Do Animals Get Into Heaven?

Originally Posted by Leinator

What partial judgments? Does a pack of wolves have a little moral talking circle to decide whether or not it's right to hunt a pack of bunny rabbits? No, they just do. We, however, have actual differences between each individual person. We have individualism. We have advanced society, We have creativity. All things that come with being sentient. Most of all, however, we are aware of ourselves. We can have rational thought, and choose what to do in situations based on judgement. Any animal, however, when presented with the same situation, will do the same thing as another animal of it's race. They're programmed by instinct, so to speak.

Animals fight over female animals. Animals fight over the territory of other animals in their species. Animals "greedily" fight over food. Animals often fight over things they "want" rather than "need" as well. Just like we do. They're not doing anything wrong, however, because they're instinctive. We've got reason though, and many people have realized that killing another human being is simply wrong. This is the moral difference between animals and creatures with higher thinking.

A dog learns tricks because you repeat movement so many times that it becomes mechanic. He learns the tricks to get a treat, which is just instinct. A dog will never create a tool though. A dog won't learn to communicate other than feral signaling techniques that are also instinctive, and proven so. A dog will never develop any new skill unless it's programmed instinctively or programmed by a human. Assuming Darwinian evolution is true, they may someday evolve self-consciousness and learn to....learn, but it doesn't change the fact that they can't now. If you raise a dog as if it was a human, it will still always act like a dog.

I don't have the time to make a long post at the moment so I'm going to post a link to this site instead.
Take a look, your view of other animals as biological machines (I assume that's a fair analogy of your view?) is quite antiquated.

Originally Posted by Cheesy Triforce

Do you think that animals make it to the Heaven or are they dammed to Hell? Let me take one animal for and example: dogs. Dogs show unconditional love and loyalty and would gladly give up their lives for us. They also have a large capacity for forgiveness. One dog was beaten and underfed to the point of near death but when police came to save it, the dog wgged its tail and didn't show even a remote amount of aggression towards the police. What do you think? I believe dogs and other animals make it into Hevean simply because they show no cruelty and go by nature which was created by God. If you're an athiest and don't believe in Heaven and Hell then don't you at least think that animals get rewarded when they die? Give your thoughts please.

My grandmother is one of those people that thinks animals have no souls, so they don't go to either place. "If the bible doesn't say it's so, then it isn't so." You know those kinds, even though the bible never mentiones dinosaurs once.

I'm sure all living things have souls to some extent. If we have them, then all living things should have them. Higher intelligence doesn't make us that important. I can't imagine any kind of paradise that doesn't include animals.

Some of the most fun I've ever had is playing with puppies. They are cute, soft, and full of joy.

Originally Posted by MMKB

I don't have the time to make a long post at the moment so I'm going to post a link to this site instead.
Take a look, your view of other animals as biological machines (I assume that's a fair analogy of your view?) is quite antiquated.

MMKB, the idea of animal sentience is an extremely biased and touchy one, because it's one of the biggest issues in the animal rights debate. I can guarantee you that no website or "essay-like" argument is going to give you an accurate portrayal of animal's minds. For this reason, I suggest that you find only sanctioned scientific studies. I'm sure the animal welfare institute isn't biased at all, but it's always good to be on the safe side.

Either way, I'm agreeing that they have memories and such. They aren't machines, but they also aren't "self-aware." They aren't individualistic, they don't create, and they don't practice rational thought through language. Yes, some animals recognize different people and animals and even themselves in mirrors, but no one's denying they have memories. Being "sentient" goes far beyond recognizing the image of yourself in a mirror.

Originally Posted by Leinator

I'm sure the animal welfare institute isn't biased at all, but it's always good to be on the safe side.

Haha . Very true.
I posted it mainly as you seemed quite biased on the matter and that it might be good to see from the other side's point of view, even if they might hold some bias too.
You are quite right in saying it's a controversial and touchy matter, both sides of the debate hold valid points - it isn't just black and white, there are many shades of grey to be found here.

Originally Posted by Leinator

They aren't machines, but they also aren't "self-aware." They aren't individualistic, they don't create, and they don't practice rational thought through language.

I think you might be getting more into the realm of 'I think, therefore I am' type philosophy here. We think in our various languages, animals don't have these types of language so therefore they don't think like us? Of course they don't, I posted a link earlier to a site made by a guy with autism. He described the way his mind works as totally different to a normal person, thinking more in pictures and visual representations than language. Who's to say animals don't think in a similar way?

Here's some good Scientific American articles on the topic (or roundabout ):
Darwin at the Zoo: Scientific American

Understanding Violence: Scientific American

Apes may lead to origin of language: researchers: Scientific American

It's Not What Chimps Say, It's What They Gesture: Scientific American

Why Are Some Animals So Smart? -- [ INTELLIGENCE AND EVOLUTION ]: Scientific American

Studies Show Chimps to Be Collaborative and Altruistic: Scientific American

Chimps Found to Conform to Cultural Norms: Scientific American

Primates Protest: Unfair!: Scientific American

Orangutan Technology: Scientific American

Crafty Crow Rivals Primates in Toolmaking: Scientific American

My Bible teacher says animals don't have souls and they completely disappear when they die. Also when he asks if anyone has any "prayer requests" he refuses to pray for animals! Just one more reason why I can't stand religious people.

I think, that if there is a heaven, everyone goes there. I don't think there is a hell. Life is too strenuous and stressful to be punished at the end. Why would you be punished for doing bad things when you die, when, in heaven, there wouldn't be any reason to do any bad things like commit crimes?

Originally Posted by Hyperbadox

My Bible teacher says animals don't have souls and they completely disappear when they die. Also when he asks if anyone has any "prayer requests" he refuses to pray for animals! Just one more reason why I can't stand religious people.

I think, that if there is a heaven, everyone goes there. I don't think there is a hell. Life is too strenuous and stressful to be punished at the end. Why would you be punished for doing bad things when you die, when, in heaven, there wouldn't be any reason to do any bad things like commit crimes?

Where does it say that people who do bad things go to Hell, and people who do good things go to Heaven?

Originally Posted by SevenYears

If they don't, then "All Dogs Go To Heaven" has tricked me!

Yes, because dogs are good and cats are evil. So implies the sequel.

At least we don't have people coming into classrooms and disecting live dogs and such like that one guy did. I don't remember his name, but I can't believe anyone would believe that an animal screaming and struggling for its life doesn't feel pain.

Anyway, I don't believe that having a higher IQ makes us that much more improtant than animals. Many animals are intelligent, just not in the same way that we are. Many animals can use what's around them to make tools, and build collosal structures.

Just look at what termites can do! I laugh at the Ifiel Tower and Impire State Building when I see termite mounds on TV. About the best thing Humans have done as far as structures is the pyramids and Taj Mahal, and not even those equate to what the blind bugs do with spit, poop, and dirt.