Heaven: Eternal Bliss?

An atheist myself, I do however wish to understand people's perception of heaven and why it appeals to them... I will not be specific, though I refer to heaven any thinking afterlife where happiness if offered is up to question...

But, in the title I refer to heaven as Eternal Bliss. For correct me if I'm wrong but is that not what so many hold heaven to be? Blissful?

Peachy eh? Absolutely delightful!

But for Cynicism's sake let me give my perception of eternal bliss... I go by the belief that ignorance is bliss... That to truly be happy, to be blissful one would have to be appalingly unaware of the world around them so that they could maintain this blissful existence.

So, taking into consideration that heaven is paradise, and paradise is a blissful place. That would mean one would have to be completly unaware of, not only the world around them but the one they would have left.

That in heaven you would completly forget or abandon all you had in life, for bliss to exist you would have to forget the misery that existed in life... Forget those you left behind, and focus upon your own blissful being.

Sounds somewhat selfish no? Though, of course the arguement would be that if you earned passage to heaven, you earned your 'peace of mind'... Though I suppose this is also another subject though I'll save it for another day (Finite sin for Infinite punishment, or such and such) but how can heaven be blissful if it would mean for us to be happy, you would have to reject and forget the troubles and things and trials you had in life.

You have no troubles, for you shall life in bliss and happiness, but what about those who dont want such existence, I for one would find it quite miserable.

What do you all think? Is my idea of Eternal Bliff anywhere near the spot the fairy tales speak of? Are am I missing the point completly? For it was always my understanding heaven was described as Eternal Bliss.

If heaven exists, then the way I like to think of it is the same way I like to think of hell: reincarnation.

If you were a good person, then you made the world a better place. In which case being born again would be a reward. On the other hand, if you were a bad person then you made the world worse, in which case being born again would be a punishment.

An example: Hitler being born again as a Jew. Every time he's subjected to anti-semitism, he's not being punished by any external force, he's being punished by himself - having been the cause of his currect predicament. Hopefully he learns something, too.

Likewise: A gay man in the 70s campaigns for gay rights and falls in love. Being reborn again today and growing up to be gay, he reaps all the rewards of his past life, and has the happy, unpersecuted gay adolescence he was denied in his former life, meeting his former lover as teens instead of being forced to live in the closet and wasting half their lives before they admit how they really are.

If you were reborn again and lived a happier life than the one you have now, wouldn't that be heaven? And if in your former life you had ensured that people in this generation would have such happiness, wouldn't you have earned heaven through your good deeds?

I suppose they call it karma.

Heaven is impossible as is anything that is supposedly perfection. If there is no bad in heaven there is no good. Which means you would be in heaven for eternity rotting in a sea of nothingness. A world without contrast is not a world at all.

However, if you want to take the easier route, heaven is illogical and therefore is not subject to the rules of logic, so it is perfect. But thinking illogically doesn't work very well .

Originally Posted by BEHIND THE MASK

An atheist myself, I do however wish to understand people's perception of heaven and why it appeals to them... I will not be specific, though I refer to heaven any thinking afterlife where happiness if offered is up to question...

But, in the title I refer to heaven as Eternal Bliss. For correct me if I'm wrong but is that not what so many hold heaven to be? Blissful?

.....

What do you all think? Is my idea of Eternal Bliss anywhere near the spot the fairy tales speak of? Are am I missing the point completly? For it was always my understanding heaven was described as Eternal Bliss.

This bolded part won't catch any of these believers' ears, especially the fairy tale word usage. You catch more bees with honey, or whatever the saying is.

For me, heaven would be full of anthropomorphic animal guys and also male-to-female transsexuals that were vastly attracted to me. If Heaven existed.

For Christianity, the general idea as far as I can tell is that being with God is what makes Heaven perfect, not material goods or anything else. Bliss for them is the connection to their divine paternity.

This all comes down to what you THINK bliss is. For me, though, bliss isn't found in any heaven, shemales or sky daddies aside. Bliss is found in awe of the cosmos and is beyond happy feelings or negative feelings.

Originally Posted by BEHIND THE MASK

You have no troubles, for you shall life in bliss and happiness, but what about those who dont want such existence, I for one would find it quite miserable.

No you wouldn't, you'd love it, because you wouldn't know any better; you're ignorant, remember? You only say that because you know now, in your enlightened state, that you would prefer more to life then mindless happiness.

Personally I think mindless happiness is a tempting, if pathetic, proposition. Of course now I'd prefer life as it is now, but I would be mindless, so what would it matter?

But more to the point, if heaven is a reward, it would be eternal whateverthe****youwant. And being perfect, and God being omniscient and omnipotent, it would also allow for boredom, so no fear of that. If you're a search for knowledge sort of guy, you'll be allowed to continue searching for knowledge. I'd like to stay on earth for the sake of watching humanities progress. Others might just be happy with their loved ones. Maybe that includes taking the arguments from your spouse every now and again, if only to make peaceful times seem even better. Eternity has to be a pretty long term thing, after all.

EDIT: I mean, after awhile the lofty mansions and endless supply of virgins would get a bit dull, don't you think?

The way I see it, finite good for infinite bliss is a retarded concept and as FoV says, a world without contrast is not a world at all.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

...heaven is illogical and therefore is not subject to the rules of logic... thinking illogically doesn't work very well .

