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  #1061 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:29 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Calibur View Post
I don't have much faith in the Bible myself. The only part of it that could be considered actually true is everythig that Jesus said. Everything else...well, you can write anything in a book and there will be people who blindly follow it, taking it as the word of God. So, following this, I ask: Did Jesus himself ever condemn homosexuals?
Ahh! You bring up an excellent point! Jesus never did condemn homosexuals! The reason for this is really quite simple-

Jesus came to teach the Jews- the Jews were a people well-grounded in the law (the Torah). They knew what the Bible said about homosexuality. It was known by almost every Jew. There was no reason to make this point to them. True, Jesus came to teach all, but at that point it time, it would have seemed silly to go into that can of worms.
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  #1062 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:31 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

But Jesus is very much alive! He wrote the Bible through his own people. Quite miraculous, don't you think? Well, it was nice talking to you. I'm done with you for now, Enuf3.
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  #1063 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:34 PM
Ambivalence Ambivalence is a male United States Ambivalence is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Wait, I was under the impression that the Bible was written after Jesus' death.
  #1064 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:35 PM
El Dimentio El Dimentio is a male China El Dimentio is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Calibur View Post
I don't have much faith in the Bible myself. The only part of it that could be considered actually true is everythig that Jesus said. Everything else...well, you can write anything in a book and there will be people who blindly follow it, taking it as the word of God. So, following this, I ask: Did Jesus himself ever condemn homosexuals?
I recall him saving a gay man's partner somewhere in the bible, but I forgot where exactly.
  #1065 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:35 PM
Enuf3 Enuf3 is a male United_States Enuf3 is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Well fine. If you want to believe that.. I'm gonna believe that there was a one legged hobo named Tobias who was God's cousin and he told the people of Munchkin Land IV that you were only going to Heaven if you ate apples while hanging upside down over a body of water.

Quite miraculous.
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  #1066 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:36 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_Mexico View Post
Alter:

I found most of your response agreeable. There's just one part that bothered me.



I'm sure you're aware that there is a fundamental difference between stealing, murder, and homosexuality.

The first two infringe on the rights of other humans. We don't need the bible to tell us that.

Homosexuality, meanwhile, is harmless. Even if you believe it is damaging to the soul, it would be the perpetrator's own soul. They're not infringing on the rights of others at all.
Yes, they are different, but the Bible says that sin is sin. (Found in James, part of the NT) Lying and murder are both wrong. On is not better or worse than the other.

I don't think I need to go into AIDS. I know several people who died through AIDS. Given to them by their own parents, who had been gay. Reason enough right there...
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  #1067 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:39 PM
8bit 8bit is a male United Nations 8bit is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter View Post
Now to begin: Personally, I am against gay marriage or homosexual civil unions. The first reason is that I am a Christian, and it is clearly stated in the Bible that it is WRONG.
And I believe that religion is WRONG, however, I will not try to outlaw churches.

Quote:
The second would be that people are not born gay. They may be born with an orientation to be more attracted to the same gender, but it all comes down to a choice.

On a side note, I should point out to all of you that (weather pro-gay or not) who love "science" that it has not been proven that there is a gay gene. All efforts that have attempted to prove that there is one have failed. This point is not arguable IMO, not will I discuss it.
It's pretty arguable, though. A 1993 study by Dr D. Hammer from the national institute of health has shown that people who claim to be gay tend to have the same alleles in the Xq28 region of the X chromosome. Likewise, studies have shown that people who claim to be homosexual tend to have more relatives who also claim to be homosexual than someone who claims to be heterosexual.

Beyond that, there are studies in brain structure, epigenetics, and pharomones which all point to a biological differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals.

Quote:
The third would be that marriage has almost always been regarded as a relationship between a man and a woman. Why the sudden change? Is it cool? Perhaps so, but I believe there is more to it. I'll touch on this later.
Women have almost always been considered the legal property of their fathers or husbands. Why did we change this?

Quote:
Which side beats up up old ladies in church parking lots?
Neither.

Quote:
Which side runs into churches screaming their side of the issue and persecuting innocent people?
Neither.

Quote:
Which side sets houses and churches on fire?
Neither.

Quote:
Which side starts riots in the streets?
Both.

