Were the Earth and animals, etc, created by random chance?

Originally Posted by GDwarf

Yet the laws of chemistry say it's entirely possible.

Possible, yes. Likely, no.

No, everything is dated using substances that we know the base amount of.

From the time it was first there? Wow, that's pretty amazing.

Because, I don't know, we have a brain twice the size of theirs?

Elephants and whales have bigger brains than we do. Why aren't they smarter than us?

Source for babies reacting to music?

I've observed this phenomenon for myself. My cousin, who's just less than a year old, will kind of "dance" when listening to music. Even when I pat a beat on the floor, she bounces around a bit.

Anyways, once again, if your brain is twice the size of something else's it stands to reason that it'll be able to do more. Couple that with the fact that humans are capable of an incredibly wide range of communication (which has an evolutionary advantage) and our love of music isn't too hard to see.

I highly doubt elephants and whales comprehend music the way we humans can.

By the way, those points seem familiar, did you just copy them off of a creationist website? If so I must ask you to not do that, if I wanted to I could do the same thing with a pro-evolution website.

No, they came strait from my head.

Have you read any of my posts at all? I've addressed both of those ideas.
Besides, even if evolution is wrong, that doesn't prove creationism right, and I note that you don't list any evidence that proves creationism to the extent that you demand evolution be proved.

Hmm... You're probably right, but from the way I see it, I don't see what else there could be. It seems to be either Evolution or Creation. I can't see any other alternative.

I have one source that tops them all. However, I must ask that you not just link to sites, paraphrase what they say, otherwise MH and I have to go through countless links to try and figure out what your point is.

Usually, my links are just additions to my posts. They aren't really there to prove a point, specifically. Speaking of proving points, this entire post was basically an attempt to prove that Creationism isn't founded on blind faith. Blind faith is when you have absolutely nothing to back up your claims. Creationism has its evidence. Whether you see them as evidence or not, it is still more than blind faith.

Anyways, what's this source of mine? http://www.talkorigins.org/ , I guarantee that it will show every single creationist website you link to to be wrong

Just a question: What makes one source cretitable and the other not? How do we know for sure?

Originally Posted by Yottabyte

Possible, yes. Likely, no.

Since it took about a billion years to happen you're right that it wasn't all that likely. However, with those chemicals constantly combining everywhere on Earth for a billion years it seems like even if it was one step from impossible it would've happened.

From the time it was first there? Wow, that's pretty amazing.

What?

Elephants and whales have bigger brains than we do. Why aren't they smarter than us?

Source for that?

Hmm... You're probably right, but from the way I see it, I don't see what else there could be. It seems to be either Evolution or Creation. I can't see any other alternative.

All the same, if I only thought that there could be breathing through gills and breathing through skin I couldn't say that since humans don't use gills they must breathe through their skin, could I?

Usually, my links are just additions to my posts. They aren't really there to prove a point, specifically. Speaking of proving points, this entire post was basically an attempt to prove that Creationism isn't founded on blind faith. Blind faith is when you have absolutely nothing to back up your claims. Creationism has its evidence. Whether you see them as evidence or not, it is still more than blind faith.

Fair enough, but when all of your evidence is wrong...

Just a question: What makes one source cretitable and the other not? How do we know for sure?

What sources it cites, who wrote it, why they wrote it.
Talk Origins cites sources, was written by people who actually know the subject, and it was actually written to be an impartial evaluation of both sides.

Originally Posted by GDwarf

Since it took about a billion years to happen you're right that it wasn't all that likely. However, with those chemicals constantly combining everywhere on Earth for a billion years it seems like even if it was one step from impossible it would've happened.

How exactly do we know for sure that it took billions of years?

What?

I'll try to word this better: So they know how much of the base substance was in the fossil at the time it was first created? Wow, that's amazing!
The only way of us accurately knowing this is going back in time, find what we're dating, measure the substance, come back to our time, date the substance, and compare the two, if my understanding of radiometric dating is correct.

Source for that?

Human's Brain weight: 1,300-1,400g
Elephant's Brain weight: 6,000g
Blue Whale's Brain weight: 60,000g
Bottlenose Dolphin's Brain weight: 1,600g
Sperm Whale's Brain weight: 7,820g

Brain size has little, if nothing at all to do with inteligents.

Don't believe me? Go here.

All the same, if I only thought that there could be breathing through gills and breathing through skin I couldn't say that since humans don't use gills they must breathe through their skin, could I?