Tell me, how much do you know about logic?

Sorry, but I just it find it funny when so many people here site logic and makes me suspect that they've never taken a full course on logic or even read a concise book of this subject.

I'd like to believe that such a place exists, but I'm a bit skeptical. For one thing, what does God gain from creating us, and rewarding us with heaven? Why wouldn't he just land us in heaven to begin with, if that's what he wants? I just don't know what to believe.

I think of it as a place outside "our" reality and without pain, though because it's so vague, I'm not placing my bets on anything.

Have you ever had a great day? Everything seemed to be perfect, the weather was nice, the people around you were generally friendly, you had no worries to speak of.

I think this is what Heaven would be like. A place where everyone is at peace with everyone else. There is no hate because there is no need to. There would be no arguments, except perhaps those out of good fun.

But then, maybe its not.

Originally Posted by IkanaGeneral197

I'd like to believe that such a place exists, but I'm a bit skeptical. For one thing, what does God gain from creating us, and rewarding us with heaven? Why wouldn't he just land us in heaven to begin with, if that's what he wants? I just don't know what to believe.

For a start, why should we think that God needs to "gain" anything? I mean, He's God after all. He has all He needs.

I believe God created us so that He may have people that want to believe in Him and aren't forced to. People that love Him because He is God, not because they were told or shown, but something that they find themselves and belive themselves. That's why I believe that each person should have their own faith, and not rely on other people's faith. I don't mean that everyone should have their own "Christianity" but that they understand the faith on a personal level, rather than someone telling them and them just believing.

Anyways, regarding the thread: I don't really know what heaven will be like, all I believe is that it is where God is and from what I've experienced of Him already I can feel that heaven's gonna be a fantastic place of freedom, worship and peacefulness.

I've always seen heaven as a product of people's mind to always think i 2's, sort of like ying-yang. For every white, there will be a black, for every wrong a right and so forth.

Now, I believe that human kind has created the concept of afterlife, so it could have something to juxtapose to the concept of life. Juxtaposing it to death won't be enough, as death is simply the exit of life. The opposite of death is birth. In order to define something, we need the opposite of it, and human kind has always wanted to define "life".

I don't believe in heaven, but that's just me. I always picture death as a long dreamless sleep, and that's all.

But it's natural for people to think there is a counterpart for life. Either they find it in heaven, or reincarnation. But I also think that there is something a little disturbing in how the perception of afterlife is... Some beliefs say that you have to make sarifices in the actual life, if you want the afterlife to be bliss. Sacrifices may be a good thing, but you also risk not experiencing "the real world" if you go this path. In the end, I believe that some people only lead half lives if all they think about is a ticket to heaven.

You shouldn't worry about afterlife, but rather focus on the life you have right now.

Heaven could earn its description of "paradise" for more reasons than just the happiness and peace it provides. Who knows what kind of heightened awareness and amazing feelings are available in heaven. If heaven did exist, then most likely so would a benevolent God, and that god would explain why the world is like it is. So the concept of heaven isn't a paradox, if that's what you're trying to point out.

Originally Posted by IkanaGeneral197

I'd like to believe that such a place exists, but I'm a bit skeptical. For one thing, what does God gain from creating us, and rewarding us with heaven? Why wouldn't he just land us in heaven to begin with, if that's what he wants? I just don't know what to believe.

Or, why didn't God make every human like Jesus? If God is truly perfect, then Humanity certianly isn't God's image.

For a start, why should we think that God needs to "gain" anything? I mean, He's God after all. He has all He needs.

If God has all he needs, why did he:
Murder his Son
Kill the sodomites
Coax a man into almost killing his son
be displeased with his creation. And so on etc. God, in the Christian sense, is far from a perfect being.

Heaven is in death, for Hell is other people.

Not sure who said that, but it's cool.

Coax a man into almost killing his son
I don't know where you got this(?).

How can you call yourself a Christian?

God gave the sodomites a chance.
He was willing to spare them.

Killing is wrong in every sense of the word. Just giving people a chance and then murdering them is pure evil. And you must have a deranged mind to think so.

Because God gave us freewill.

Then wasn't Jesus a programed robot? Why not program Humans to have freewill but act like Jesus? If Jesus was made by God, then it is evil of God to make humans not like Jesus.

Originally Posted by Sahrrie

I don't know where you got this(?).

He's talking about the story of Abraham, who was told to sacrifice his son Isaac by God, but was stopped at the very last minute. Apparently, his willingness to kill his own son out of total obedience to God is meant to be a prime example of morality.

Jesus IS God.
I don't know God's motives, as I am not God.

It seems that no matter what God did or did not let us do, you wouldn't be happy either way.

We're quite happy, really.

We're just inquisitive.

~read~

PS: I think.

Because God gave us freewill.

Then why don't I have completely black hair? Why do I have slightly bigger ears? None of these are impacted by free will and you're just ignoring the question, missy. :/

Oh. I know that story.
God wasn't planning on letting Abraham kill his son, He stopped him, didn't He? He was testing Abraham's faith. Abraham most likely knew this.

If he knew, he wouldn't kill his son now, would he? and what kind of sick God tests faith like that?