Israel and Palestine conflict

Well I am sure many members here have heard of this controversial topic before.

I'm rather impartial about it and hopefully this matter in the future can be resolved peacefully.

What are your opinions on this? =)

I wish I knew where I stood.

I don't think Israel should've been created in the first place. I still opine that there was no need for it, and that even if it was essential that one of the allies should've given up some of their own land, rather than taking land that they'd twice promised to the Palestinians.

Further, once Israel was created the Israeli politicians were very much in the wrong with their unofficial policy of forcing out all of the Palestinians, who mostly didn't care who owned the country so long as they had a place to live.

So yeah.

However, then things got fun because the Palestinians started committing terrorist attacks against Israel, which were not justified.

Now the whole thing is an utter mess that I don't see getting sorted out any time soon.

I think they should just stop hating each other, it's pointless and thats the only way it is going to end, until then the two states will stay in conflict adding death and decay to the region. They both need to recognize that they are equally to blame for the violence and work out a fair agreement or they get to suffer for their lack of compromise.

I know some people don't think Isreal should exist as a state, but they are here now and instead of taking the easy way out and denying an entire country the ability to stand unified under whatever banner they wish, why not find a more peaceful resolution so that everyone in the area can benefit from the two existing in harmony?

I have a lot of personal opinions on the legitimacy of Israel and all that, but I don't think those are relevant. The fact is that an Israeli state exists now, and isn't going anywhere, and not acknowledging its right to exist is only going to make matters worse. This is the hand that was dealt to the Israelis and Palestinians, and whether it was just or not is unimportant because that was in the past. It's the current state of affairs that needs to be dealt with, and living in the past isn't going to help anyone.

In my opinion, the only way to resolve this is to completely hand over the West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians. Whether this means one of them going over to Jordan and the other to Egypt shouldn't really matter, because it needs to be done. While Hamas has done a lot for the Palestinian people over the years, and definitely aren't anywhere near as ineffectual as Fatah, the fact remains that they will most likely never willingly co-exist peacefully with Israel. While allowing Jordan and Egypt to take over may be a headache to those countries, they are the Palestinians' best hope for a peaceful resolution to all this.

I think that Isreals creation was justified, but it shouldn't have been put where it was. They should have instead donated a small part of Europe or something. Heck, imo Germany should have been the one offering the Jews land since they were the ones who killed so many of them. The Jews should have been given land that didn't already have inhabitants, or a land whose inhabitants were willing to accept them there.

However, thats compleatly irrelevant. To have peace it is simple, just carve out a section of Isreal and give it to the Palistinians, since the two obviously can't live together.

Originally Posted by Hell Hawk

I think that Isreals creation was justified, but it shouldn't have been put where it was. They should have instead donated a small part of Europe or something. Heck, imo Germany should have been the one offering the Jews land since they were the ones who killed so many of them. The Jews should have been given land that didn't already have inhabitants, or a land whose inhabitants were willing to accept them there.

However, thats compleatly irrelevant. To have peace it is simple, just carve out a section of Isreal and give it to the Palistinians, since the two obviously can't live together.

I would think that Israel would want to keep said strip of land wouldn't you? Hence, conflict.

I'm sure the hard-line, far-right whackjobs in the Knesset would, but opinion polls among the Palestinian and Israeli populations tend to be surprisingly in favor of a two- or three-state solution.

I am not joking when I say we should just nuke the entire area. That, or we just give Palestine back and tell all the Jews to move to countries that actually want them (which will be no-one considering this economic crisis. They did not need their own state.

I think that Isreals creation was justified, but it shouldn't have been put where it was. They should have instead donated a small part of Europe or something. Heck, imo Germany should have been the one offering the Jews land since they were the ones who killed so many of them. The Jews should have been given land that didn't already have inhabitants, or a land whose inhabitants were willing to accept them there.

why should they have given the Jews a part of Europe when Palestine is their original land.

It's also kinda hard to establish a Palestinian country since it's areas are split both politically and geographically.

I can understand why the Allies gave the land of Israel to the Jewish population, because that is where the story of the Bible takes place. It's the Holy Land God promised to his people (and kicked the Egyptian's butt over via firey/haily/boily/froggy/ect-y death).

Now, did they go about doing this correctly? No. They just pushed the Palestinians out saying they couldn't live there anymore.

What they should have done was convince Palestine to allow the Jews to move in and peacefully live/worship there.

So we can only blame one person for starting this mess. Adolf Hitler. If he hadn't done what he did, then they wouldn't be in this situation they are in.

It's ironic I say this because I also root for the Isrealities. I want them to rise up and show everyone that they are NOT to be messed with. They're there, get over it. Either accept it and live with them (NOTE: They are not forcing you to conform to their life) or get out.

Originally Posted by L176

why should they have given the Jews a part of Europe when Palestine is their original land.

Because if you're going by "original land" everyone in the world owns all of Africa and most of South-Western Asia. Then about half owns Eastern Asia and the other half owns Europe and the Middle East.

It's a meaningless claim. Borders change. Civilizations rise, fall, and migrate. It happens, trying to turn back the clock six thousand years is...foolish, at best.

Originally Posted by The Arbitrator

I am not joking when I say we should just nuke the entire area.

Atomic bombs, what don't they solve?

I'd say that we try to make Isreal less dependant on the US, then just leave the whole place alone.

Originally Posted by The Arbitrator

I am not joking when I say we should just nuke the entire area. That, or we just give Palestine back and tell all the Jews to move to countries that actually want them (which will be no-one considering this economic crisis. They did not need their own state.

