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View Poll Results: Do you believe sexual orientation is a choice?
Yes 17 27.87%
No 44 72.13%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 05:50 PM
Ŧҽҽᶄɑƴ Ŧҽҽᶄɑƴ is a male United Kingdom Ŧҽҽᶄɑƴ is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devout Justice View Post
I don't want to debate, but isn't it proven that sexual preference is not based on our genes or how much testosterone or estrogen/progesterone we have in us? I don't mean this as any type of "attack" toward you. When you said "genetics" that made me remember that piece of information from my Biology teacher.
Your biology teacher needs to go back to school.
Research has shown that genetics may very well be a factor in determining sexual orientation time and time again.
Last Edited by Ŧҽҽᶄɑƴ; 04-18-2009 at 05:54 PM. Reason:
  #102 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 05:52 PM
John John is a male Canada John is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devout Justice View Post
Agreed.
I don't like that entire argument because it implicitly has that acting on attraction is innately bad if you're gay.

Quote:
I don't want to debate, but isn't it proven that sexual preference is not based on our genes or how much testosterone or estrogen/progesterone we have in us? I don't mean this as any type of "attack" toward you. When you said "genetics" that made me remember that piece of information from my Biology teacher.
Genetics likely isn't the cause, no, but it provided a nice catch-all placeholder for "things beyond our control."

What does "cause" gayness? Current ideas seem to show that hormonal exposure in the womb might play a role, as may some other factors. The only difference between such things and genetics doesn't particularly matter for this discussion.
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Last Edited by John; 04-18-2009 at 05:55 PM. Reason:
  #103 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:01 PM
fratey Sweden fratey is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

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Originally Posted by Soren707 View Post
Agreed.
I'll just copypaste my response to sugarpoultry to you. Feel free to answer it - she has failed to, so far, like usual.

I find the ease with which you dismiss my romantic dreams to be both insulting and patently offensive. What you are really saying is, "...in order for you to live a moral life, you can never have sexual relations and you must live a life devoid of true romantic love. You have to give up on your dreams of finding your soul mate."
Prejudice often demands something of others that the prejudiced person is unwilling to demand of himself.
How unfortunate that you have such a hardened heart that one of your major goals is to prevent a certain group of people from loving each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soren707 View Post
I don't want to debate, but isn't it proven that sexual preference is not based on our genes or how much testosterone or estrogen/progesterone we have in us? I don't mean this as any type of "attack" toward you. When you said "genetics" that made me remember that piece of information from my Biology teacher.
Obviously it's not testosterone/estrogen because there's manly homosexuals and there's feminine homosexuals - it's hard to believe, but there's more in your brain than just testosterone/estrogen.
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Last Edited by fratey; 04-18-2009 at 06:02 PM. Reason:
  #104 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Astarael Australia Astarael is online now

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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Actually, I think it's still not absolutely known whether the factors that cause homosexuality are predominantly biological or environmental, since a genetic cause has never been explicitly proven.

However, some studies have come up with some interesting results. For instance, it has been found that homosexuality tends to run in families, which at first glance does seem to suggest a genetic cause. However, one could make the case that this is actually an environmental influence - if someone has a large part of their family who are openly gay, it may be easier for them to be open about their own homosexuality than someone whose family is (apparently) entirely or predominantly heterosexual, and who thus is more likely to remain in the closet. Those studies really only make the case for families in which people are openly gay.

I think most scientists believe that it is a more complex combination of genetics and environmental factors that influence whether an individual is gay or not. See, for instance, http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/113259.php.

Personally, as I've said before, I have my doubts about there being "gay genes" that just switch on a person's homosexuality at birth. What about bisexuals and those who are bicurious? How does that explain people whose sexuality morphs over time?
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Last Edited by Astarael; 04-18-2009 at 06:09 PM. Reason:
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Condi Rice Condi Rice is a male Condi Rice is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devout Justice View Post
I don't want to debate, but isn't it proven that sexual preference is not based on our genes or how much testosterone or estrogen/progesterone we have in us? I don't mean this as any type of "attack" toward you. When you said "genetics" that made me remember that piece of information from my Biology teacher.
From my knowledge, I don't think there is any significant evidence to prove there is a correlation between genetics and homosexuality.

