U.S. Presidential election 2008

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

YouTube - Barack Obama Pastor Jeremiah Wright is anti American Racist

Yes I do.

Haha, that aids comment wasn't racist or anti-American, it was just stupid. Other than the aids comment, his comments aren't that bad, I kinda agree with him on some points.

Wrights speeches are nothing more than harsh criticisms, are we no longer allowed to question and criticize our government?

One thing? Thats all? Give me more.

What I meant by policy change was all the changes he will be bringing, health care, economy changes, education changes etc.

Good plan, but there is almost no way he can pay for this. Thats one little (huge) detail he left out, there should've been a little section, how I will pay for all of this. He didn have one. If he did I would be convinced but no...

Taxes:

The Obama plan will realize tremendous savings within the health care system to help
finance the plan. The additional revenue needed to fund the up-front investments in
technology and to help people who cannot afford health insurance is more than covered
by allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for people making more than $250,000 per year,
as they are scheduled to do.

The Iraqi military can't suatin itself. until it can fight for itself we need to be there to help them.

He will leave small forces in Iraq to help the Iraqis:

Residual Force to Remain: Under the Obama plan, American troops may remain in Iraq or the region. These American troops will protect American diplomatic and military personnel in Iraq, and continue striking at alQaeda in Iraq. If Iraq makes political progress and their security forces are not sectarian, we would also continue training the Iraqi Security Forces. In the event of an outbreak of genocide, we would reserve the right to intervene, with the international community, if that intervention was needed to provide civilians with a safehaven.

Still, why associate with him for any reason, he is nice, freindly similar beliefes etc....there are many more non terrorists that have the same qualities why not them?

I don't see why not, he no longer does acts of terrorism. According to wikipedia, he "is a Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago who has worked on school reform in Chicago."

Two years, state counts for about...nothing.

He passed Bills, oooh every senator has passed Bills. He got elected senator, ooh not like thousands of people have been elected senator. Everyone get's approved by someone. That's not impressive at all.

Haha, if you put it that way, Hillary has even less experience than Obama:

In the Senate, she has largely spent her time raising funds for herself and other Democrats (in hopes of attracting the votes of super delegates) and promoting her best selling memoir Living History. In part because of a lack of attention and also because of the Democrats’ minority status during much of her Senate tenure, she has passed very, very little of note.

Her legislative accomplishments in her first term in the Senate were almost entirely symbolic. She renamed a courthouse after Justice Thurgood Marshall. She passed a resolution honoring Alexander Hamilton and another celebrating the win of a Syracuse University lacrosse team. She renamed post offices, founded a national park in Puerto Rico and expressed the sense of the Senate that Harriet Tubman should have gotten a federal pension 150 years ago.

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

If there were other pastors out there who were not racist wouldn't you switch to them?

Obama has already explained that Wright is like a father figure to him.

Stupid, tough or not he needs to answer these with out trying to pussiefoot out or whining like a little baby.

He is not "pussyfooting" around. He was complaining because, during the ABC debate it took around 45 minutes to get to discussing policy issues, instead of stupid issues like "do you love the American flag". Seriously, what does that have to do with being president?

Wrong. He said they are bitter and cling to their guns and religions when in reality the cling to them for comfort and support not out of bitterness.

Well yeah. The people are bitter because of whats going on in the government, so they seek comfort. Hence "clinging to religion and guns". Though, I would have used a different word than cling.

Edit:

Interesting video of a pastor from another church defending Wright.

YouTube - fox news owned

tell me how they are so much more similar?
How are you basing that?
How has his voting record shown that?
How have his speeches shown that?

he's voted for about the same amount of funding for iraq as clinton and obama if that's what you're getting at. Actions speak louder than words there lest you forget the last election("I was against the war before I voted to go to war") And when the actions have spoken the democrats who promised change in the last congressional election changed... NOTHING... just as corrupt as the crazed borrow-and-spend neo-cons they overtook. Obama and Clinton's voting record isn't that much apart form the rest of the democrats either FYI apart from being a bit more conservative

ehh my candidates(Paul) is out of it anyway, unless McCain gets assassinated...
do me a favor since you hate McCain so much...

