Magic: Fact or Fiction?

I agree that major psychics are certainly frauds. I read an interesting article on cold reading once, and then I watched a few minutes of John Edwards-- and they're right, he's really a very poor cold reader. I suppose once you know the mechanism it seems all the more obvious, but even then, it's pretty bad.

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Although I don't personally rule out magic/psychics, etc. according to my belief system. The only problem is that the only place for that in my belief system would be demonic-- which means that I wouldn't dare meddle in anything of the sort. Magic, in my opinion, and in the Christian vision, is the antithesis of prayer, and intrinsically evil. I do not rule out the presence and activity of the demonic on earth, but I do think, as a rule, it is best left alone.

I do have some affection for the, "St. Michael the Archangel prayer."

So, Kitsune, while I am open to the possibility that people who use magic or allegedly have psychic powers are exhibiting a genuinely praeternatural phenomena, I do take a negative view towards it, which is, in any case where it genuinely occurs, I would in any case be opposed to its usage.

-Rob

Originally Posted by Lysis

Spoon bending has nothing to do with psychics.



The article then goes on to describe various other ways to bend spoons "magically" or "psychically," all involving misdirection.

I didn't do it with my hands. I just stared at it, put another spoon under it, and the curve was noticable.

I would guess that the bend was already there maybe?

Originally Posted by Lysis

psycho- (tele-) or pyrokinesis, mind reading, clairvoyance (or "fortune telling"),

Being Clairvoyant is not fortune telling, bro. Get your facts straight before you start coming around and throwing your skepticism all over these awesome threads.

Clairvoyance is the ability to communicate and see objects, beings, etc from other realms (such as the other side). Clairuaudience is the ability to hear these things.

Actually, come to think of it, I do recall knowing that at some point. Either way it shares the same fate as other "psychic abilities" as nonexistent.

And I respect your opinion, man. It just ticks me off when people argue about stuff and it's not even the correct terms, etc.

I can tell this thread is going to go nowhere fast, much like recent posts in the ghosts thread.

I've got something to say to those who already believe in the paranormal.
I am not sure of the existence of the 'standard' psychic powers or magic, but I know for certain that I get genuine Deja vu. Of course there is no physical evidence, but this form of deja vu is different from the type most people know (just finding something...familiar); the form of deja vu I get is where I dream something, then it actually happens later; sometimes just days, sometimes months, my mum(aka. mom) even had a separation of a few years between the dream and the event.
My deja vu was rather simplistic; I was sitting down in a large meeting hall, then I got up and looked to my left, seeing lots of chairs in rows.
My mum's deja vu was a bit more though; she told me that in her dream, her family was in a car in a foresty area, and her mum opened the door as a bear was coming toward the car. The actual event was in the US, and my grandma had opened the door because it was very hot inside the car. Of course, she closed the door when she saw the bear.

^ I've actually had a few cases of Deja Vu, where I had dreamt the event before. Although this hasn't happened in a few years. Now, I just get regalur Deja Vu.

Originally Posted by bonog dude

I've got something to say to those who already believe in the paranormal.
I am not sure of the existence of the 'standard' psychic powers or magic, but I know for certain that I get genuine Deja vu. Of course there is no physical evidence, but this form of deja vu is different from the type most people know (just finding something...familiar); the form of deja vu I get is where I dream something, then it actually happens later; sometimes just days, sometimes months, my mum(aka. mom) even had a separation of a few years between the dream and the event.
My deja vu was rather simplistic; I was sitting down in a large meeting hall, then I got up and looked to my left, seeing lots of chairs in rows.

It was to simplistic to the point that it was bound to happen one time or another. How often do you think you will find yourself in some large hall? Of course if you are sitting in it, you will have to get up(unless your bound to a wheel chair) Looking to your left or right is just a common thing. After school assemblys I often look to my right and left, seeing rows of chairs in both directions.

Your dream was to simple and common, it was bound to happen one time or another in your future.

