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Old 05-20-2009, 12:17 PM
Figaro Figaro is a male United Kingdom Figaro is offline
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MP's Expenses

As anyone from the UK can tell you, the memebers of the British Parliament have recently been revealed for the theiving, fraudulent hypocrites that most of them are. There is an expenses system in the Houses of Parliament, where MPs can claim Tax money on work related purchases and travel etc. except many MP's have been abusing the system. What consequences do you think this will have? Will the British public trust the MPs again? And what do you think this will mean for the European elections, the Local Elections, and next year's general election?
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:13 PM
Condi Rice Condi Rice is a male Condi Rice is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

I am extremely annoyed about this. I lost trust in the British government. I could not believe Gordon Brown was using Taxpayers money on his brother cleaners.

How can Gordon Brown justify that? >____>

Currently I am sick of the Labour Party and the Conservative party.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:37 PM
Figaro Figaro is a male United Kingdom Figaro is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

I have always been a supporter of the labour party, but I think that all of the guilty MPs are equally disgusting. I mean, claiming on a mortgage that you paid off months ago, that's plain fraudulant, and claiming to have your moat cleared out is ridiculous when you think of all the people who can barely afford food, let alone a moat. David Cameron has definitely handled the situation better than Brown, but I think that we could see a hung Parliament at the next General election, with a significant rise in support for smaller parties such as the Greens, UKIP, and the BNP.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:45 PM
Condi Rice Condi Rice is a male Condi Rice is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

I do agree David Cameron handled the situation better than Gordon Brown. I'm a little curious to see how the Conservative do if they win the next General Election.

I hope the BNP won't get into power. They won't do any good from what I read about their policies.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:00 PM
General Guy General Guy is a male United Kingdom General Guy is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

Found this rather amusing page the other day, detailing some of the rather... odd... purchases made: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...re-claims.html

As for the consequences, they appear to have a hell of a lot to answer for. Especially with everything that's happening in the world at the moment - it's just another thing to add to the pile, making everything even worse. The Government needs to get a bloody grip, you can't expect to pull a country out of a huge economic downturn with stupid farces like this popping up every few weeks.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:07 PM
Figaro Figaro is a male United Kingdom Figaro is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

No, I didn't say they would get into power, it's just that the Labour Pary has traditionally been the party that, among others, white workers vote for. They will feel, rightly so I might add, betrayed by the Labour Party, so the BNP will target them, holdingback on the rabid racism, and appealing to what the Labour party, in recent years, has failed to deliver. They won't get into power, but they could do well at the next election, taking many Labour strongholds. UKIP will be the party that posher racists have traditionally voted for, and they could take a bit of the Tory vote, the Greens will take a few supporters from each of the main three parties. Obviously this is speculation, but a recent poll suggested that many people have changed their vote for the European elections from the main three to one of the others that I mentioned.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:12 PM
Avalanchemike Avalanchemike is a male The Byzantine Empire Avalanchemike is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

>__>

I wish it said WHERE some of those things were being put in. I mean some of those objects like the light bulbs could actually be used to maintain the MPs constituency office, which they are allowed to spend some money on. Some of those were actually legitimately fraudulent claims though, like the moat cleaning and the hedge trimming. A similar issue came up the city over from me, where some city councillors were spending money on things all willy-nilly, and occasionally they'd use it to buy personal things, and then later repay it back out of their own pockets.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:50 PM
Lord Zero Lord Zero is a male Wales Lord Zero is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

This is one reason I'm not a fan of career politicians - people who get their qualifications then go straight into politics.

The system of expenses for MPs allows this, too. It's legal, and even though David Cameron has ordered MPs to pay the unfair expenses back, it's only a moral imperative to gain favour with the voters, which is why Gordon Brown is kicking himself for not thinking of it first (even though if he had, the conservative papers would never give him credit for it).

Abuse of the expenses system has been going on for years, only now that there's an economic recession, it's big news. "How dare they use the taxpayer's money, which is already scarce as is, to buy useless junk? SCANDALOUS." In Britain at least it seems to be an attempt to take the main focus off the recession itself.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:57 PM
Hazz Hazz is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

Cameron trying to use this an excuse to get a general election is such bull****.

And I bet the MPs are glad they can use the Speaker as a scapegoat for the whole thing, dodged a bullet there.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:05 PM
Lord Zero Lord Zero is a male Wales Lord Zero is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

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Originally Posted by Hazzle View Post
Cameron trying to use this an excuse to get a general election is such bull****.

And I bet the MPs are glad they can use the Speaker as a scapegoat for the whole thing, dodged a bullet there.
Pretty much, yes. Who's to say the new MPs when elected would be any more honest? Once the speaker's gone they're off the hook.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:11 PM
Crab Helmet Crab Helmet is a male United Kingdom Crab Helmet is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

First of all, the Labour Party needs to trash Gordon Brown, who is such a massive liability now, it isn't even funny. Alan Johnson should take the helm, then lead their policies back to what they were doing pre-Blair. Then, we finally have two parties which are distinguishable, rather than the barely differing messes they are now.