I don't see the point in bringing up the 2004 election, or the current Congress. And you might have seen my post that mentioned how I thought McCain was the "least fake" candidate.

I don't really appreciate your assumptions or your passive-aggressive attitude.

Anyway, taken from their respective websites...

John McCain agrees with retired Army General Jack Keane that there are simply not enough American forces in Iraq.

Hillary Clinton has announced her plan to end the war in Iraq and urged President Bush to act immediately.

Considering how generally unpopular the former stance is, what Lord of shadow said was true.

Originally Posted by Igna

I don't see the point in bringing up the 2004 election, or the current Congress. And you might have seen my post that mentioned how I thought McCain was the "least fake" candidate.

I don't really appreciate your assumptions or your passive-aggressive attitude.

Anyway, taken from their respective websites...





Considering how generally unpopular the former stance is, what Lord of shadow said was true.

presenting a plan to do what many americans say they want AFTER you've voted to implement the very thing you're tearing down...
seems hypocritical and nothing more than a job for power.

Originally Posted by KeeperOfCourage

I hope McCain wins, seems like the best choice. Clinton is against guns and supports abortion, homosexuality and all that junk I'm pretty sure. Obama isnt good either.

Wow, you're going to base your voting on gun laws, abortion, and homosexuality.
Maybe you haven't noticed like I have....but those things all seem very petty to me. In fact, they are petty and shouldn't even be an issue.

We need to stop focusing on gay marriages and the all the bullcrap from the Bible, and start focusing on reality.
Our nation is not on a good road right now. That is the truth.
We are in a massive debt. I don't give a crap about some gay guy getting married down the street.

Originally Posted by Eternal Paradox

Ha ha, that aids comment wasn't racist or anti-American, it was just stupid. Other than the aids comment, his comments aren't that bad, I kinda agree with him on some points.

Wow, my gag reflex kicked in almost instantly. What points would those be?

Wrights speeches are nothing more than harsh criticisms, are we no longer allowed to question and criticize our government?

Sure you can question, but that's not questioning. That is a hate speech, not a "harsh criticism" I could start blasting any race or ethnicity and claim it as "harsh criticism" but that's a lie. It would be hate.

What I meant by policy change was all the changes he will be bringing, health care, economy changes, education changes etc.

Alright, well why don't you post some of those and compare them to McCain's standings.

I don't see why not, he no longer does acts of terrorism. According to wikipedia, he "is a Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago who has worked on school reform in Chicago."

"Well, he doesn't murder people any more soo..." Bull****.

Ha ha, if you put it that way, Hillary has even less experience than Obama:

They both have nothing.

Obama has already explained that Wright is like a father figure to him.

Bad choice Barack.

He is not "pussyfooting" around. He was complaining because, during the ABC debate it took around 45 minutes to get to discussing policy issues, instead of stupid issues like "do you love the American flag". Seriously, what does that have to do with being president?

That isn't a stupid issue if the man can't answer something as simple as that then that is pathetic. Whoopteedoo what he is asking answer the damn question. I just hear babies whining and women *****ing when he talks about it.

Well yeah. The people are bitter because of whats going on in the government, so they seek comfort. Hence "clinging to religion and guns". Though, I would have used a different word than cling.

How does he know this? He doesn't.

Interesting video of a pastor from another church defending Wright.

YouTube - fox news owned

Oh yeah, he was in the military that changes everything, what a lie. gangsters, lee Harvey. They were in the military too weren't they, that makes them good people right? That excuses them? Nope.

Is your father perfect, Flames of Valor?

You apparently didn't see my earlier post, too.

If you're not prepared to treat John McCain with the same scrutiny you have Barack Obama in regards to a racist pastor/priest/what-have-you, then drop the subject; unless you're saying it's more acceptable to have a potentially racist White President than it is to have a potentially racist half-Black President.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

Is your father perfect, Flames of Valor?

You apparently didn't see my earlier post, too.

If you're not prepared to treat John McCain with the same scrutiny you have Barack Obama in regards to a racist pastor/priest/what-have-you, then drop the subject; unless you're saying it's more acceptable to have a potentially racist White President than it is to have a potentially racist half-Black President.

