Shotacon and Lolicon

Yeah, fairly certain that this topic has NEVER been brought up in the SD. For those of you on the confused side as to what Shota and Loli are, well... direct your attention to these two links. Warning, slightly sexual images lie at these links. (They're wiki, so it ain't that bad.)

Lolicon
Shotacon

So, what are you guy's opinions on this not-so-new matter? I myself find it to be funny and enjoyable for a good time, and I even invited a friend over with popcorn just to read through some shota doujins (comics) just for a laugh. No, not masturbation. Although, my bias on Lolicon/Shotacon and its role in masturbation are not only going to remain disclosed, but don't pertain to this thread.

So, should this stuff be banned like regular Child pornography? Or is this just another chance for anime artists to show what they can do? Personally, I prefer the latter.

Oh, by the way, if you're going to say "It's just wrong", try and provide a reason. I've always wanted ZU's opinion on this. XD

I think it's kinda...wrong...if it encourages any kinds of acts I think it should be banned. but what the heck, those artists can do what ever they damn well feel like when it comes to manga.

(On another note, I knew you'd come up with something like this as a thread)

If they do it for artistic reasons, then it's fine. But if they're doing it for someone sort of sexual reason(like masturbation) then it's just wrong. And even if it's just art, it still seems kind of wrong.

It's fine, it's fantasy, it doens't involve any real people, leave it as is. There are many men and women who fantasize about sexual relations with young children, but are smart enough never fully realize their fantasy, instead they use other means such as shota or loli hentai, or roleplay sex. Any "strange" fetish hentai doesn't really intend to encourage such actions, it simply acts as an outlet for sexually frustrated individuals.

People have their fetishes, especially post WWII japan... they are realllly "messed up" (I use quotes only because if some of you knew my sexual fantasies you'de think I was messed up, same goes for most of humanity).

Oh and, hentai isn't really isn't all about the artist and his work, it's purely adult entertainment, with well trained illustrators, think of well drawn hentai as the Vivid Video of porn.

I think it's a bit ridiculous. If there can be a plotline, then whatever. But if it exists purely for the sexual implications, then it's a bit much.

No children are sexually abused, so... I guess it's fine. Simple as that. >.>


No really, I'd rather have a pedophile(sp?) read these kinda comics then abusing a child. (reading these comics don't neccesarily make you a pedephile though.)

Originally Posted by Jayolorin

...if it encourages any kinds of acts I think it should be banned.

Does the depiction of something taboo encourage the audience to partake in it, or does it act as an outlet for sexual feelings that are inappropriate to express in real life? I read something ages ago about the sexual culture of Japan - specifically about sex crimes, and how Japan had very few (which could mean just very few reports), which this article suggested was directly related to the availability of sexually explicit/dissident manga because it allowed people to deal with their desires and not need to express them inappropriately.

At any rate, I don't think it's the same a child porongraphy. It's not real. No one is being directly exploited, abused or victimized by it - and I firmly believe that blaming art (even pervy art) for problematic behaviour is pathetic and lazy.

Originally Posted by Iroas

No children are sexually abused, so... I guess it's fine. Simple as that. >.>


No really, I'd rather have a pedophile(sp?) read these kinda comics then abusing a child. (reading these comics don't neccesarily make you a pedephile though.)

Quoted for truth. I sometimes look at loli and shota for laughs and kicks, because when you mix little kids, hilarious situations, and absolutely horrible japanese translations... you get some ****ing funny stuff. XD

Originally Posted by pipking, second speaker of truth

Does the depiction of something taboo encourage the audience to partake in it, or does it act as an outlet for sexual feelings that are inappropriate to express in real life? I read something ages ago about the sexual culture of Japan - specifically about sex crimes, and how Japan had very few (which could mean just very few reports), which this article suggested was directly related to the availability of sexually explicit/dissident manga because it allowed people to deal with their desires and not need to express them inappropriately.

At any rate, I don't think it's the same a child porongraphy. It's not real. No one is being directly exploited, abused or victimized by it - and I firmly believe that blaming art (even pervy art) for problematic behaviour is pathetic and lazy.

Also quoted for truth. I myself (even though I'm 14, which still allows me to be the object of pedophilia) have very, very low minimums for "pleasureable" age limits. I mean, nothing drastic like 3 year olds (that's just a bit...too far. O_o) But mix that with the fact that I'm also one of ZU's biggest pervos, AND a bisexual... hm. Getting off topic. Actually, no, I'm not.