Quote:
The answer to all of the above would be the gay supporters/activists.
Source? I've never heard of a gay-rights supporter who has beaten up old ladies in church parking lots and set houses on fire.

Quote:
The other side is not without blame, either. There have been anti-gay sermons preached, as well as a few random hate crimes performed by certain extremists.
While I don't hear much about gay on straight violence, I've heard quite a bit about straight on gay violence. Gay bars have been bombed, gays have been tortured and murdered. There's even an area in the town I live in colloquially named 'Gay Man's Drop' because some years ago, a group of men abducted a gay man, assaulted him, decapitated him, and threw him into a river at that spot.


Illegal? I'll need to see some proof of this. Look at it this way- unethical is a point of view. From my standpoint, it is unethical to have homosexual relationships. Heh heh... I should also point out that there are more people who think it is unethical than those who don't. Disagree? Then why was it passed? In CA of all places??

Quote:
As for illegal, our Constitution makes it evident that all people must have the same rights. But look at it this way- will you treat someone who is a child molester the same way as one who "isn't"? Should you have let them babysit your children, just because they have the same "rights"? From many people's point of view, it's a very similar case.
A child molester has hurt someone else in the act of becoming a child molester. A homosexual man or woman has not.

And yes, I believe that someone who is religious should have the same freedoms as myself even though I believe their faith is unethical and illogical.
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  #1068 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:39 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dimentio View Post
I recall him saving a gay man's partner somewhere in the bible, but I forgot where exactly.
Really? I'm afraid that I can't seem to find that part... You're going to have to do better than making false statements. Now you may actually believe this to be true... what if it was? Would that be wrong? Jesus healed many people- all of them sinners. As I just posted, the Bible says that all sin is sin.
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  #1069 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:40 PM
Ambivalence Ambivalence is a male United States Ambivalence is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
I don't think I need to go into AIDS. I know several people who died through AIDS. Given to them by their own parents, who had been gay. Reason enough right there...
Homosexuality has nothing to do with the transmission of HIV.
Last Edited by Ambivalence; 01-11-2009 at 07:41 PM. Reason:
  #1070 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:42 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skar View Post
Homosexuality has nothing to do with the transmission of HIV.
I said AIDS, not HIV. Similar, yet different. AIDS has been directly linked to homosexual behavior.
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Last Edited by Alter; 01-11-2009 at 07:43 PM. Reason:
  #1071 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Ambivalence Ambivalence is a male United States Ambivalence is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

HIV causes AIDs.

HIV and AIDs is linked to SEXUAL behavior.
Last Edited by Ambivalence; 01-11-2009 at 07:45 PM. Reason:
  #1072 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:46 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

As I said before, I condemn violence on both sides. I believe that the gay on straight violence has been far worse.

Everyone, please remember that I do not fight for anti-gays. I fight for traditional marriage. They are two very different things.
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  #1073 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:46 PM
Water Otter Water Otter is a female United States Water Otter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter View Post
I said AIDS, not HIV. Similar, yet different. AIDS has been directly linked to homosexual behavior.
It has also been linked to Heterosexual behaviour, it just started in the gay population. It doesn't matter what sex method you use HIV will be spread if you're not careful.
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  #1074 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:48 PM
Enuf3 Enuf3 is a male United_States Enuf3 is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Gays aren't the only ones who get AIDS... Straight people pass it on as well. You can also get it from dirty needles and such.
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  #1075 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:50 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skar View Post
HIV causes AIDs.

HIV and AIDs is linked to SEXUAL behavior.
As you can see here, it IS caused by either. Yes, you are right, but they are still 2 different things

Quote:
Acquired immune deficiency syndrome or acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) is a set of symptoms and infections resulting from the damage to the human immune system caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV).[1]

This condition progressively reduces the effectiveness of the immune system and leaves individuals susceptible to opportunistic infections and tumors. HIV is transmitted through direct contact of a mucous membrane or the bloodstream with a bodily fluid containing HIV, such as blood, semen, vaginal fluid, preseminal fluid, and breast milk.[2][3]

This transmission can involve anal, vaginal or oral sex, blood transfusion, contaminated hypodermic needles, exchange between mother and baby during pregnancy, childbirth, or breastfeeding, or other exposure to one of the above bodily fluids.