No, my father is not perfect, but he is family, thus, I can't just drop him. However, if you go to a church one day, and find yourself in front of a racist pastor and other racists, why do you not leave? Because you embrace it.

I am plenty willing to scrutinize McCain, but right now I am focusing on Obama, if you want to discuss John McCain, lets do it.

Originally Posted by nighthawkx

presenting a plan to do what many americans say they want AFTER you've voted to implement the very thing you're tearing down...
seems hypocritical and nothing more than a job for power.

Interesting, yet once again irrelevant to my post.

McCain is just as "guilty" of having loose connections to controversial figures as Obama is.

Back in 2000, McCain called Jerry Falwell an "agent of intolerance," and said he wouldn't pander to his supporters in the Christian Right just for votes. I respected him for that, because it was true. But then he lost the nomination, and a couple years ago, did a complete 180.



McCain apologized, and spoke at his university.

Some gems from Falwell's bigoted mouth:

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.

If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being.

After the September 11 attacks Falwell said, “I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen."

More recently, McCain has "gladly" and "proudly" accepted the endorsement of John Hagee, who is just as bigoted is Jerry Falwell.



Other than calling the Catholic church the "Great Whore" and a "false cult system," he's said plenty of other very nice things:

I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.

Islam in general — those who live by the Koran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews.

Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist.

As a nation, America is under the curse of God.

But this wasn't just Hagee endorsing McCain and McCain accepting it, he sought the endorsement out: "It's true that [John] McCain's campaign sought my endorsement."

And finally, let us not forget G. Gordon Liddy. Not only does McCain consider Liddy a "good, personal friend," but he has accepted donations from him as far back as 1998. Who is Liddy, exactly? Let me just list off a few of the things he's known for:

*Served in Nixon's administration, and the Committee to Re-elect the President. Here he concocted plans to discredit the Democratic party by: firebombing the Brookings Institution, kidnapping anti-Vietnam War protesters and dropping them off in Mexico, and luring Democratic officials to a house-boat to hopefully catch them in "compromising positions" with call girls.

*Plotted the murder of investigative journalist Jack Anderson.

*Was one of the head coordinators of Watergate, for which he was charged with conspiracy, burglary and illegal wiretapping; he served five and a half years in prison for this, and 100 days in solitary.

*Said: "Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests." ... " Kill the sons of *****es."

So if Obama's reliability can be tainted by some people he knows, why not McCain?

The only reason people are in an uproar about Obama's priest and not McCain is due to the media lambasting Obama, as they see a half-black president and choose to try and destroy his reputation somehow.

And people say the media is liberal . . .

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

That isn't a stupid issue if the man can't answer something as simple as that then that is pathetic. Whoopteedoo what he is asking answer the damn question. I just hear babies whining and women *****ing when he talks about it. .

About what? How stupid people are to assume that respecting the flag earns you patriotic points?

Originally Posted by Nox

About what? How stupid people are to assume that respecting the flag earns you patriotic points?

It does. A man needs to be able to sincerely express why he loves his country and it's flag.

No.


A flag is a symbol for the country. You should not have to respect it separately from the country.

I mean, do you have to be able to sincerely express why you like baseball and also the MLB logo?

I care about my country. I don't give a flying rat's ass about my flag. I would gladly burn a flag if given the proper incentive. Like a payment of five dollars.

Does that mean I'm anti-American? I live here, so obviously I want the country to enjoy all the success it can get. I have friends and family in the military, and have enormous respect for some of the things that the country and it's people have accomplished.

But I would burn a flag for five dollars, because it is a meaningless piece of cloth that only has significance because people assign it significance. A significance that I do not acknowledge.

And before anyone rebuts what Lord of shadow just said, I would also like these questions answered...

Is it that he burns the flag that makes it bad? Or is it the fact that he thinks of the flag so casually?

If the former and not the latter, why? If the latter and not the former, why?

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

No, my father is not perfect, but he is family, thus, I can't just drop him. However, if you go to a church one day, and find yourself in front of a racist pastor and other racists, why do you not leave? Because you embrace it.

I am plenty willing to scrutinize McCain, but right now I am focusing on Obama, if you want to discuss John McCain, lets do it.

