The Greatest Story Ever Told

Yes. Another religion thread. But hopefully one with a fresh perspective. At least I have not seen any threads discussing religion from this angle, so let's give her a whirl.

The premise for this theory is simple; the world's great religions are based on an even older tale. The story of the Zodiac. The greatest story ever told.

I could not believe I had not come across this theory until recently. Personally, I find it not only satisfying, but truly fascinating.

Before I divulge any details, I would like to point out that it is possible to be a proponent of this theory and still believe in a higher power. Indeed, the ancients, more sophisticated than we give them credit for, felt that God communicated to us through the sky. Their myths have allegorical rather than literal significance. It was later on that these myths were hijacked and presented as literal, historical truths.

Also, I am by NO means an expert on astrological theology. I plan on studying it independently for deeper understanding, but I am currently a newbie.
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-One thing pertaining to religion that those who care to look will find is that there are many so called gods with strikingly similar characteristics.

-Among these are Horus (an ancient egyptian god who may have been the original blueprint for these prophets), Buddha, Krishna, Mithra, and Jesus. There are others too, but the similarities of the above should immediately lead us to question whether these were real figures. If they were real figures, were they divine figures?

-The similarities among these deities include a December 25th birth date, baptism, disciples or followers, virgin birth, death on a cross, and resurrection. These motifs are repeated again and again in many religions, most of which claim that their's is the one true prophet.

-If we accept that the evidence of these parallels is in fact valid, an inquisitive individual will next wonder why these traits arise again and again. Indeed, it should lead a thinking, rational believer to wonder why this should be. Were all of the other gods simply false prophets created by the devil to turn you away from the truth, or might there be a more logical explanation?

-For those who dare to venture further, the next step, then, is to find what this common denominator between these gods is. It is my current belief that the notion of "astrological theology" offers the only satisfying explanation.
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The ancients recognized that the sun was a source of heat, warmth, and life. It caused the crops to grow and gave light to the world. Hence, it became an adored object.

The ancients, avid star gazers that did not possess modern technology and scientific understanding, often created myths to explain natural phenomenon.

Their story of the sun of god persists to this day.

Consider some of Jesus's (I focus on Christianity only because it is most relevant for us) characteristics:

-"He will come again" (as the sun does every morning)
-He boasts a "crown of thorns" (sun rays)
-He can "walk on water" (as a sun's reflection does)
-Restore sight to the blind (i.e. brining light to the world)
-He travels around with his 12 disciples (i.e. the 12 zodiac signs)

The death, 3 day burial, and resurrection sequence is easily understood with a basic knowledge of the winter solstice.

In the northern hemisphere, the days become shorter and shorter as the sun dips lower and lower into the sky.

On December 22nd, the sun reaches its lowest point in the sky, where it then remains stationary for three days. It was said to have "died." On December 25th, it begins its ascent. This accounts for Jesus's (and many other deities) birthday.

Easter (celebrated not on a specific day, but suspiciously close to the vernal equinox) is the celebration of Jesus's resurrection. This is viewed as his victory over the darkness--following the Vernal equinox, day light outlasts night in the northern hemisphere. The symbolism of the death sequence is taken from the sun's behavior on Dec 22nd-25th, but the resurrection was not celebrated until light prevailed over darkness. Thus, it was moved to th Vernal equinox (after all, it would not make sense for the deity's birth and resurrection to occur on the same day).

There are other, less vital parallels to be drawn. They reveal in even greater depth the astrological foundation of the bible. We can get into these if there is interest, but I spare you them for now in order to keep my post merely long-winded.
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The etymology of particular words is also pertinent to this discussion. What at first seems mundane can become incredibly fascinating when you look further. To me, there is little more satisfying then understanding where something came from--why things are the way they are.

In the ancient Egyptian belief system, Horus (a sun god) battled Set, a night god, every day. He would lose as night fell, but "come again" the next day. Here is where we have some interesting terminology:

Horus = Horizon
Set = Sun Set

Another Egyptian deity was "Ra." This is likely where the term "ray" as in "sun ray" came. The phrase "Amen-Ra," used by the Egyptians, is obviously the root of "amen."