True. I wasn't saying that there wasn't any other possibilities, I was just saying that I couldn't see any other possibilities.

Originally Posted by Yottabyte

Human's Brain weight: 1,300-1,400g
Elephant's Brain weight: 6,000g
Blue Whale's Brain weight: 60,000g
Bottlenose Dolphin's Brain weight: 1,600g
Sperm Whale's Brain weight: 7,820g

Brain size has little, if nothing at all to do with inteligents.

Don't believe me? Go here.

I believe it's the size of the brain in proportion to the size of each part of the brain which serves a certain function. I'm just guessing, but I'd imagine that a whale's brain, although large, has much larger lobes than that of a human, each one in term needing larger elements in order to properly function.

Originally Posted by GDwarf

Yet you don't know enough to know that humans didn't evolve from apes? As for Jesus and evolution, I fail to see any connection at all between the two.

In that case, why are there still apes? And how come they die apes and not humans?

Because apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor. As GDwarf said, humans did not evolve from apes. Apes die as apes because...they're apes...changes don't occur during the lifespan of a specimen, but occur in their offspring. And then their offspring can have slight changes, and so and so on until a specimen is so different than the original that it cannot breed and produce fertile offspring with a member of the original species.

It's not like, say, Pokemon, where an ape gets enough Exp. they'll evolve into humans.

Originally Posted by Yottabyte

How exactly do we know for sure that it took billions of years?

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, the first signs we have of life all start about 3/3.5 billion years ago.

I'll try to word this better: So they know how much of the base substance was in the fossil at the time it was first created? Wow, that's amazing!

Not really, since the substances used to date these things are always present in certain amounts, if they weren't then the whole Earth has altered drastically since when the creature that left the fossil was alive.

For more info go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_dating

Human's Brain weight: 1,300-1,400g
Elephant's Brain weight: 6,000g
Blue Whale's Brain weight: 60,000g
Bottlenose Dolphin's Brain weight: 1,600g
Sperm Whale's Brain weight: 7,820g

Brain size has little, if nothing at all to do with inteligents.

Don't believe me? Go here.

Ah, this is my mistake. The measurement for intelligence is brain to body ratio, so an elephant, having a much larger body then a human, would be less intelligent unless it's brain was much larger.

Originally Posted by jesusworshiper

In that case, why are there still apes?

Why wouldn't there be apes?

And how come they die apes and not humans?

Why would they die as humans?

I don't recall saying anything that would mean that there are no apes or that they'd turn into humans.

Originally Posted by GDwarf

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, the first signs we have of life all start about 3/3.5 billion years ago.


Not really, since the substances used to date these things are always present in certain amounts, if they weren't then the whole Earth has altered drastically since when the creature that left the fossil was alive.

For more info go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_dating


Ah, this is my mistake. The measurement for intelligence is brain to body ratio, so an elephant, having a much larger body then a human, would be less intelligent unless it's brain was much larger.


Why wouldn't there be apes?

Why would they die as humans?

I don't recall saying anything that would mean that there are no apes or that they'd turn into humans.

You said apes turned into humans, and if they die as humans then they're humans. I'm done. I'm not trying to convince you, I was just posting my oppinions.

Originally Posted by jesusworshiper

You said apes turned into humans,

No, I specifically said that they did not, rather we shared a common ancestor with them.

and if they die as humans then they're humans.

I still don't quite understand this part, if I take it literally it makes sense, but it's also very self evident, it's like saying that if you die as a mouse then you're a mouse.

Originally Posted by jesusworshiper

You said apes turned into humans, and if they die as humans then they're humans. I'm done. I'm not trying to convince you, I was just posting my oppinions.

I don't think that's what he said, but I'll try to clarify this.

Humans and apes both evolved from a common ancestor. The most likely scenario is that our ancestor lived in wooded areas. One population moved into grassy areas, and the rest stayed, turning into modern day apes. The animals that would later turn into humans were now isolated from most apes.

This would make a lot of sense, because we don't have many early ape fossils, but we have a huge amount of human fossils. If you go to Africa and dig up bones, you'll notice that animals living in grassy areas tend to fossilize much more easily. Animals in the woods decompose much more quickly, I think.

So let's turn the question around. If humans and apes moved into separate environments, why should apes be extinct?