You're assuming that he (Rev. Wright) is a racist. yes, he has said things that can be construed as racist. he's said harsh things that easily could have been put in less abraisive terms. But he points out the racial inequality that still pervades our society today, 40 years after the civil rights movement. Wouldn't you be a little bitter if your country still beureaucratically stacked the deck against you, even 4 decades after your people fought and in some cases, died for, their equal rights?

It's not that he's a racist who hates white people and thinks black are superior- it's that he's angry with america's failure to practice what it preaches.

I say more power to him.

Originally Posted by Margar

You're assuming that he (Rev. Wright) is a racist. yes, he has said things that can be construed as racist. he's said harsh things that easily could have been put in less abraisive terms. But he points out the racial inequality that still pervades our society today, 40 years after the civil rights movement. Wouldn't you be a little bitter if your country still beureaucratically stacked the deck against you, even 4 decades after your people fought and in some cases, died for, their equal rights?

It's not that he's a racist who hates white people and thinks black are superior- it's that he's angry with america's failure to practice what it preaches.

I say more power to him.

No he is angry with specific people who fail to do it, I can find at least one person who opposes something and ***** about them, it isn't country as a whole just who he decides to rant about. He is still and idiot.

So consorting with idiots is now grounds for throwing doubt on someone's credibility as a politician? THAT'll throw a wrench in things.

Hate McCain's health insurance plan. "Lets let the families decide" Yes, and lets keep millions of Americans to say, "no" . Not even insurance for kids. What a fool, its not about the government going evil and taking over the choice of Americans, its about giving health insurance to all. The countries in Europe and Canada seem to be doing well. Lets just stop cutting the taxes on big corporations that have a stranglehold on the economy. Or maybe make a little cut on military budget. I don't think we need to spend so much, we're not getting attacked head on.

I support Obama's plan because he has laid it down completely. Health insurance that will be available through the government, making sure it covers kids. The family also STILL has the choice if they want a private insurance. McCain's is horrible.
I don't like Hillary criticizing Obama leaving some uninsured. Because she hasn't even fully laid out her plan. There will be a penalty for not getting insured, but we don't even know what the penalty is.
And finally, Obama nails McCain on gas prices.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

Flames of Valor, unless you're willing to put John McCain under the same scrutiny in regards to a racist pastor of his that you're using in regards to Barack Obama, you should really drop the subject already.

Well, if he goes onto other things about McCain's plans, I fear the worse...

I'm happy to see the poll results too. I'd puke if McCain becomes president.

Originally Posted by Flames of Valor

He is still and idiot.

rofl

Try watching Wright's speech in context. You might learn something.

Originally Posted by Citizen Snips

Hate McCain's health insurance plan. "Lets let the families decide" Yes, and lets keep millions of Americans to say, "no" . Not even insurance for kids. What a fool, its not about the government going evil and taking over the choice of Americans, its about giving health insurance to all. The countries in Europe and Canada seem to be doing well. Lets just stop cutting the taxes on big corporations that have a stranglehold on the economy. Or maybe make a little cut on military budget. I don't think we need to spend so much, we're not getting attacked head on.

I support Obama's plan because he has laid it down completely. Health insurance that will be available through the government, making sure it covers kids. The family also STILL has the choice if they want a private insurance. McCain's is horrible.
I don't like Hillary criticizing Obama leaving some uninsured. Because she hasn't even fully laid out her plan. There will be a penalty for not getting insured, but we don't even know what the penalty is.
And finally, Obama nails McCain on gas prices.


Well, if he goes onto other things about McCain's plans, I fear the worse...

I'm happy to see the poll results too. I'd puke if McCain becomes president.

WRONG. Health insurance should be by choice, if a rich man doesn't want health insurance he shouldn't have to waste his money on it, simple as that, there should be as little "requirements" as possible. McCain is right about choosing and Obama is good for helping everyone have it but the PEOPLE need to choose.

Whats your point? His pastor is right about how they were treated unfairly, but wrong about God Damn America. Go to another country and preach they WILL kill you. Now he blames whites today for something they weren't involved with? Gay. HE also cannot answer why he is segregating black in his church. By addressing everything as "black" instead of approaching is as united with all races.