Less certain (but still one hell of a theory) is the origin of the name "Israel." Jordan Maxwell believes the name is a combination of the gods "Isis" "Ra" and "El." He also asserts that it is not hard to know the correct day of worship: if you worship "El" (Saturn), your day of faith is Saturday. If you worship a sun god, your day of worship is Sunday.
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I undoubtedly will be jumped upon the creation of this thread. True, these realizations might be upsetting to some. Others will simply dismiss them. This is their prerogative.

However, if we assume that the historical records are accurate, that there really does exist countless deities that highly resemble are own Christ, it should place serious doubts on the validity of these beings. Those who reject the information are in denial. The followers of those other deities believed in them no less devoutly than we believe in Jesus--they are not "false prophets" any more than Jesus is a "false prophet." There may still very well be a god, but I am convinced that Jesus is not his son. The bible is not about the literal story of a man named Jesus, but a retelling of the story of the zodiac--the greatest story ever told.

Here is a great site if you're interested in exploring this further. Note that it is written by a person who was once a Christian, and still happens to believe in a god.

cover page jesus and path of the sun

This sounds a lot like the Zeitgeist concept...wasn't that thread locked? And no, I'm not dissing the theory, it's just I think this has been presented before.

Originally Posted by Prince Shade

This sounds a lot like the Zeitgeist concept...wasn't that thread locked? And no, I'm not dissing the theory, it's just I think this has been presented before.

Admittedly, Zeitgeist was how I was exposed to astrological theology. However, it is not like the concept originated with that movie (although watching the first section will give you a tremendous overview of what we're discussing here). Detractors will probably discredit the first portion of Zeitgeist on the basis that is is very biased. This may be, but if the evidence presented is factual, the conclusions still stand.

The uncanny resemblence between Horus and Jesus (not to mention other deities) simply cannot be a coincidence. They were both born of virgin mothers on December 25th, died on a cross, were buried for three days and were reborn. They shared many titles like "the Lamb of god" and "the light of the earth." These are the basics, but the paralells run much deeper than this. If the data collected on Horus is factual, the only defensible argument for a Christian (it seems) would be that Horus and other sun gods are merely false prophets that exist to test our faith. But this is just silly. Faith not only devoid of reason, but against reason, should not be admired.

Again, this assumes the data on Horus and other gods are accurate. It is possible (though highly unlikely) that researchers with an anti-Christ agenda fabricated the data--we are at the mercy of information collected by others. If it could be reliably shown that Jesus was NOT simply a plagarism of earlier gods, then I would retract this entire argument.

Just a slight correction on your facts here, Eldin - Jesus was not born on December 25th; that is merely the date we celebrate the event. He was actually born sometime around Easter (whatever the real date for that is).

Originally Posted by Tiroth

Just a slight correction on your facts here, Eldin - Jesus was not born on December 25th; that is merely the date we celebrate the event. He was actually born sometime around Easter (whatever the real date for that is).

I was not aware of this, but I don't think it puts the theory here in question, for a couple of reasons.

-His birthday is universally celebrated on December 25th.
-Jesus may very well have not even been a real person.

People will contend the second point, but you sure would think there would be more in the historical record about the most influential person to have ever lived. Almost nothing is known about Jesus's life from the age of twelve to thirty. Incidentally, this too has an astrological explanation.

Both Jesus (and Horus) retreated to their respective temples at the age of twelve, a reference to the position of the sun at its highest point--noon--"The Temple of the Most High."

Jesus (as Horus) was baptized and began his ministry at the age of thirty. This is a reference to the sun moving in to the next sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees. (360 degrees divided by 12 signs = 30)

Again, I marvel more at the sophisticated measurements of the ancients than anything else. And again, I could buy the story if it was characteristic of just Jesus. But when you have Horus, who predates Jesus, following the same pattern, an explanation is in order.

A few other things to mention.