My mum's deja vu was a bit more though; she told me that in her dream, her family was in a car in a foresty area, and her mum opened the door as a bear was coming toward the car. The actual event was in the US, and my grandma had opened the door because it was very hot inside the car. Of course, she closed the door when she saw the bear.

This doesnt prove anything really. So you were in a forest area, not to uncommon in the U.S. I also know for fact it can become very hot outside. So wanting to get out of a car when its hot is just common if the air conditioner doesnt work.(its going to be worse in the car then out of the car)

And the reaction to the bear is what anyone would do, close the door.

This dream you claim more of is not much more then your own. All common and every day things: Forest, heat, bear, car, closing car door. Now ok, the whole bear thing may not be that common.

Actualy that dream seems to come out of a some horrible camping comedy. About some family camping when the air conditioner breaks on the hottest day of the year, as they try and get a bear comes along.

Originally Posted by Symphony_X

Being Clairvoyant is not fortune telling, bro. Get your facts straight before you start coming around and throwing your skepticism all over these awesome threads.

Clairvoyance is the ability to communicate and see objects, beings, etc from other realms (such as the other side). Clairuaudience is the ability to hear these things.

Actually, according to most dictionaries, clairvoyance is the ability to see the future, as well as general ESP. Of course, each clairvoyant defines it differently, just as most psychics claim to have different powers. But in any case, it doesn't take a significant vocabulary to be skeptical of these things. We examine the specific claims made by these people; not the ability in general.

Originally Posted by bonog dude

the form of deja vu I get is where I dream something, then it actually happens later; sometimes just days, sometimes months, my mum(aka. mom) even had a separation of a few years between the dream and the event.
My deja vu was rather simplistic; I was sitting down in a large meeting hall, then I got up and looked to my left, seeing lots of chairs in rows.
My mum's deja vu was a bit more though; she told me that in her dream, her family was in a car in a foresty area, and her mum opened the door as a bear was coming toward the car. The actual event was in the US, and my grandma had opened the door because it was very hot inside the car. Of course, she closed the door when she saw the bear.

A lot of people get that feeling, but there are a few things to consider. First, did you write down that dream after you had it? If not, we have a tendency to alter our memories, especially our memories of dreams. It is quite possible and likely that your dream was entirely different, but when you had your "deja vu", your memory jumped to that vision. Second, how many dreams do you have that don't match future events? When we have thousands of dreams and thousands of events occurring, probability predicts that some of these will match up. But we have a tendency to prioritize and forget the ones that don't match up, so when they do, it seems like a big deal.

So try writing down your dreams every morning, and then see what proportion comes true later, and think about whether your frequency of accurate dreams is predicted by chance.

I agree with every single post since my last.

Bonog Dude: a lot of people tend to dream stuff then see it come true at any given time period later on. It's cool that you and your mom share this, but like someone already said, it doesn't really prove any point you were trying to make. If you dreamed that you were in a hall, stood up and saw a man in a SuperMan t-shirt wearing black gloves and neon green pants walking to you from your left and then saw him in real life, THEN you'd have a damn good example.

I get normal Deja Vu once in a while, nothing special. I think it's the human body/minds weakened sixth sense (which is what I believe separates us form physics, they simply have a sharper, more toned sixth sense).

Awesome posts guys!

Don't worry, I write down all of my dreams, and have been doing so since I was 14 (18 now)

Also, I can understand your responses, but to the person who mentioned this:

Originally Posted by Minion of Talazar

This doesnt prove anything really. So you were in a forest area, not to uncommon in the U.S. I also know for fact it can become very hot outside. So wanting to get out of a car when its hot is just common if the air conditioner doesnt work.(its going to be worse in the car then out of the car)

And the reaction to the bear is what anyone would do, close the door.

This dream you claim more of is not much more then your own. All common and every day things: Forest, heat, bear, car, closing car door. Now ok, the whole bear thing may not be that common.

