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  #21 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-31-2008, 04:39 PM
Pie_Dictator Canada Pie_Dictator is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

Pentecostal Christianity allows any sex between eachother within marriage, if nobody said that yet.

Also, for those who are wondering where the Bible says no masturbation, read the NT:

Jesus talked about how your thoughts have to be pure, and just the thought of something immoral (i.e. having sex) was considered adultery because you already committed the sin in your mind, so yeah, no masturbation.
Last Edited by Emperor Mateus; 08-31-2008 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Double posting is a no-no Reply With Quote
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Old 08-31-2008, 04:50 PM
Iroas Iroas is a male Netherlands Iroas is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Emerald View Post
Whoever told you that is a hypocrite.....It's definitely not true, whoever said that must have something stuck up their ass or something.
If it's a sin, it can get you in hell. Last time I heard sodomy was a sin, but perhaps I am misinformed? <<




Quote:
What makes you say that?
And yes, God does forgive.
The whole christian concept of hell is pretty medieval, isn't it? It's a reflection of that era and culture.

And the only way to avoid hell is to do what the church says what you should do, I believe at one point even thinking something wrong could get you in hell. If people believe in what the church said, then the church (or those running it) had absolute controle over the population. Obey the church or go to hell, basicly.
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  #23 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-31-2008, 04:58 PM
Pie_Dictator Canada Pie_Dictator is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

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Originally Posted by Iroas View Post
And the only way to avoid hell is to do what the church says what you should do, I believe at one point even thinking something wrong could get you in hell. If people believe in what the church said, then the church (or those running it) had absolute controle over the population. Obey the church or go to hell, basicly.
No, that's what they want you to believe.

If you really looked closely, God never even intended for church to be as it is today. In the Bible, it never mentions a building, a pastor, or even tithing (in the New Testament). Rather the Church was meant to be the people, not a building, and everybody was supposed to be actively involved sharing thoughts and questions with each other, not a whole bunch of people listening to one guy spew Bible quotes over and over. Albeit, some churches nowadays I'm sure are okay in God eyes but most have their own views and ideas about Christianity which are twisted from the truth so they are most convenient to them. This is why I think there is so much separation among 'believers' today because the people who run the institutional church do it there own way and not Gods way. Why do you think Christianity is so repulsive and unappealing to non-believers today? Wasn't Gods original plan for Christians to be all on the same page?

If this interests you, try reading the book Pagan Christianity, it talks about how lots of traditions and beliefs of the modern church are not from God, but from man.

So don't follow the church, but rather trust in the Bible
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  #24 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-31-2008, 05:03 PM
Redonkulous Homunculus United States Redonkulous Homunculus is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iroas View Post
If it's a sin, it can get you in hell. Last time I heard sodomy was a sin, but perhaps I am misinformed? <<
"sodomy" is not defined in the bible. The Old Testament talks about the city of Sodom being a siful city, and mentions something about sins of the flesh or something kind of vague, but nowhere does the bible actually define sodomy as butt-sex. In fact, it was widely practiced in Roman times. So It's basically the clergy taking a biblically vague refference and making it mean something it may not have been intended to mean. Of course,the bible does say that a man should not lay with a man as one lays with a woman, so I suppose that's pretty clear- but that's only in refference to GAY butt-sex, not man-and-woman, married couple butt-sex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iroas View Post
The whole christian concept of hell is pretty medieval, isn't it? It's a reflection of that era and culture.

And the only way to avoid hell is to do what the church says what you should do, I believe at one point even thinking something wrong could get you in hell. If people believe in what the church said, then the church (or those running it) had absolute controle over the population. Obey the church or go to hell, basicly.
I'll assume that by "the church" you mean catholocism, since there are MANY christian denominations, and they all have their own hierarchies within them. some are united, some aren't but catholicism is the most organized. anyway- it was "obey the church or go to hell" back in the days when the common person could not read. they relied on the church to dictate the holy word to them. That's when Dante wrote his famous divine comedy, and the whole 7 circles of hell stuff was invented. the Church LITERALLY took a work of fiction and tought it as canon. then it became common for regular people to read, so the church had to kind of gloss-over and fluff up their doctrine since they could no longer blatantly lie to the poor folks. now it's kind of stuck in a realm of vague, mostly irrelevant, outdated rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pie_Dictator View Post
Also, for those who are wondering where the Bible says no masturbation, read the NT:

Jesus talked about how your thoughts have to be pure, and just the thought of something immoral (i.e. having sex) was considered adultery because you already committed the sin in your mind, so yeah, no masturbation.
but what if your husband is away on a business trip and you really miss him? is it a sin for a wife to be horny and masturbate to thoughts of her husband?


PS- the whole "it can get you in hell" thing is not really a good argument because different types of religions all have different ideas on how one is accepted into heaven, and how sin affects that.
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  #25 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-31-2008, 05:29 PM
Chad Chad is a male United States Chad is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

I have never believed that simply thinking of something wrong is as bad as doing or attempting something wrong.