I've heard of many studies claiming there is a different brain structures between homosexuals and heterosexuals, or similar related studies claiming biological factors to some extent determines how sexuality.

However not many of these studies were able to be replicated and produce the same findings. Most of the findings found in the studies, are very insignificant and don't provide overwhelming evidence to convince that there is definite a link between biology and homosexuality.

I do personally believe that some biological factors to some extent determine our sexuality, however the current studies have yet to gather evidence that proves this without any form of speculation.
Last Edited by Condi Rice; 04-18-2009 at 06:06 PM. Reason:
  #106 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:06 PM
Dafoid United States Dafoid is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

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Originally Posted by Teekay View Post
Research has shown that genetics may very well be a factor in determining sexual orientation time and time again.
The discovery of the "gay gene" was eventually withdrawn.

This makes sense on a common sense level as well, because it is hard to see multiple gays in a family tree, even when they do reproduce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
Genetics likely isn't the cause, no, but it provided a nice catch-all placeholder for "things beyond our control."
You got it first.
  #107 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:07 PM
Slime Canada Slime is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

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Originally Posted by John View Post
I don't like that entire argument because it implicitly has that acting on attraction is innately bad if you're gay.
Then again, it's also good for the sake of debate, because it shows just how flimsy the "choice" argument is.

Since attraction is biological and inherently uncontrollable, the only way for someone to "choose" their sexual orientation would be to act upon those natural feelings. And since the act of doing so is frowned upon solely because it has been socially unacceptable for a long time, this proves that society's aversion to homosexuality is just like any taboo: irrational.

The main reason people bring up the "is homosexuality a choice" issue is because they usually assume that it is unnatural. But since attraction is a naturally-occurring phenomenon in and of itself, the motivation behind asking the question can essentially be rendered moot. Thus homosexuality isn't a choice, and acting upon homosexual desires shouldn't be considered wrong.
Last Edited by Slime; 04-18-2009 at 06:08 PM. Reason:
  #108 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:08 PM
fratey Sweden fratey is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crusader View Post
The discovery of the "gay gene" was eventually withdrawn.
He said genetics, not gay gene.
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  #109 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:10 PM
Charon Charon is a male Finland Charon is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

It's like me and my foot fetish. Did I ask to have it? No, but damn, I love it!
  #110 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:13 PM
Dafoid United States Dafoid is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fratey View Post
He said genetics, not gay gene.
Genetics has to do with genes.
  #111 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:13 PM
Condi Rice Condi Rice is a male Condi Rice is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fratey View Post
He said genetics, not gay gene.
I think the gay gene theory was rejected due to the study was replicated but was not able to produce the same findings.
  #112 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:13 PM
fratey Sweden fratey is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkanaGeneral197 View Post
It's like me and my foot fetish. Did I ask to have it? No, but damn, I love it!
Precisely. I didn't choose to be bi, but damn, boys are SO hot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crusader View Post
Genetics has to do with genes.
He didn't specify anything about a "gay gene". It's like him talking about fluids and then ignoring his point because you can make cheese out of milk.
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Last Edited by fratey; 04-18-2009 at 06:14 PM. Reason:
  #113 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:21 PM
Dafoid United States Dafoid is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fratey View Post
Precisely. I didn't choose to be bi, but damn, boys are SO hot.
Wouldn't being bi involve girls too?
Quote:
He didn't specify anything about a "gay gene". It's like him talking about fluids and then ignoring his point because you can make cheese out of milk.
The "gay gene" scientific discussion was why genetics seemed like a convincing answer to most.
  #114 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:34 PM
PocketCucco PocketCucco is a female United Kingdom PocketCucco is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

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Originally Posted by sugarpoultry View Post
I think the choice is the "acting" upon it. You can't help being attracted to someone the same sex or whatever, but you can choose not to act upon it. You can change too. It's possible.

