Bush: Great President, or Greatest President?

So many people in the world today hate George W. Bush. There is alot of reason to. Personaly, I disagree with most things he's done while in office. However, I am so tired of people who hate Bush simply because everyone else does. When asked why, they say because he went to war. There is so much more to it then just that, why hate a person just because they went to war? It's in how he went about it, and why. It's about actions he's taken, rights he's restricted. Now, in all fairness, I'm Canadian. Honestly, I get most of my American news from The Daily Show, and The Colbert Report. I know that they are not realy a valid source, so I try to pay attention to what is covered on our news, and read articles on the internet (I tried to watch CNN one time, and it was just too boring!). But at least I am getting an idea of the situation, and not just jumping on the Bush hating bandwagon like so many people I know are.
And there is another hand for this too, the good Bush has done. Even I must say that he has some aspect to be applauded. The fact that he managed to get reelected shows his skills as a politician (no, I don't believ he rigged the election, yes I have seen farenhiet 9/11). In my english classroom there was a poster hanging up which briefly talked about how his papers and work in school show that he is more inteligent then what it seems. Yes the war is arguable unjust, but he managed to take Sadam out of power and even though it's still not a great place, some aspects of Iraq are better. But despite all this there are still also people on this side who say "YEA!!!! WOOOO! WAR!!! He's great!!". That is just as bad as the other side. So if you like Bush or hate him, with a reason for it, I respect your opinions either way, but talk about why. Mayby some of the uneducated people on the subject can pick up an actual reason as well.

Ministry basically summed up everything I have to say about George W. Bush.

"What makes you think that you've a God-given right,
For killing people in a needless fight,
You're like a rapist with a target in sight: DEMOCRACY."

Well the only reason he got elected in '04 is because Kerry was a TERRIBLE candidate. He was one of the weakest presidential candidates I've ever seen. The fact that the democrats couldn't find someone to beat Bush is like finding a normal person who can't win the special Olympics. I believe that the '00 election was rigged, but as for '04, Kerry was just a really horrible candidate. And yet, being as horrible as he was, he still managed to get like 49% of the vote, which should tell you something about Bush.

And as far as Iraq goes. We had no right to invade. The war was based on fabricated evidence (poorly fabricated at that). And they are not better off than they were before we got there.

If I may be permitted to use a somewhat childish analogy: It like this guy has a computer (Iraq). The computer doesn't work very well and it only boots up about half the time. So then we come along (invade Iraq) and we're like "hey, we'll fix your computer." Except we don't know anything about computers. So we sit there for a little while then start banging on the computer with a hammer then smash it on the ground. Then when the guy is like "WTF why'd you destroy my computer?" we're like "Well it's your computer, you fix it."

Yes, I know this is an simplification, but it gets the general idea across.

Originally Posted by hypno_toad

Well the only reason he got elected in '04 is because Kerry was a TERRIBLE candidate. He was one of the weakest presidential candidates I've ever seen. The fact that the democrats couldn't find someone to beat Bush is like finding a normal person who can't win the special Olympics. I believe that the '00 election was rigged, but as for '04, Kerry was just a really horrible candidate. And yet, being as horrible as he was, he still managed to get like 49% of the vote, which should tell you something about Bush.

And as far as Iraq goes. We had no right to invade. The war was based on fabricated evidence (poorly fabricated at that). And they are not better off than they were before we got there.

If I may be permitted to use a somewhat childish analogy: It like this guy has a computer (Iraq). The computer doesn't work very well and it only boots up about half the time. So then we come along (invade Iraq) and we're like "hey, we'll fix your computer." Except we don't know anything about computers. So we sit there for a little while then start banging on the computer with a hammer then smash it on the ground. Then when the guy is like "WTF why'd you destroy my computer?" we're like "Well it's your computer, you fix it."

Yes, I know this is an simplification, but it gets the general idea across.

Careful on the special Olympics thing, there are alot of excellent athletes competing there. Anyways, I think the best analogy I've seen, is the iRack.
YouTube - Madtv - Apple I-rack
"Stop focusing on the iRack, and start focusing on our new product...the iRan!"