Otherwise, I'm already a murdering rapist. Probably more things, but that's what first popped into my head.

With two people consenting, I don't see any problem with any kind of sex within marriage.
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  #26 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-31-2008, 05:59 PM
master K United Kingdom master K is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

I think any kind of sex is fine, in or out of marriage as long as the people involved are consenting.

And frankly, even if people disagree with it, because of religion or whatever, that's fine. But I don't see where they get the idea that they have the right to tell other people to stop it.
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:23 PM
Aniday Aniday is a male United States Aniday is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

Catholics and other religious people believe wasting sperm through masturbation or what have you is wrong because they misinterpret the passage where God struck down a dude for pulling out too soon. But it wasn't because he killed millions of tiny babies. It's because he was told to make a baby.. and he disobeyed.

Conservative Christians believe masturbation is wrong because of what goes on in your mind when doing it. The act itself isn't wrong to them, it's what you're thinking/looking at. So if you can get off to a blank wall, go for it.

Conservative Christians also believe you can have whatever sex you want (not sure about anal, whether there's a verse being specific about it, or if some just get it from the "no homosexuality" part) in marriage and have fun doing it without the intension to make a baby. And a lot of religions don't like sex outside marriage... but we all knew that. If they would use the Bible aaand some reasoning, they would have more validity.. instead of just pointing to the Bible when talking to non-believers about it.
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:38 PM
Iroas Iroas is a male Netherlands Iroas is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pie_Dictator View Post
No, that's what they want you to believe.

If you really looked closely, God never even intended for church to be as it is today. In the Bible, it never mentions a building, a pastor, or even tithing (in the New Testament). Rather the Church was meant to be the people, not a building, and everybody was supposed to be actively involved sharing thoughts and questions with each other, not a whole bunch of people listening to one guy spew Bible quotes over and over. Albeit, some churches nowadays I'm sure are okay in God eyes but most have their own views and ideas about Christianity which are twisted from the truth so they are most convenient to them. This is why I think there is so much separation among 'believers' today because the people who run the institutional church do it there own way and not Gods way. Why do you think Christianity is so repulsive and unappealing to non-believers today? Wasn't Gods original plan for Christians to be all on the same page?

If this interests you, try reading the book Pagan Christianity, it talks about how lots of traditions and beliefs of the modern church are not from God, but from man.

So don't follow the church, but rather trust in the Bible
Yes and this is my point:
I am of the opinion that when the christian belief was gaining popularity, people saw a potential business of some sort. That is what I meant by people (ab)using religion by bending it to their own liking.
During the middle ages, Christianity, the way I see it, was basicly used to brainwash uneducated people, who didn't know any better, so they could be controlled/dominated.


I would trust the bible, but the bible to me seems like it was intended more like a ..err.. code of conduct(?) for how to live your life rather than something to be taken literally.

Besides, the way God, Heaven and Hell are described in Christianity, to me, seems too much of a product of human imagination.

(edit: However I do believe in the most basic concepts of it, more or less. God, for example, might not even be an omnipotent being of some sort, but something more abstract.

The universe is far, FAR more complex than some Atheist make it out to be, so complex that something like "life after death" isn't that far fetched in the end.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margar View Post
"sodomy" is not defined in the bible. The Old Testament talks about the city of Sodom being a siful city, and mentions something about sins of the flesh or something kind of vague, but nowhere does the bible actually define sodomy as butt-sex. In fact, it was widely practiced in Roman times. So It's basically the clergy taking a biblically vague refference and making it mean something it may not have been intended to mean. Of course,the bible does say that a man should not lay with a man as one lays with a woman, so I suppose that's pretty clear- but that's only in refference to GAY butt-sex, not man-and-woman, married couple butt-sex.
Yes, I just read about this, aparantly sodomy refers too "the act of anal intercourse, oral intercourse, as well as bestiality". I think any form of sexual intercourse other then normal sex would be wrong according to the bible. I'm not an expert in how to interpretate biblical texts though.
However I think we can conclude that having anal sex, regardless of it being done to a man or woman would be wrong as it is not what sex is meant for according to what is written.


Quote:
I'll assume that by "the church" you mean catholocism, since there are MANY christian denominations, and they all have their own hierarchies within them. some are united, some aren't but catholicism is the most organized. anyway- it was "obey the church or go to hell" back in the days when the common person could not read. they relied on the church to dictate the holy word to them. That's when Dante wrote his famous divine comedy, and the whole 7 circles of hell stuff was invented. the Church LITERALLY took a work of fiction and tought it as canon. then it became common for regular people to read, so the church had to kind of gloss-over and fluff up their doctrine since they could no longer blatantly lie to the poor folks. now it's kind of stuck in a realm of vague, mostly irrelevant, outdated rules.
I'm using the term church very losely, I was not specifying any in particular, besides if I'm not mistaken it was the catholic church who ruled medieval times and that around the renaissance, around the 15th century, new churches started popping up as a reaction to the activities of the Catholic church as well as the developing interest in ancient teachings.