That is all I will say about that.
So, what you're saying is that someone who is homosexual should keep it to themselves and 'change'?

Do you know how many people surpress their homosexuality just to try and lead an acceptably 'normal' life? So that people like you won't be judgemental?

Someone in my family did that for most of his life, he was married and had kids, but he had known since he was very young that he was gay. Eventually he could'nt keep it to himself anymore and came out. He is now married to a man and very happy.

Think of all the pain and misery he must have gone through trying to keep such a big secret from the world. Its so awful that people can't just accept others for who they are. So what if you are interested in the same sex? There is no problem at all with that, its no different to the opposite gender loving eachother. I just really wish people could be more open minded and accept people for what they are. They do not need to change because people like you can't accept it!
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Last Edited by PocketCucco; 04-18-2009 at 06:34 PM. Reason:
  #115 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:43 PM
Charon Charon is a male Finland Charon is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

I know it's not the same thing, but my foot fetish is a "deviation" none the less. When people ask me "Why don't you get help?" I say "I'm happy with it. Too bad for you" and flip them off. Even if I did get "help", it'd never be the same as having the foot fetish. I just can't seem to like tits all that much. If I was "cured", I'd probably become asexual, which can't be any fun. I don't know, but I assume it would have the same effect as changing their orientation.
  #116 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:46 PM
AXavierB AXavierB is a male AXavierB is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketCucco View Post
Someone in my family did that for most of his life, he was married and had kids, but he had known since he was very young that he was gay. Eventually he could'nt keep it to himself anymore and came out. He is now married to a man and very happy.
^Exactly, that's another reason why the idea of it being a choice is not only wrong, but unhealthy.

Suppose a gay man tries to reject the "homosexual lifestyle" and settle down with a woman. The pair of them have a family, but eventually he can't lie to himself anymore and decides to tell her the truth.

Then, he's not the only person who gets hurt. The woman he married also suffers from his dishonesty and if they have kids, it would be emotionally detrimental to them too.
Last Edited by AXavierB; 04-18-2009 at 06:48 PM. Reason:
  #117 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 06:46 PM
Condi Rice Condi Rice is a male Condi Rice is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

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Originally Posted by IkanaGeneral197 View Post
If I was "cured", I'd probably become asexual, which can't be any fun. I don't know, but I assume it would have the same effect as changing their orientation.
Actually I'm asexual. I personally find the idea of having a sexual relationship disgusting. No offence to heterosexuals, homosexuals and bisexuals out there. XD

One less thing to be worried about. Asexuals are normal and have a fun life just like heterosexuals etc

Life isn't always about sex =)
Last Edited by Condi Rice; 04-18-2009 at 06:52 PM. Reason:
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:31 PM
fratey Sweden fratey is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crusader View Post
Wouldn't being bi involve girls too?
Sure it does. However, the boys are the deviation here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crusader View Post
The "gay gene" scientific discussion was why genetics seemed like a convincing answer to most.
the 'gay gene' in itself isn't a fact, but genetics in general isn't disproven.
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  #119 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-18-2009, 07:53 PM
Dislutfate Dislutfate is a female Sweden Dislutfate is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

this might sound stupid but.....
I don't think homosexuality is a choice
I don't understand why people WOULD CHOOSE to be a target of such ridicule
or choose to strain their relationships with their family/close ones
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:02 PM
Charon Charon is a male Finland Charon is offline
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Re: Sexual Orientation - A Choice?

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Originally Posted by GDKdium Nitrate View Post
this might sound stupid but.....
I don't think homosexuality is a choice
I don't understand why people WOULD CHOOSE to be a target of such ridicule
or choose to strain their relationships with their family/close ones
No, not stupid at all.
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