The only issue I have with Bush-bashers is when they imply that he's the worst president ever. I dislike it not so much because I think they're exaggerating Bush's faults, but because they're grossly exaggerating every other president's virtues. Take Woodrow Wilson, for example, an oft-venerated president.

Bush invaded Iraq? Despite Woodrow Wilson's talk about self-determination, he openly sent troops to other countries to force elections and treaties favorable to the US.

The Patriot Act? Try the Espionage Act and Sedition Act; they pretty much blatantly took away First Amendment rights, and war protesters were imprisoned by the hundreds.

I mean, if we want to talk about oppressive acts, military blunders, or simple lack of diplomacy/intelligence, Bush certainly isn't the worst.

Originally Posted by Igna

The only issue I have with Bush-bashers is when they imply that he's the worst president ever. I dislike it not so much because I think they're exaggerating Bush's faults, but because they're grossly exaggerating every other president's virtues. Take Woodrow Wilson, for example, an oft-venerated president.

Bush invaded Iraq? Despite Woodrow Wilson's talk about self-determination, he openly sent troops to other countries to force elections and treaties favorable to the US.

The Patriot Act? Try the Espionage Act and Sedition Act; they pretty much blatantly took away First Amendment rights, and war protesters were imprisoned by the hundreds.

I mean, if we want to talk about oppressive acts, military blunders, or simple lack of diplomacy/intelligence, Bush certainly isn't the worst.

Well my knowledge on US history and presidents is rather limited, from what I can tell, Nixon seemed alot worse then Bush. But then again, that may just be humourous media steryotyping.

I think Bush is a pretty cool guy. eh the uh internets and doesn't afraid of anything.

Also, the fact that George Bush is an outside joke = he's amazing in one way or another, good or bad.

Well ... let's just say that I'm going to be partying so hard on January 20th, 2009, I'll probably be going to class and work very hung over, or even still drunk.

I haven't enjoyed having a president who has worked to make abortion less accessible, made it public that he doesn't want my friends to be able to marry their partners, supported abstinence-only sex education even though it's been shown to be less effective than comprehensive sex education, given no help to public school systems, invaded other countries without any real reason (WMDs? Really?), and done nothing to help the average American in any way.

Our health care system is a wreck. Gas prices are ****ing ridiculous. Climate change isn't being addressed. Christianity is being pushed down everyone's throats. People are still living on the streets. And all we've done is launch a war on an abstract idea.

Thanks for absolutely nothing, Dubya. Oh, how I wish Gore's victory in 2000 had been recognized

Originally Posted by Sapphira

Well ... let's just say that I'm going to be partying so hard on January 20th, 2009, I'll probably be going to class and work very hung over, or even still drunk.

I haven't enjoyed having a president who has worked to make abortion less accessible, made it public that he doesn't want my friends to be able to marry their partners, supported abstinence-only sex education even though it's been shown to be less effective than comprehensive sex education, given no help to public school systems, invaded other countries without any real reason (WMDs? Really?), and done nothing to help the average American in any way.

Our health care system is a wreck. Gas prices are ****ing ridiculous. Climate change isn't being addressed. Christianity is being pushed down everyone's throats. People are still living on the streets. And all we've done is launch a war on an abstract idea.

Thanks for absolutely nothing, Dubya. Oh, how I wish Gore's victory in 2000 had been recognized

Oh if only everyone who Bush-bashes could come up with an argument like that, wouldn't it be a great world? Very valid points. The impression I got was that he originaly intended to do something for school systems, but had to forget about it because of the war.

Originally Posted by Mattocks

Oh if only everyone who Bush-bashes could come up with an argument like that, wouldn't it be a great world? Very valid points. The impression I got was that he originaly intended to do something for school systems, but had to forget about it because of the war.

Well, the thing is that many people bash without thinking about it first, or without really understanding what's going on. I try to think about how Bush's presidency has affected me personally. I also reject the notion that he's stupid because 1) he didn't do as poorly at Yale as people think (even if he was really only there because of his daddy), and 2) he didn't do that badly on the SATs (a 1200 used to be a VERY respectable score, even for a valedictorian, and 1600s were incredibly rare). He is certainly a poor public speaker, but again, I care more about his policies.