The cross is not a sign of Christianity, but a pagan symbol. In earlier times, Jesus, the "son" was placed in front of it, explaining the circle in the middle:

Sign of the Zodiac:



Pagan Cross:



The pagan cross is the sign of the zodiac, with the sun in the middle (the circle). Jesus's face has been imposed on the circle in artwork. He is the sun.

Finally, let's look at some very telling passages in the bible:

Matthew 14:17

"And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes."

Fish symbolism is abundant in the bible. The specific mention of two fish is very important. The two fish represent the zodiac sign Pisces. This is because Jesus's reign has been in the kingdom of Pisces.

The "kingdoms" or "mansions" are based on the signs of the zodiac. They are known as ages.

John 14:2

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

This passage doesn't even make sense unless we interpret metaphorically. The house of heaven has many mansions. The mansions are the signs of the zodiac. We are currently in the age of Pisces, but will soon be entering the age of Aquarius (look on the zodiac if you do not believe me).

Luke 22:10

"And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in."

The man bearing a pitcher of water is a clear reference to Aquarius and the astrological foundation of the bible. When Jesus says that the end of the world is coming, it is not to be taken literally. "world" is a mistranslation of "age." The age of Pisces is giving way to the age of Aquarius. Nothing more.

One more example. Moses (who is also based on characters from earlier religions) is angered when his followers are worshiping a golden calf. This has nothing to do with worshiping a false idol. The calf is a symbol for the zodiac sign of Taurus--Moses knew that his followers must shed the "old age" as they entered into the age of Aries, the ram. This is why Jews blow the ram horn.

The ages have gone: Taurus--Aries--Pisces--Aquarius:

This procession is consistent with the sign of the zodiac and the bible.

It is all too easy to find connections between any two things.

That said, all religions being casted from a similar mould wouldn't surprise me much, they all came from humans, ultimately.

That said, all religions being casted from a similar mould wouldn't surprise me much, they all came from humans, ultimately.

Right.

The main reason I find this theory to be such a strong, cohesive "mold" is that it explains, better than any other, the parallels of a multitude of deities.

Standing on its own, the theory would be a large stretch. However when you become aware of the many connections between Horus and Jesus, many of which could not reasonably have been a coincidence, it becomes compelling. After all, there is no question that Horus was a sun god. If Jesus is a plagarism of Horus, then he too would be a sun god.

Also, I forgot to mention one other obvious astrological reference--the Virgin birth.

It originates with the zodiac sign of Virgo the virgin. Virgo is the only female sign, and aside from the twins, the only humanoid figure. She is the basis of many female deities

Originally Posted by Eldin

Right.

The main reason I find this theory to be such a strong, cohesive "mold" is that it explains, better than any other, the parallels of a multitude of deities.

Standing on its own, the theory would be a large stretch. However when you become aware of the many connections between Horus and Jesus, many of which could not reasonably have been a coincidence, it becomes compelling. After all, there is no question that Horus was a sun god. If Jesus is a plagarism of Horus, then he too would be a sun god.

Also, I forgot to mention one other obvious astrological reference--the Virgin birth.

It originates with the zodiac sign of Virgo the virgin. Virgo is the only female sign, and aside from the twins, the only humanoid figure. She is the basis of many female deities

While Jesus's story could be based on that Zodiac thing, the sayings definitely came from either a large group of people with the same idea of things, or one prophet who would represent historical Jesus put into this pagan religious framework, correct? I mean, it matches up pretty tightly Theologically.

So, what's the thought on that, as it is relevant in that it signifies a difference between the two; the sayings and the zodiac journey of Jesus and Horus?

The evidence does seem very good, but I wish there was a bit more data that bridged the gap between the New Testament story (interesting that the Old isn't relevant in this...could it be the Greek element? I dunno. Seems like that) and the Zodiac thing. Like GDwarf said, similarities can be drawn to say anything, even if this does look very unlikely to have so many coincidences. Also, the mystery religion element comes into play, but I return my questioning to where the sayings come from originally: one man or many?