Anyway, none of the parties handled this particularly well. Saying sorry doesn't cut it, the whole point is that they shouldn't have done it in the first place - I don't care that it was within the rules, this exploitation is sickening. I understand the need for MPs to have a second home allowance for easier access to London, but the process of regularly flipping estates in order to keep thousands of pounds worth of taxpayers money is blatantly wrong.

The speaker did need to go. He did his best to defend the MPs, as a speaker on the whole should, but in this case, the MPs have gone wrong, and his resignation was the best thing that he could have done. However, the parties should stop using him as a scapegoat - you can't say "oh, we changed the speaker, it's fine now". It's not.

I'm supportive of Vince Cable for the next Speaker. He's said he isn't interested, but if enough people want him, he'll consider it, and I think he'd be excellent for the job. If he'd stood for the leader of the Lib Dems, I'd have considered voting for them, but instead we got Nick Clegg, Mr. Ambiguity.

Ugh. If I could vote, I wouldn't want to vote for any of the main three parties, but then my vote would be a wasted vote. I'd be stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:22 PM
Lord Zero Lord Zero is a male Wales Lord Zero is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

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Originally Posted by Crab Helmet View Post
First of all, the Labour Party needs to trash Gordon Brown, who is such a massive liability now, it isn't even funny. Alan Johnson should take the helm, then lead their policies back to what they were doing pre-Blair. Then, we finally have two parties which are distinguishable, rather than the barely differing messes they are now.
While I'm not familiar with Alan Johnson other than that he seems like a guy I wouldn't mind going out for a pint with from what little I know, I still have some respect for Gordon Brown. Cameron doesn't even have half of his spine, and anyone else would have bailed out months ago, but Brown hasn't because he's resolved to at least try and fix this problem. Whether or not he's succeeding remains to be seen.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:28 PM
Crab Helmet Crab Helmet is a male United Kingdom Crab Helmet is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

Note I didn't say I had no respect for him. I do still have some remaining respect in him, especially after his early chancellor years. However, as long as he is at the front of the party, Labour will never win.

Also, I advise you look up Alan Johnson. He's been a pretty straight player, he wasn't involved in the expenses scandal, he's a likeable person, he's intelligent, and the Conservatives admitted he'd be the Labour leader they'd fear the most.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:53 PM
Lord Zero Lord Zero is a male Wales Lord Zero is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

I think the reason Brown would never win is A) he doesn't look that appealing and B) he's getting swept up in all this controversy because he's the current Prime Minister, but the average voter doesn't think like that, of course. Hopefully if Alan Johnson does step up, the Tories are right to fear him.
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:40 PM
Figaro Figaro is a male United Kingdom Figaro is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

Remember that the Pre-blair Labour Party was the one that repetitively lost to Thatcher/Major. Blair definitely shifted the party to the right, but it made them popular again. Also, while I'm on the subject of Blair, say what you will about him, but he would have know the right thing to say in this sitation, and wouldn't have been keeping silent like Brown was until yesterday's press conference. But the main thing that needs reforming in the government, is the system that allows MPs to make ridiculous expenses claims. This isn't about individual parties, but the reputation of every MP in the house, whether they are corrupt or clean.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:14 PM
Dafoid United States Dafoid is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

This is probably the reason why Britain is considered Europe's America.

Ice cube trays? Elephant lamps? Chocolate Santas? Wow.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:34 PM
Avalanchemike Avalanchemike is a male The Byzantine Empire Avalanchemike is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crab Helmet View Post
Ugh. If I could vote, I wouldn't want to vote for any of the main three parties, but then my vote would be a wasted vote. I'd be stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.
Well, as Canada and Britain have the same system (I thank your ancestors for it greatly) I can definitely comment on this. :D

You shouldn't be voting for a party. You should vote for your representative, regardless of which party the belong to. What does it matter if the man you vote in belongs to the best party if he isn't a man you think can properly represent your views in parliament? Generally I'm a Liberal, but my Provincial government is headed by the most incompetent man I have ever met, and I think that my current local representative (A Progressive Conservative) is much better than anyone their party could put in the office. She's a genuinely kind woman, who I had the pleasure of working with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crusader View Post
This is probably the reason why Britain is considered Europe's America.

Ice cube trays? Elephant lamps? Chocolate Santas? Wow.
The reason Britain is considered Europe's America is because they haven't been completely taken over by wets. :3
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:35 PM
Figaro Figaro is a male United Kingdom Figaro is offline
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Re: MP's Expenses

My local MP, John Bercow (who could become the next speaker), is very good. He represents us well, but he is a Tory, and I couldn't bring myself to vote for them. As far as i'm concerned, a vote for Bercow is a vote for Cameron.
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