I would never do anything like that to a real child, but with these doujins, it's easy if I'm feeling a craving in... that department. And if nto, I read'em anyway for kicks. XD

I think this is one of the most disgusting things to do with art, ever.

Why? because the process and effect is longer and more profound than just reading/watching once, twice monthly or yearly.

I am speaking of a critical engendering process. Where something profoundly unacceptable worms it's way into becoming acceptable and normal within society. Something frowned upon, shunned and abhorred becomes marketed and spread, dressed up gorgeously.

It is a matter of paedophilia being unacceptable IN PRINCIPLE. You have a fetish about kids? keep it to yourself. If you market and spread it, you're helping to make it acceptable.

If you read and begin to enjoy trash like this, you won't REALLY be disgusted when you hear about paedophilia cases around you in real life. How can you when you enjoy it? if you sTILL go ahead and act disgusted, then allow me to brand you a hypocrite.
When have a saying: "God has not put 2 hearts in one person". You are either disgusted by something or find it pleasurable. Pick your stance and stick to it.

Yes, indeed some translations are horrible:

"I am come! Power much!"

XD

I say let the loli and shota lovers have their fun. The hentai life is a fun life style to live. Perhaps, for some people, loli would encourage them to molest their little neice/nephew. If you take that matter into hand then decisions become difficult. People need to be like me. I like to watch.

Originally Posted by Anime_Queen

I think this is one of the most disgusting things to do with art, ever.

Why? because the process and effect is longer and more profound than just reading/watching once, twice monthly or yearly.

I am speaking of a critical engendering process. Where something profoundly unacceptable worms it's way into becoming acceptable and normal within society. Something frowned upon, shunned and abhorred becomes marketed and spread, dressed up gorgeously.

It is a matter of paedophilia being unacceptable IN PRINCIPLE. You have a fetish about kids? keep it to yourself. If you market and spread it, you're helping to make it acceptable.

If you read and begin to enjoy trash like this, you won't REALLY be disgusted when you hear about paedophilia cases around you in real life. How can you when you enjoy it? if you sTILL go ahead and act disgusted, then allow me to brand you a hypocrite.
When have a saying: "God has not put 2 hearts in one person". You are either disgusted by something or find it pleasurable. Pick your stance and stick to it.

o_o...

Jesus Christ, A_Q... I just said I like it because I find it funny. It's not as if ALL loli is pleasureable... only a little is. Christ.

And really, quoting LordRein (whatever his name on ZU is now), a good lolicon/shotacon enthusiast friend of mine:

Originally Posted by LordRein

When you're as young as like... 10-14, if you're not looking at the ****ing young stuff like 5 year olds, then I just consider it a way to relate easier to masturbate, because porno in your own age group is illegal. This stuff isn't. It doesn't make me a pedophile.

Mkay, so he faps to loli. I don't. But that isn't the point. The point is that when used by people in the relative peer group, it shouldn't be frowned upon AS MUCH. Or at least in this user's opinion. I do, however, have a problem with guys in their 20+'s looking at the stuff. I plan on ditching all of my lolicon with my new computer, which I'll be getting in a few years, so I'm merely enjoying the laughs while I can, because as I grow older, my minimum age grows older with me as well.

Besides, porn is just blech.

EDIT: I reread your post, and caught something.

Originally Posted by Anime_Queen

You are either disgusted by something or find it pleasurable. Pick your stance and stick to it.

If you're directing this directly at ME, well then I ask you this: What the hell?

I never said that I find Loli to be disgusting or appalling. So please, don't direct stuff like that at me if it's got no justification.

Originally Posted by Safer

Jesus Christ, A_Q... I just said I like it because I find it. It's not as if all loli is pleasureable... only a little is. Christ.

You just like it because you find it? ... that sentence doesn't make sense to me, at all.

And what's your point about not all Loli being pleasurable? what is the point of it, but to glorify paedophilia and encourage people to not feel guilty about fantasising about such things publically? (It's officially "public" as soon as it becomes allowed to buy and sell that crap)

Originally Posted by Safer

The point is that when used by people in the relative peer group, it shouldn't be frowned upon AS MUCH. Or at least in this user's opinion. I do, however, have a problem with guys in their 20+'s looking at the stuff. I plan on ditching all of my lolicon with my new computer, which I'll be getting in a few years, so I'm merely enjoying the laughs while I can.