A lot of things have been ignored in favor of the war. It's incredibly sad when so much effort and so much money (tax-payers' money, so we're all paying for it) goes towards sending soldiers to another country under false pretenses to impress our beliefs and government system onto another country. I want my tax dollars to be put to some use for American citizens. It's not as if we live in a utopia.

For the record, I don't consider myself anti-America. I am American, and I love living here in Boston. But when I say we don't live in a utopia, I mean that there is still work to be done here. I still pass homeless people as I drive back to school after work. Speaking of driving, I'm paying $53 to fill up the tank of my sedan. People are struggling to find jobs, and the dollar has fallen so hard that we don't need to have separate prices for Canadian dollars on the backs of books.

And healthcare ... Ugh, I have an appointment today. I can't see my regular gynecologist because she's booked up through September. What happened to medicine?

Originally Posted by Mattocks

Well my knowledge on US history and presidents is rather limited, from what I can tell, Nixon seemed alot worse then Bush. But then again, that may just be humourous media steryotyping.

Nixon could have been a very good president if it weren't for Watergate. He basically opened up China to the world after thousands of years of isolation.

As for Bush, well it's not like anyone is going to change their views by mine. I like the guy, actually.

Bush is an okay guy. Just a bit unlucky.

Could you guys exand on why you like him please, just to get some more postive points out there.

While bush may not have been the best president, he id definantly not the worst. There have been presidents (ie Nixon, Hoover, Clinton) that have done worse things than start a war over a minor issue. In my opinion, there has only been three things he has done wrong: 1. the unnecesary and uneffective patriot act (I highly doubt that spying on americans is gonna help agianst middle easter terrorists), and 2. continueing the 20 year tradition of putting our economy in chinas hands and 3. continuing the 50 year tradition of not dealing with Cuba and North Korea.

Originally Posted by ShiekahSage

While bush may not have been the best president, he id definantly not the worst. There have been presidents (ie Nixon, Hoover, Clinton) that have done worse things than start a war over a minor issue. In my opinion, there has only been three things he has done wrong: 1. the unnecesary and uneffective patriot act (I highly doubt that spying on americans is gonna help agianst middle easter terrorists), and 2. continueing the 20 year tradition of putting our economy in chinas hands and 3. continuing the 50 year tradition of not dealing with Cuba and North Korea.

What, prey tell, did Clinton so that was as bad as anything Bush has done in office. Clinton was one of the best presidents in recent history. He didn't accrue any national debt, and in fact, built a surplus.

Oh, and presidential blowjobs never started a war.

Originally Posted by hypno_toad

Oh, and presidential blowjobs never started a war.

Never killed anybody either. Hell, it didn't even ruin his marriage, look at them today.

Originally Posted by Sage of Earth

Never killed anybody either. Hell, it didn't even ruin his marriage, look at them today.

That's true, I find it very impressive. Then again, makes you wonder what Hilary was doing to get even.

Originally Posted by Mattocks

That's true, I find it very impressive. Then again, makes you wonder what Hilary was doing to get even.

Well, I don't like to kiss and tell, and she told me she'd have me assassinated if I did. So yeah.

Originally Posted by Sage of Earth

Well, I don't like to kiss and tell, and she told me she'd have me assassinated if I did. So yeah.

HAHAHA!! That just made my day.

While I certainly dislike Bush immensely, I'm also not Naiive enough to blame everything on him.
He let too many other people do the thinking. Dick Cheney has WAY too much power for a vice president. Bush allowed washington to become so one-sided, especially in the justice department. It's just sick to look at all the different policies and projects that were mishandled under his "leadership".

I can't even begin to list them all cuz I don't have time and thinking about it makes me depressed!

as for the patriot act- ZERO convictions out of I think maybe a few thousand cases have been made under the patriot act.
and allowing warrentless wire-tapping is like looking for a needle in a haystack and adding more hay.
Any calls going through regarding terrorism are obviously not like
"Hey, osama, we still gonna go through with that plot to bomb the trade center?"
no. conversations like that are conducted in cryptic ways, usually in the language of business.
So by taking in a HIGHER volume of calls, we aren't actually strengthening our intelligence, we're just adding to the pile of crap to monitor, when we should be focusing on the QUALITY of inteligence gathering.

quality>quantity. seems pretty simple to me