control the population. Perhaps it feels good so that it is harder to suppress homosexual feelings, to show it's ok to deviate from 'the norm'.
Looking how both over-population and how the amount of homosexual people is on the rise I think there's enough to support this theory.


tl:dr God wants gays to save the planet! Go Planet!

Originally Posted by fratey

Let me reformulate. Why does stimulating the prostate feel incredibly amazing? That's something that is not possible in heterosexual sex, mind you, unless you do it some other way.

I feel iffy citing developmental biology as evidence when I'm arguing the part of a Christian biblethumper, but even discarding evolution, I'm sure Christians could see how the prostate of a male is developmentally homologous to...whatever the technical name of the portion of female anatomy responsible for G-spot orgasms (Wikipedia says it's likely the Skene's gland, and backs up that it's homologous to the prostate).

Originally Posted by fratey

I can disprove this fact myself, considering the fact that I'm bisexual. Next!

Yeah, we call that anecdotal evidence, and it really doesn't cut it. Given the number of factors that can effect this, I'd rather wait for an actual study.

Originally Posted by Nictel

tl:dr God wants gays to save the planet! Go Planet!

Captain Planet, he's our hero. Gonna...

Originally Posted by Astarael

There is no evidence whatsoever that sexuality is a choice, although it's true that sexuality may be fluid and can change with time.

I've honestly never really taken this position, so I don't know what leads people to believe the sexuality is a choice (upon a little Googling, maybe it's because some people are).

I doubt homosexuality is a choice. If it is, it must be an unconsience choice (nobody wakes up one morning and says, "You know, I think I'm gonna try being gay")

(strangely, many of these are only true for male homosexuality, whereas female homosexuality is legal):

Likely because in most of the countries you mentioned, women are still considered second class citizens, so what they do is considered irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

However, if a homosexual were truly Christian, they wouldn't desire to be homosexual any longer.

I know several gay Christians whom I love dearly, and I admire the strength of their faith regardless of whether not I share it. They are secure in their sexuality and have few problems with themselves, least of which with the simple decision of who they enjoy sharing their love. They happen to share a very close relationship with their church and their God. To tell them that they "aren't true Christians" because they don't desire to adhere to an unfair principle just because "God says so, too bad," is absolutely ludicrous, unjust, and above all, cruel.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

I've seen homosexual converted heterosexual on the Christian board I often frequent. With God, anything is possible.

I've seen an entire nation mesmerized by the silver tongue of an antisemitic warmonger in a history book I often read. With enough suppression and propaganda, anything is possible.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

You say that God isn't fair, but God made everything that you see around you. He made everything. He made fair and unfair, me and you, and to say that He is unfair just doesn't stand because He's the reason that anything is fair.

Ah, yes, but unfortunately logic like this has no place in our secular society.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

Well, I'm talking about good, positive possibilities. (:

And just who are you to say whether or not a homosexual turning into heterosexual is a good, positive thing? You could say, "because my religion teaches that doing so will lead them to their salvation," but by that logic, everything the people of Germany in WWII did to Jews was just and sound because "their leader taught them such things would lead to their salvation."

Originally Posted by Mask Collector

God doesn't hate gays, it's Sexual relationships between them that God doesn't aprove.
he made men an women for a reason.

Yeah, Gays just marry to have sex. What a juvinile point.