Ah, this is my mistake. The measurement for intelligence is brain to body ratio, so an elephant, having a much larger body then a human, would be less intelligent unless it's brain was much larger.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, it's the amount of wrinkles in the brain, and not the brain size that determines intelligence. I'm not sure how to verify this, so if anyone knows...

Originally Posted by D3PyroGS

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, it's the amount of wrinkles in the brain, and not the brain size that determines intelligence. I'm not sure how to verify this, so if anyone knows...

The wrinkles increase the surface area, effectively increasing the size of the brain. However, it's the Brain to Body Mass ratio that is used (at least as an approximation) to determine how intelligent a creature is.

To me, evolution is like a misconsumption, I quite don't follow the evolution part. I could see the "Big Bang" happening, I have nothing wrong with that,its probably God followed. I don't think the Earth was created randomly, if so, why did we appear? For what reason? I think that life has a meaning, but thats getting off topic. But, what I have trouble seeing is evolution. If you have ever read the Bible, then you would know Adam,was created first, by dust,and somthing else. then Eve came,and was created by one of the ribs God took from Adam. and then they had to have children,and so on and so forth. Well, if we were created by random chance,then how did we get here. Its like typing in a certain code, google plexes,and google plexes of numbers to type in, and you don't know the code,and punch in random numbers by not looking. And if their was somebody that knew the code,and punched it in right,which i'm useing an example to show you how random of us appearing from random chance. How come we are like the only planet were life can live? And two,how come every thing is perfected,such as "the food chain." I don't see life being so random,it seems like something so orginized. I think the "Big Bang" is true,but has to be God followed in some way.(i've been over that before.) Right now, I just can't see how we are the dominate species, Their is a God, I believe there is one anyways,and I don't believe the Earth animals,ect. was created by random chance.

Originally Posted by theGA/\/\Er

I don't think the Earth was created randomly, if so, why did we appear? For what reason?

The Earth's creation wasn't random, well, it was, but it's also the result of incredibly ordered processes. Essentially if you have matter in the universe it will attract other matter to itself, which will form stars, planets, comets, moons, meteors, etc.

As for why we're here, I don't think we particularly have a purpose.

But, what I have trouble seeing is evolution. If you have ever read the Bible, then you would know Adam,was created first, by dust,and somthing else. then Eve came,and was created by one of the ribs God took from Adam. and then they had to have children,and so on and so forth. Well, if we were created by random chance,then how did we get here. Its like typing in a certain code, google plexes,and google plexes of numbers to type in, and you don't know the code,and punch in random numbers by not looking.

Actually, typing in a googolplex of random numbers is essentially what you'd have to do to create a human using just DNA, however, that's not how it happened.

What happened is closer to someone typing one digit, then one of their children typing another one, if that digit helped them survive it stayed around and was passed on to their children, who also got to type a digit. etc. To be clear though, every time a digit is typed it is 'error checked', if you will, if it doesn't help the species survive or if it has a negative impact on the species, it probably won't stick around.

And if their was somebody that knew the code,and punched it in right,which i'm useing an example to show you how random of us appearing from random chance. How come we are like the only planet were life can live?

We're the only one in our solar system, however, if we just throw out some wild guesses.
Let's say that there are a trillion stars to a galaxy, (I'm fairly certain that it's more, but it'll do for this example.) let's also say that our solar system is pretty average, so the others will also have 8 planets. If we then assume that only .01% of the planets in the universe can support life, we still get 80 000 000 000 planets in our galaxy alone that could support life, if you then multiply that by the trillions of galaxies that exist...

And two,how come every thing is perfected,such as "the food chain."

Essentially because it evolved that way. The fundamental error you're making is assuming that everything was created as-is, if that was the case then your arguments would be good ones, but since evolution has species adapting over time to survive better/kill better it ends up with a sort of natural arms race, which gives you a well balanced food chain.


Just some advice for next time: You have some interesting ideas, but you need to separate them into paragraphs. It makes it much easier for everyone else to understand what you're saying.

Just for fun, here is some current evolution.

The researchers analysed DNA from Drosophila subobscura, a species of fruit fly originating in Europe, but which spread to the west coasts of South and North America in the late 1970s. They took samples in 26 locations in Europe, South America and North America where the fly species had been analysed before for chromosomal changes.

These changes, called inversions – constituting a flip of the order of DNA sections – tally with latitude and, by implication, with ambient temperatures.

Hey look, beneficial mutations!