That's so ignorant. Who do you think draws and markets that stuff? 14 year olds?
If it's being marketed and encouraged, then it is no matter who buys it. You're being hypocritical if you start to lay tabs and borders on who it becomes acceptable to sell that garbage to. What rIGHt do you have to say that it's fine for you and your peers to buy/read but it suddenly becomes wrong when others buy it?
Paedophilia is paedophilia and all of it is wrong in bare minimum principle.
It is like saying that only women are allowed to buy women's magazines. I know a couple of gay colleagues who buy them because they publish the best images of the gender they love best. My point here is that once you start to sell something, you can't put rules on who's allowed to buy it or not.
It's catering for everyone, paedophiles included and priMARILY even. Go feed their sick obsessions then tell me it's alright and justified.

Originally Posted by Darunia the 3rd

any kind of hentai is ill-perverted sexuality. the name Hentai means sexual pervertion or something related. Encouraging pedephilia just makes it worse. and you need to have a seriously ill mind to like it. Shame on you!

You talking to me?

...

You must be talking to me, I don't see anybody else that post relates to.

I seriously think that you're lying about your age on your profile, perhaps even your sexuality. If in fact you are a fifteen year old male, then stop pretending. You're 15. You have raging hormones. Deny it on the forums all you want, but I know the truth. Plus, liking porn doesn't make someone less of a person. Someone can like porn, but volunteer at the homeless shelter or something. Take me for instance: I have seen my fair share of pornoghraphic materials, but I am a deeply spiritual person (don't really show it on the forums...).

Oh, and I never said I liked lolicon... or shota. Even I did like the stuff, at least it's not guro.

...

Dammit. I like it, okay. Not the shota, though. The loli. The point is, I didn't say anything about it in the other post. One mistake people make about loli is how young they are. We're not looking at freakin' third graders. We're looking at girls that are close to my age (I'm 15). How can I be a pedophile when I, myself, am young enough to be in shotacon? Loli is the only way for me to see animated girls my age.

Never knew I was that big of a pervert, did you!? HAHAHAHA!!!

Like I said before, sexual fetishes, no matter how strange they are, even if they break certain laws, are fine, if never fully acted out.. (I wish people would read my posts more often)

Loli and shota hurts no one, it keeps people who would attempt to act out their fetishes at home, touching no one, just themselves.
Pedophelia is only wrong when it's fully realized, but sitting there and thinking about it is no crime, saying that thoughts themselves are wrong is really what sickens me.

Originally Posted by Anime_Queen

You just like it because you find it? ... that sentence doesn't make sense to me, at all.

And what's your point about not all Loli being pleasurable? what is the point of it, but to glorify paedophilia and encourage people to not feel guilty about fantasising about such things publically? (It's officially "public" as soon as it becomes allowed to buy and sell that crap)



That's so ignorant. Who do you think draws and markets that stuff? 14 year olds?
If it's being marketed and encouraged, then it is no matter who buys it. You're being hypocritical if you start to lay tabs and borders on who it becomes acceptable to sell that garbage to. What rIGHt do you have to say that it's fine for you and your peers to say but it suddenly becomes wrong when others buy it?
Paedophilia is paedophilia and all of it is wrong in bare minimum principle.
It is like saying that only women are allowed to buy women's magazines. I know a couple of gay colleagues who buy them because they publish the best images of the gender they love best. My point here is that once you start to sell something, you can't put rules on who's allowed to buy it or not.
It's catering for everyone, paedophiles included and priMARILY even. Go feed their sick obsessions then tell me it's alright and justified.

Typo on my part. My apologies. ^^; It was meant to say "find it funny."

Now... >> I hope we can do this just debating, because you sound angry. >>

Safer doesn't like people to be mad at him. XD

Anyway. Now, when I say OTHERS, I refer to the real pedophiles, the guys that stay up till 4 in the morning on myspace looking for little girls. The guys that can't be helped. I never said it was OKAY for people in the realitve age group to like loli or get it, I said it shouldn't be frowned upon AS MUCH. Why? Because they're not hunting girls 10 years younger than them. You are right, however, in the fact that it doesn't change even though they're younger, but that doesn't change the fact that it should still be treated less seriously than the REAL pedophiles.

And for Christ's sake, it's CARTOONS. Cartoons. Not real. It doesn't matter if it promotes the real stuff, it's cartoons. Fake. Blah. Never happened. For some, it might encourage real pedophilia, and that's a shame. For some, it's funny stuff to just read through and laugh. For others, it's a great way to... yeah... when you find pornography to be to graphic on a certain night or something.

The point is, it's cartoons. It isn't as mentally harmful as real child porn, which I don't support.

And my REASON behind that, before you call me a hypocrite, is BECAUSE Lolicon and Shotacon are exactly what I've been saying. Cartoons.