AIDS is now a pandemic.[4] In 2007, an estimated 33.2 million people lived with the disease worldwide, and it killed an estimated 2.1 million people, including 330,000 children.[5] Over three-quarters of these deaths occurred in sub-Saharan Africa,[5] retarding economic growth and destroying human capital.[6]

Most researchers believe that HIV originated in sub-Saharan Africa during the twentieth century.[7] AIDS was first recognized by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 1981 and its cause, HIV, identified by American and French scientists in the early 1980s.[8]

Although treatments for AIDS and HIV can slow the course of the disease, there is currently no vaccine or cure. Antiretroviral treatment reduces both the mortality and the morbidity of HIV infection, but these drugs are expensive and routine access to antiretroviral medication is not available in all countries.[9] Due to the difficulty in treating HIV infection, preventing infection is a key aim in controlling the AIDS epidemic, with health organizations promoting safe sex and needle-exchange programmes in attempts to slow the spread of the virus.
It is much more likely to occur between males though, as you can see. Anyway, Raichu is correct. May we move on now?
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Last Edited by Alter; 01-11-2009 at 07:53 PM. Reason:
  #1076 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:53 PM
El Dimentio El Dimentio is a male China El Dimentio is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Heh, I probably cannot explain why homosexuality is not a sin better than this guy:

Huge article

It even includes references to the Greek bible to prove biased translations.

Even the Catholic church recognizes that homosexuality, is not a sin. (Note that homosexuality and homosexual sex are two different things as not all homosexuals engage in anal sex with others)
  #1077 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:57 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by El Dimentio View Post
Heh, I probably cannot explain why homosexuality is not a sin better than this guy:

Huge article

It even includes references to the Greek bible to prove biased translations.

Even the Catholic church recognizes that homosexuality, is not a sin. (Note that homosexuality and homosexual sex are two different things as not all homosexuals engage in anal sex with others)
Yes, I've read that before. You are right, the orientation and behavior are two different things.

BUT... if you'd read one of my previous posts, you'd see how I explained why Jesus never mentioned Homosexuality.

Plus, you or an article cannot speak for the entire Catholic church. Not to mention that Christians and Catholic hold different viewpoints (frequently).
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Last Edited by Alter; 01-11-2009 at 07:58 PM. Reason:
  #1078 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:59 PM
Ambivalence Ambivalence is a male United States Ambivalence is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

So if Man A puts his penis in Man B's rectum, that single moment condemns both Man A and Man B to eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

And I thought that the whole shellfish thing was crazy.
  #1079 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 08:04 PM
Alter Alter is a male United States Alter is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skar View Post
So if Man A puts his penis in Man B's rectum, that single moment condemns both Man A and Man B to eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

And I thought that the whole shellfish thing was crazy.
That's not what I said. What you're describing is sin. Sin includes (but is not limited to) stealing, lying, murder, rape, lust, disobedience, and worshiping false gods. If anyone commits any of these acts at any point in his or her life, they have sinned, and are destined to go to hell. If you decide to follow Jesus, he removes these sins from your life. They are no more. There are many gay Christians, just as there are many lying Christians. Both have sinned and need forgiveness. Without it, yes, they will go to hell.

BTW, could you not be so descript?
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Last Edited by Alter; 01-11-2009 at 08:04 PM. Reason:
  #1080 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 08:08 PM
Ambivalence Ambivalence is a male United States Ambivalence is offline
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Re: Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by Alter View Post
That's not what I said. What you're describing is sin. Sin includes (but is not limited to) stealing, lying, murder, rape, lust, disobedience, and worshiping false gods. If anyone commits any of these acts at any point in his or her life, they have sinned, and are destined to go to hell. If you decide to follow Jesus, he removes these sins from your life. They are no more. There are many gay Christians, just as there are many lying Christians. Both have sinned and need forgiveness. Without it, yes, they will go to hell.

BTW, could you not be so descript?
Sounds a whole lot like brainwashing to me, and besides, if millions of people like me are going to hell, hell must not be so bad. Who would want to go to a heaven full of fundamentalist bigots?

And no, I will will describe it the way it is.
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