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  #41 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 05:56 PM
Big One Big One is a male United States Big One is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

A_Q: You know, it's kinda good, in a debate such as this, to actually, like, give logical reasons.

When you can't do that, you officially sicken me.
  #42 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:03 PM
vacumgod United_States vacumgod is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime_Queen
I rest my damned case.
There we go. And here we start to grow our paedophiles-to-be. It has already become so that "there is nothing wrong" with it.
I never, in my life, thought I'd ever hear something like this.
You and Safer offically sicken me.
Keep in mind they're both young and are attracted to those of their age just as we were once 9-14 and attracted to those of our age, I don't think that necesarrily means they will be paedophiles, it just means they are both have sexually active minds.


A_Q We both know that paedophelia is wrong, and if we ever met in person we would both promote attitudes that frown upon such behavior, but well, we have different ways of dealing with certain fetishes.

Yes, I'm sure we both beleive that humans have the right to think whatever they want to, but of course there are certain thoughts that if acted out may harm others.
I beleive that, in order to prevent such occurances, that certain mediums should be used to promote these fantasies in a purely fictional realm, basically allow the thinker to use his imagination though outside sources.
You beleive that, because such thoughts are wrong, they should probably be disposed of, that the person seek therapy in order to rid him/herself of these obviously immoral thoughts.

Is Paedophelia bad?, yes, children deserve their innocence.

Is Hentai art?, No, it's adult entertainment, it exsists soley for sexual purposes.

At least we can agree on these two subjects.
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  #43 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:03 PM
Big One Big One is a male United States Big One is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

And when was this?

Sorry for the short post, but that's all I can really say. :/
  #44 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:04 PM
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime_Queen


How will it not, Vega dear?
14 and 15 year olds have posted in this thread speaking of their enjoyment of this sick genre. Did you ever think of pornographic paedophilia at that age? was it common for it to be accepted at such an early stage? if that isn't putting thoughts and iMAGes .. (heck it's all about putting clear and undisputed porno imagery in the brain so I don't know how that came about) into people who'd otherwise nOT have thought of such disgusting things in their minds, I don't know what is.
Maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't think you can stumble across such material. My thinking is, that in order to seek it out, then you have to have an idea of what you're looking for. I'm not sure if I'm making this clear, or if it's particularly clear in my head.

See, when people look for porn, they know what they like, and that's what they go looking for. I don't think people go through the process of 'Oh, this might be interesting'.

By my reckonning, people are looking for a translation of their own fetish or preference on paper.

I don't really think it's particularly different from people who fantasise about rape, which I think is on a similar vein to what vacumgod was talking about, power. I could go into the development of psycho-sexuality, but I think that would swerve the topic into a totally different direction. Whilst I may not want to look at such material, as long as its production isn't harming anybody, I don't know if I'm in a position to condemn those who do. I mean, there's alot of 'rape' porn out there, but I don't think fans of such material will neccessarily go out and rape somebody.

Am I making any sense here? o_o
  #45 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:04 PM
Safer Safer is a male United States Safer is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andross
This seems to be proving my theory... First, people will have a homosexual rights movement. Homosexuality isn't much of a problem. But, it will eventually lead to a pedophile rights movement.

Well, this is why pedophilia is wrong. Most kids, not until they reach the age of 11 or 12, do not know what sex is. Most kids, until they become 13 or 14, are not even interested in sex. Most children do not want to have sex. And, most children are not responsible enough to have sex. They need to know that sex can be very dangerous. It can make you pregnant and lead you into financial chaos. It can give you terrible diseases. Sex should not be had until the age of 18, because kids are not responsible enough to have it. They just treat it like a game. Not an act of intimacy.
I thank you for your reasons. And now I will counter, like a *looks at A_Q* civilized, calm debate should be.

Kids learn about sex way earlier than that, dude. The average is around 8-10 years of age. Interest with sex, with girls, doesn't come for awhile, normally until post-adolescence. Interest with sex in guys, well, it varies. For me, I've always been curious. No. Stop right there. Not pervertedly. Before I knew what sex was, I've been curious.

