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  #101 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-29-2008, 05:40 PM
Virtigo Virtigo is offline
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Re: Fitna the Movie -an Anti Quran Film- released!

Originally Posted by Daemonius View Post
Where the comparison of Dutch muslims and German jews around WWII fails is that the Jews didn't cause any violence, whereas our muslims do. The fact that they continue to do it (the youths in particular), continues to make the thought "You idiots! Stop confirming the stereotypes!" float around my head. I do not wish to make a group look bad for no apparent reason, but they continue to give me reasons...
Two things. First, Hitler blamed everyone, including Jews and other foreigners - foreigners who were in fact committing many crimes themselves. Yet, Hitler's message is a reactionary one that simply forgets whatever wrongs or faults the German people have done and resolves that erasing the outside presence will make it all better.

Second, I have nothing to say about you not liking Muslim extremists. I don't either. But your reasoning why, why you think they are bad and what causes this are completely wrong.

The idea that, "Muslim youths are committing many crimes," is fine, but the continuing thought that, "it's because of the Quran" is not, and has no real proof or respectable argument involved.

Also, our government has always supported them, perhaps too much: some years ago, they even got child support for their children in their country of origin. Before, they were never outcasted: most of them never wanted to mingle with us anyway, unless they must. They were granted Mosques and what not by our government, which really (<_<)supports integration because they pretty much try to recreate their former countries, something that musn't be done IMO. Hell, even now our naive Prime Minister continues to defend the muslims.
This is not integration. This is segregation. Polite segregation.

Exactly the incorrect attitude I've been haranguing you about. The idea that 'most of them never wanted to mingle with us anyway' is faulty because the government never game them the incentive to do so, and the Dutch never make an attempt themselves.

And thus, VIrtigo, the Dutch have integrated as much as they should: they are happy to welcome anyone who treats them the same as do treat them, we even have a Mosque in every average or bigger city. Still, they continue to behave the same.
Building a few buildings is not how you integrate a community. You keep perpetuating the very idea that's wrong with European methods of integration.

And you are paying for it right now. Yet, I find no fault with people who recognize their error and set out to fix it. I have no patience for those who dismiss the issue altogether by saying, "it's all the Muslims' fault anyway." It's cowardly and too easy.

Apathy is fine, it's a silent form of rough tolerance that works well enough, but the correct attitude is completely missing. Thus, in a period of 30 years, your Muslims have gone from being 'Dutch Muslims' to 'Muslims freeloading in the Netherlands.'

There pretty much were no "Dutch supremacists" until the danger of radical muslims became very clear.
Because lawyers don't pop up until an accident happens. The homogeneous ethnic background of the petty states of Europe are no where near as able to support large population shifts as, say America.
  #102 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-29-2008, 05:54 PM
Leonri Leonri is a male Ireland Leonri is offline
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Re: Fitna the Movie -an Anti Quran Film- released!

Why stop with Islam? Why dosen't the movie speak about the dangers of Christianity, Judaism , Hinduism and Scientology?

Seriously, Islam does have (major) flaws but so does most religions. They are all fundamentally flawed. And Islam is not that bad in the mainstream and most Muslims spend a lot of time making up for the crimes of a select few fanatics' crimes.

You perhaps know someone whose father died in the Twin Towers but maybe I know a guy with his limbs blown off in Baghdad as a result of "collateral damage"
Both of these acts are evil but would you insist one is morally justified?
  #103 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-29-2008, 10:13 PM
Kaiser "Rodney Dangerfield" Soze Kaiser "Rodney Dangerfield" Soze is offline
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Re: Fitna the Movie -an Anti Quran Film- released!

I find it amusing that no one here has noticed that everyone here is conflating Arab immigration to the Netherlands with Islamic immigration. It seems everyone agrees on some fundamentally Arab supremacist overtones to the work of Islam.
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