Anyway, back to the point. Yeah that is pretty much what I mean with that hell as it is described was just invented as a way of scaring people into doing 'what's right'.
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Last Edited by Iroas; 08-31-2008 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-31-2008, 07:28 PM
hypno_toad hypno_toad is a male hypno_toad is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

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Originally Posted by Dark Link View Post
You ever heard of convicted offenses against double murder that is applied to pregnant women? I sure do.
The difference is that he mother legally had control over the fetus' life, not the person who murdered her. She chose to exercise that control to have the child, or she would've if she hadn't been killed.
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  #30 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-31-2008, 07:55 PM
Pie_Dictator Canada Pie_Dictator is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

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Originally Posted by Margar View Post
but what if your husband is away on a business trip and you really miss him? is it a sin for a wife to be horny and masturbate to thoughts of her husband?
This is where things get tricky, Jesus said that if you think of somebody (sexually) and you have not married them then you are committing adultery. Unless you think of him and only him then it isn't a sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iroas View Post
Yes and this is my point:
I am of the opinion that when the christian belief was gaining popularity, people saw a potential business of some sort. That is what I meant by people (ab)using religion by bending it to their own liking.
During the middle ages, Christianity, the way I see it, was basicly used to brainwash uneducated people, who didn't know any better, so they could be controlled/dominated.
Exactly, I totally agree 100%
Last Edited by Pie_Dictator; 08-31-2008 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:37 PM
Xeno Xeno is a male Xeno is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

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Originally Posted by Chencheya View Post
If I remember rightly, there was only a handful of incidences where the 'double-murder' actually came into effect. I think one particular case was when a mother-to-be was killed, and the foetus inside her was already several months along and even had its own name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypno_toad
The difference is that he mother legally had control over the fetus' life, not the person who murdered her. She chose to exercise that control to have the child, or she would've if she hadn't been killed.
Well, that was entirely aside from my main point.
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Old 09-01-2008, 03:58 AM
WhisperInTime United_States WhisperInTime is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

well i just want to add that I do not think sex, masturbation, oral, anal would be considered a sin except in the fact where you sell it. I think it's personally wrong to go around sleeping with person to person just for the hell of it. Or prostitution. That's just my opinion although prostitution depends on the predicament of the person. was she forced or not?
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:09 AM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

Who exactly do you think wrote the bible?

Men. It is 100% derived from the imagination of men. Men in power.
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:10 AM
Lord Zero Lord Zero is a male Wales Lord Zero is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

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Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
Who exactly do you think wrote the bible?

Men. It is 100% derived from the imagination of men. Men in power.
Well apart from the Celts and certain other cultures it was never women in power. So yeah.
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:52 AM
fratey Sweden fratey is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

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Originally Posted by Dark Link View Post
Sperm cannot become human life in itself. That is the difference. Hell, sperm comes and goes whether you masturbate or not.
However, a fetus cannot become human in itself without proper support either.
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  #36 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-01-2008, 07:56 AM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

Hope I never see any of those people trying to contend that consciousness = a soul.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:10 AM
Mattocks Canada Mattocks is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

There are some interesting beliefs in Omish (or one of the similar religions, I don't know exactly whixh one) cultures. For example, while my dad was away on business in Saskachewan, he was asked to basicaly be a stud for an Omish community because he "favourable traits". However, the rules were that he had to be watched by the elders to insure that he did it only for the purpose of procreation, and not for pleasure. This meant good ol' fasioned missonary-no female orgasm-god loving sex. But it is particularily interesting to note that to them it did not matter that it was out of wedlock, or that he was already married.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:14 AM
Lord Zero Lord Zero is a male Wales Lord Zero is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattocks View Post
There are some interesting beliefs in Omish (or one of the similar religions, I don't know exactly whixh one) cultures. For example, while my dad was away on business in Saskachewan, he was asked to basicaly be a stud for an Omish community because he "favourable traits". However, the rules were that he had to be watched by the elders to insure that he did it only for the purpose of procreation, and not for pleasure. This meant good ol' fasioned missonary-no female orgasm-god loving sex. But it is particularily interesting to note that to them it did not matter that it was out of wedlock, or that he was already married.
I would just like to say, this is semi-awesome. Semi because you'd be forced to procreate with the ugly ones, too.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:48 AM
Mattocks Canada Mattocks is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

^I agree. But I just found it odd because even though they are strict on the procreation thing, they aren't to concerned in regards to mariage. Also, I think I miss spelled Omish. Isn't it suposed to be Amish?
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:19 AM
Lord Zero Lord Zero is a male Wales Lord Zero is offline
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Re: Intimacy Within Marriage

It's an A, I know that much.
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