Anyway, discuss.

I am not sure to be honest. If I had to guess, I would say that information for the bible was compiled by a large group of people working together. But I really couldn't tell you.

However, I will continue to put forth interesting connections, and people can make of them what they will.



Here is the famous "last supper" painting. Notice that the disciples are in rather distinct groups of three. This probably isn't an accident.

The four "groups" represent the four seasons. Each individual disciple represents a month, or a sign of the zodiac, which the sun travels about with.

This might also be where we get the idea of four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The four gospel's collectively tell the story of god's sun.

JordanMaxwell.com

^This is another very good article that is easy to understand.

Wasn't December 25th the Roman Pagan festival of Saturnalia (about Saturn, their analogue to Zeus- and before you talk about the similarities of Roman and Greek gods, that's because the Romans basically stole the greek pantheon when the pre-roman Latins came in contact with Magna Graecia) and they kind of tacked Jesus' birthday onto that date later on?


The similarity of the vast amount of Asian and Western gods probably derives from the proto Indo-European cultures of central Asia, which later on evolved into most of the languages spoken today in Europe (the only languages not derived from indo-european to my knowlege are Basque, Hungarian and Finnish), the former Arab and Ottoman empires (inc. Africa and the Maghreb) and India- and you'll note that these cultures also have similar gods with vast differences. And the cultures not in contact with cultures that derived their language from indo-european have been influenced by them- Buddha was Indian and when Buddhism moved westward, he carried indo-european influences with him. Take a look at the ancient Greek, Germanic, Celtic, Roman and Caananite pantheons and tell me how similar they are. Now compare the pantheons of China and Mesoamerica and you'll notice only strenuous similarities.

Well, I've never really been able to see designs in the stars, so I won't say much.

The only thing I'll say is, to my knowledge, Israel's ancient Hebrew language does not contain the word, "Saturday", and the ancient Greek language does not contain the word, "Sunday". These were both English words. Now, admittedly, Saturday is derived from the name of a Greek/Roman god, but it wasn't the name of a day, and, even if it was, that's a Greek/Roman origin, not an Israeli origin as that theorist implies. The calender system we use wasn't created until the 500s or so. Thus, I find it hard to believe that Saturday and Sunday have any significance in regards to names.

Not that it means much to the theory as a whole, but that point about the names simply does not fly.

About the names of days- in most Romance languages, "Tuesday" is derived from the latin, "Mars Dias", Mars-day. Tyr, or Tue, was the Germanic god of war and the analogue of Mars which the Roman influenced Angles chose to represent that day.



Also, another point- take note of the similarities of Inuit, Ainu, Sami and Aleut religions, they're non-Indo European, transcontinental (European, Asian and American) and all have related languages, lifestyles and/or religions.

Not that it means much to the theory as a whole, but that point about the names simply does not fly.

For the record, in ancient Hebrew, Saturn was known as El.

Regarding your argument here, I don't know. I think it is entirely possible that these days of the week had different names (with similar meanings) early on, and simply evolved to the way it is today.
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Here, I would like to bring up another example of astrology in the bible. First, it is necessary that you know that certain poisonous scorpions in the Middle East leave a characteristic mark on their victims. This mark resembles human lips. Hence, the origin of the phrase "kiss of death."

In the bible, there is a passage where Judas, the man who betrayed Jesus, kisses him. The explanation given is that he is "identifying" him. But this doesn't make any sense. Everyone would have known who Jesus was. The word used was "betray." This story makes no sense taken literally.

Taken allegorically, on the other hand, it is absolutely brilliant. Judas gave Jesus the "kiss of death." The scorpion imagery invites us to invoke "Scorpio," a sign of the zodiac, which occurs in the "fall." "Fall" refers not to the falling of the leaves from the trees, but the lowering of the sun in the northern hemisphere sky as the winter solstice approaches. This "fall" metaphorically represents the fall of Christ, the fall of the sun (son), betrayed by the scorpion who gave him the "kiss of death." It is sheer brilliance.