Nuking them is, in fact, a completely useless solution.

See, the problem is contained to there. Which means the only people who will die or be in any way affected by this are the same ones we'd be killing.

Seems counter-productive, at best.

I don't think it's about who's land it was originally any more. It shouldn't be. Dwelling on the past doesn't work.

Now, the Israelis deserve a home. When the idea was first brought up, and when the Israelis were buying land legally in Palestine, the Arab leaders actually supported them.

The Israelis, however, are in the wrong mostly because they claim to be a civilized country and continue to wrong the Palestinian people over and over. I would have more respect for the Israelis if they simply came out and said "Yeah, we're jerks" and withdrew from the UN.

The Palestinians need a state and Israel need to stop bludgeoning them over the head and keeping them down.

The surrounding Arab countries also need to get in there and stop giving money to politicians and give money to build infrastructure. The Palestinians are Muslim Arabs and *gasp* Egypt, Syria, and Saudi Arabia are Muslim Arab countries.

I've done this for History.

I'm not really sure where I stand on this, but I do know that if the Jews had picked a different landmass that nobody else owned then they all would have been fine.

On the other hand, they did need somewhere to stay after being ostracized and persecuted for centuries, and there were already so many Jews in that area at the time...


I've learned to look from both sides of the story.

Originally Posted by Link the Zora

I can understand why the Allies gave the land of Israel to the Jewish population, because that is where the story of the Bible takes place. It's the Holy Land God promised to his people (and kicked the Egyptian's butt over via firey/haily/boily/froggy/ect-y death).

Now, did they go about doing this correctly? No. They just pushed the Palestinians out saying they couldn't live there anymore.

What they should have done was convince Palestine to allow the Jews to move in and peacefully live/worship there.

So we can only blame one person for starting this mess. Adolf Hitler. If he hadn't done what he did, then they wouldn't be in this situation they are in.

It's ironic I say this because I also root for the Isrealities. I want them to rise up and show everyone that they are NOT to be messed with. They're there, get over it. Either accept it and live with them (NOTE: They are not forcing you to conform to their life) or get out.

1. I'm pretty sure that the Bible had nothing to do with why the Allies let the Israelis have the land. It had something to do with the fact that there were already so many Jews in that area (most of whom had fled Hitler), and that they were in conflict with the Palestinians.

2. At first they encouraged the Palestinians to live with them in harmony, but when they saw large amounts of Jews immigrating, they attempted to peacefully transfer the Palestinian Arabs to neighbouring countries, so they could absorb millions of Jews. This failed, obviously. But atleast the Israelis attempted to do something peacefully.

3. Hitler is not fully to blame. The blame belongs to centuries of persecution and forced emmigration. Hitler was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

4. Yeah, but look at this from the Palestinian point of view. Let's say I kicked you out of your house. Are you just going to let me stay there? What if I rennovated the house and made it look better than ever. Do I still deserve to keep the house?

Originally Posted by Link the Zora

So we can only blame one person for starting this mess. Adolf Hitler.

Or, in obnoxious Arial Narrow size 4, we could just say that the allies handled this extremely wrong and it was in holocaust guilt they threw out the Palestines.

Originally Posted by Link the Zora

If he hadn't done what he did, then they wouldn't be in this situation they are in.

That can be said about everything.

Originally Posted by Link the Zora

It's ironic I say this because I also root for the Isrealities. I want them to rise up and show everyone that they are NOT to be messed with.

Don't worry, they got nukes.

Originally Posted by Link the Zora

They're there, get over it. Either accept it and live with them (NOTE: They are not forcing you to conform to their life) or get out.

Red part: Sure they are.


Israelis deserve land, but they don't deserve it this way.

Originally Posted by John

Nuking them is, in fact, a completely useless solution.

See, the problem is contained to there. Which means the only people who will die or be in any way affected by this are the same ones we'd be killing.

Seems counter-productive, at best.

Exterminate the problem and it ceases to be a problem. Both sides have committed a variety of injustices, and we're probably lucky that they have each other to focus on, because once one side or the other is eradicated, where will the victors focus next?

Originally Posted by fratey

Or, in obnoxious Arial Narrow size 4, we could just say that the allies handled this extremely wrong and it was in holocaust guilt they threw out the Palestines.

That can be said about everything.

Don't worry, they got nukes.
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Red part: Sure they are.


Israelis deserve land, but they don't deserve it this way.

You don't like how I arrange my posts?

Anyway, I'm gonna turn to Double A's posts now kthxbai.

@ Double A. You have a good point there. If someone evicted me from my home, I'd do whatever I can to get it back.

...

I think I've been listening to the wrong media for my info...It's just that to me, the Isrealites are the victims here. Who are the ones with the suicide bombers?

Originally Posted by Cody

Well, no, the allies didn't throw out the Palestines in the first place - the idea was for them to live together. It was the Israeli government that scared them all out afterwards.

Makes it even worse. ;3

Originally Posted by The Arbitrator

Exterminate the problem and it ceases to be a problem. Both sides have committed a variety of injustices, and we're probably lucky that they have each other to focus on, because once one side or the other is eradicated, where will the victors focus next?

Probably nowhere.

All this viciousness is out of a sense of being badly wronged and having no other recourse (this is on both sides.)

Should one side finally "win" odds are that would be the end of it.

People are not innately evil. They do what they think is right and good for the situation they're in.