Islam Discussion Topic

...and I just realized that my post did not address your question at all Phazon. I'll come back to you. Sorry.

Now then...

Originally Posted by Phazon goron

How is this ideal? Just becuase someone has different beliefs they are discriminated and killed?

...where did I say this? Where does Islam say this?

Islam states that an apostate has the right to leave, and will take it up with God when he/she dies. However, in an Islamic state, apostasy has two possible connotations:

1) Islam is false to the apostate.
2) The apostate is performing treason.

The matter is taken to the court, and if the apostate is shown to truly believe that Islam is false, they are set free and can then join a Dhimmi if they wish to stay within the Islamic state, or simply leave the state's boundaries.

If the apostate is found to be performing treason, such as conspiring with an outside organization against the Islamic state, then they are put to death.

Does this not justify Islam as conservative and backwards?

It might if it were true.

Evidence please.

Alright.

Islam emphasizes the mind over many things. The mind is the gate to the soul, and we're told to control our emotions, control our urges, deny ourselves, and train ourselves. Out of all of our abilities, I think it's safe to say that the human brain is the most powerful thing about humans. It's the reason why we've advanced so far, and it's the reason why we're still around. Our ability to use tools is what elevated us back then, and it is what allows us to fill so many niches at once and adapt. The human mind is what is most powerful about us. Islam also constantly uses the words "knowledge" and "knowing," as opposed to "ignorance," further proving the emphasis on the brain.

Islam shows very feasible and true ways as to how a primitive religion based on worshipping one thing can become a polytheistic religion by using the Arab religion and the Christian religions as examples. New deities are formed from aspects of the one God, as Christianity gets dangerously close to (in Islam's view), and Hinduism is a good example of such; though there is a Supreme Reality in the Hindu religions, the Devas are aspects of the Supreme Reality. Christianity is furthermore used as an example of how world religions become the way they are, as Islam believes that Jesus (Peace Be Upon His Soul) was a mere man, but he was elevated to deity-status by the early Christians, which is an example of Hero and Ancestor worship in China and Greece. The Arab religion is polytheistic also by way of cultural fusion, as the Arabs were a trading civilization, and would almost literally "import" deities and idols from other groups, such as the South Arabs, Canaanites, Egyptians, Persians, Anatolians, Greeks, and East Africans. In fact, history shows that cultural fusion is a way many cultures gain their religions, as evidenced by the Roman relationship with the Etruscans and Greeks, the Greeks with the Phoenicians, the Akkadians and Babylonians with the Sumerians, the Dravidians with the Aryans, Aztecs with the Mayans etc.

Islam asserts that early religions were based on worship of one deity. While this is somewhat impossible to prove, I guess one could transpose a scientific method for this. Evolution states that all animals must have come from one animal, if you go far enough back, and if you go further than that, you get to the point where there is no life on Earth. The theory of singularity (?) states that all matter came from one spot and bursted in every direction from this. So, Islam asserts that all gods must have had a start somewhere, and if you go far back enough, every religion had one God to start with. If you go before that, you get to the point where humans did not have religion, the time before Adam (Peace Be Upon His Soul).

Islam acknowledges religion as a creed, and as a contract. In the case of Islam, Islam is the contract, Muslims are the contractees, and God is the contractmaker.

Basically, that's my "proof" that Islam knows what it's talking about when it comes to humans and their relationship to humans.

Originally Posted by The Readeemer

Where do you live? I never knew "a world without Islam" ever existed. In fact, as far as I can tell, the world's always had some kinda Islamic thingie somewhere or another. But perhaps Western cultures were in a different part of the world, that's all.

Seriously; do you mean "nations" or something? Your point is kinda garbled...

He means the time before Islam. <_<

Well, this is the IDEAL way Islam works. Unfortunately, many countries haven't exactly gotten the best reputations in their implementation of Islamic code, nor does everyone in the global community agree with the Qu'ran's words.

Unfortunately, many Islamic countries today don't even implement a true Islamic code.

Originally Posted by Phazon goron

But, according to the Battler, all cave people were muslims!

Did you not read what Islam states qualifies as Muslim?

I'll say it again:

A Muslim is someone who declares that they submit to the will of God.

According to Islam, the will of God for humans is to uphold God's Law, and live by it.

Today, God's purest Law is Islam. While it is possible to uphold God's Law while not following Islam (I'll explain this a bit later), as Islam states that there are good and bad people of any religious group, Islam is the safest and most pure one. Why go for the bare minimum when you can go for the top?

Originally Posted by The Readeemer

He never said that. He just said they existed for a very long time. Whilst he hasn't backed it up with a source yet, you're making an unfair generalisation.

Your sarcasm is rather uncalled for: I'm just pointing out a fallacy in your argument.

And it's just his opinion on how to live one's life. As I've stated earlier: perhaps I believe that Zen Buddhism is a superior way to live one's life. Doesn't mean I'm wrong or right - your conception seems to point toward Islam being inherently amoral; this doesn't appear to be founded upon anything other than your own personal opinion and feelings.

~read~

Yeah, Phazon Goron, you seem to walk in here with a "what I know is 100% right until proven wrong, and what he knows is 100% wrong until proven right" mindset.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

He said that Muslims could be defined as people who submitted to God. Therefore, people who had never heard of Muhammad, but nevertheless lived their lives according to God's will (whether by rational thought or instinctive adherence to natural law) would be called Muslims in his opinion.

Thank you sir.

Though I'm not sure that humanity has actually existed all of 100,000 years, I get what he meant.

Homo Sapiens has existed for a while before 100,000 years ago. I believe scientific thinking states that Homo Sapiens appeared around 500,000 years ago.

The earliest burials were around 300,000 years ago, and I used 100,000 years as an estimate.

Though I really don't know for sure, I derive the 100,000 from a few Hadiths that state that God has sent a total of 124,000 Prophets to every group on Earth, and I figure out that 100,000-200,000 years ago is a good estimate for primal religions to appear,

So, if 1 Prophet came to some group on Earth ever year, that would mean that Prophets began appearing, well, approximately 100,000 years ago. But the gap between Prophets could be very small or very large, so I don't know for sure.

By your logic, I could argue that the world doesn't need Christianity, given that Christianity only started in 0 AD (or 30/33 AD, depending on which way you look at it). Or that it doesn't need Mathematics (developed after the rise of humanity), or biological life (which began looooong after the Big Bang). You COULD live without lots of things. Whether you'd WANT to is another matter.

Good thinking.

Originally Posted by Phazon goron

Explain further. Can't you give me a solid reason?
People have lived without Islam for millions of years. The fact that we exist today further proves a world without Islam exists and is fruitful.

Okay, so...

Why is Islam necessary?

In short, Islam itself is not necessary. Islam states that there are good and bad people of any religious group, and theoretically, you don't have to follow Islam to go to Heaven.

Islam's way of thinking is to be the best person you could be. So, if you determine that Islam is the best religion, then why would you follow anything less?