Actualy that dream seems to come out of a some horrible camping comedy. About some family camping when the air conditioner breaks on the hottest day of the year, as they try and get a bear comes along.

Just remember that not everybody lives in the US; My mum had the dream while she was living here in Australia.

I like to believe what you are saying is true. It has been proven that humans do not use all of their brain, and I always wondered what would happen if you could somehow unlock the other part of your brain.

Originally Posted by felix

I like to believe what you are saying is true. It has been proven that humans do not use all of their brain, and I always wondered what would happen if you could somehow unlock the other part of your brain.

This is false. Everyone uses all of their brain. Not at once, I'll grant you, that causes a seizure, but there is no portion of the brain that simply isn't used.

Originally Posted by GDwarf

This is false. Everyone uses all of their brain. Not at once, I'll grant you, that causes a seizure, but there is no portion of the brain that simply isn't used.

Or perhaps you mean that a seizure causes use of the entire brain?

-Rob

Originally Posted by GDwarf

This is false. Everyone uses all of their brain. Not at once, I'll grant you, that causes a seizure, but there is no portion of the brain that simply isn't used.

Really? Well I remember reading the other somewhere before, but I do not remember how reliable the source was. But I have heard it numerous times, so I do not know what to believe. I am not trying to be rude or anything, but do you have a source? I do not for what I said because I read it a while ago somewhere I do not remember.

Originally Posted by felix

Really? Well I remember reading the other somewhere before, but I do not remember how reliable the source was. But I have heard it numerous times, so I do not know what to believe. I am not trying to be rude or anything, but do you have a source? I do not for what I said because I read it a while ago somewhere I do not remember.

To quote wikipedia.

Humans use only 10% or less of their brain: Even though many mysteries of brain function persist, every part of the brain has a known function.[7][8][9]
This misconception most likely arose from a misunderstanding (or misrepresentation in an advertisement) of neurological research in the late 1800s or early 1900s when researchers either discovered that only about 10% of the neurons in the brain are firing at any given time or announced that they had only mapped the functions of 10% of the brain up to that time (accounts differ on this point).
Another possible origin of the misconception is that only 10% of the cells in the brain are neurons; the rest are glial cells that, despite being involved in learning, do not function in the same way that neurons do.
If all of a person's neurons began firing at once, that person would not become smarter, but would instead suffer a seizure. In fact, studies have shown that the brains of more intelligent people are less active than the brains of less intelligent people when working on the same problems.
Some New Age proponents propagate this belief by asserting that the "unused" ninety percent of the human brain is capable of exhibiting psychic powers and can be trained to perform psychokinesis and extra-sensory perception

I don't know anything about the seizure stuff.

Originally Posted by Eternal Paradox

To quote wikipedia.



I don't know anything about the seizure stuff.

Thank you! That does seem more logical.

Originally Posted by Bobslob

Or perhaps you mean that a seizure causes use of the entire brain?

-Rob

Perhaps it would be better phrased this way: Using all of your brain at once is a seizure.

Psychic are very real, yet somehow magic isn't? What is there to suggest that psychics aren't using magic. Magic is described as something done using physical phenomena; what stops Psychokinetics (collective term for any kenesis) from being magic?

Physics is science. Science involves taking facts and forming conclusions and theories based on those facts. Magic is a fancy word for "impossible". To prove "magic" exists, you must redefine it. What I consider magic and what you consider to be magic may be different, but really, you can't be serious in suggesting that what most people to consider to be magic is true. Nobody can magically vanish a helicopter or summon fire at will. All "proof" of magic can't be anything more than coincidence. Any small group of people who are determined enough to prove the existence of Thor or the Flying Spaghetti Monster can just as easily prove the existence of what most consider to be "magic". Perhaps, maybe, all of Physics is false, but such a claim like this cannot be made when one is up to critical thinking, which is supposed to eliminate mistakes such as biased research. Coincidence leads to fatal errors, especially when it proves itself abundant. Critical thinking aims at minimizing these mistakes.