I am NOT justifying Pedophilia. It is wrong. A_Q is right there. However, acts that depict Pedophilia in cartoons aren't wrong. Why? Because of the verb "to depict". It's a cartoon, not a real life person. It is not real. Never will be. Because it's on paper.
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  #46 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:06 PM
arigato99 United_States arigato99 is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Wrong.
a child looking at child pornography doesn't lessen the slightest jot of the fact that it remains child pornography. Paedophilia is paedophilia. kiddie porn is kiddie porn, whaTEVER the age of the person doing the oogling.
Also, you'll find that 16 year olds won't really be looking at 12 year olds at all. They don't go out and buy "Sabrina the teenage witch" magazine if they wanted to be turned on, they'll go for playboy and the like. and who said that 40's only look back to 30? xD
You misread me, I was talking about it in terms of style. Vacuumgod made the point that society demands that people look young and fresh all the time, and I was commenting on it.

Though you, animequeen, make a really good point about being born into it. I think the biggest fear with the "prettifying", to use your word, of this smut is that it'll become a cultural norm. Look at anime in general: before Pokemon you almost never saw it. I remember seeing my first Japanese cartoons in grade school and being blown away by how different they were from things like Looney Toons and X-Men. Nowadays Japanese cartoons and comics are everywhere. Every book store, even the big ones like Borders, have a manga section. Suncoast and Blockbuster have anime sections. Even the dollar stores carry Yugioh merchendise.

Also remember that there are two cultural forces in America that never happened in Japan: Christanity and Freud. We're taught to be reserved and uptight about our sexuality, and the Japanese aren't. Sex isn't this other world to them like it is to us, it's part of dinner conversation, so to speak. And for anyone who would take this the wrong way, I'm not saying the Japanse are pedophiles, I'm simply pointing out the different in their attitudes toward sex.

Quote:
Since the beginning of time. And, it is pointless to be attracted to children, because they can never be attracted to you. Tell me- Do you believe in true love, or just sex?
The idea of romantic love was not invented until the Itialian Renaissance by Petrarch. Before then "love" was all about getting married and having children, in simple terms, sex.
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  #47 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:10 PM
vacumgod United_States vacumgod is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safer
I am NOT justifying Pedophilia. It is wrong. A_Q is right there. However, acts that depict Pedophilia in cartoons aren't wrong. Why? Because of the verb "to depict". It's a cartoon, not a real life person. It is not real. Never will be. Because it's on paper.
However, whenever one depicts an action, any action, one runs the risk of glorifying it, making it seem ok. Now of course I assume that when most people read a loli they don't finish reading it saying "ahhh so sex with little girls is ok because of this 36 page depiction" But their initial veiws on paedophelia being sick as twisted are definantly subdued because they were given to chance to indulge in the fantasy itself. Now for some people reading so many shota's may result in them totally beleiving that shota is ok, that the man who had sex with 7 yr. olds should be set free... And that is a problem.
Hopefully most of humanity is smarter than that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arigato99
The idea of romantic love was not invented until the Itialian Renaissance by Petrarch. Before then "love" was all about getting married and having children, in simple terms, sex.
Actually, early on in human development sex became pleasurable, and soon after humans developed the release of certain hormones that actually make you attached to the person whom you are having sex with a "love horomone" if you will. but yes, it was much later that the concept of love and romance was fully realised.
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  #48 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:13 PM
Safer Safer is a male United States Safer is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by vacumgod
However, whenever one depicts an action, any action, one runs the risk of glorifying it, making it seem ok. Now of course I assume that when most people read a loli they don't finish reading it saying "ahhh so sex with little girls is ok because of this 36 page depiction" But their initial veiws on paedophelia being sick as twisted are definantly subdued because they were given to chance to indulge in the fantasy itself. Now for some people reading so many shota's may result in them totally beleiving that shota is ok, that the man who had sex with 7 yr. olds should be set free... And that is a problem.
Hopefully most of humanity is smarter than that.
Which it is. The bottom line is, here, not everyone who reads a loli or shota, which sometimes can even have extrodinarily well-done plots (when you look as much as I do, you find them occasionally), is going to become a pedo. The world isn't, most of the time, stupid. Just as there are physical abnormalities, there are mental ones as well.
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  #49 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:14 PM
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

I'm beyond quoting you people. I can smell the lock.

First of all, Luke FTW. That is all.

Secondly, I am not okay with the actual, real life acts of pedophillia. I don't care if people read it. I don't care of people enjoy these comics. As long as they're not going out and raping little boys and girls.

And AQ, first of all, I don't think you ever got my point. I was never saying that I support pedophillia, but there is nothing wrong with a drawing, or a fantasy, or a comic book. It's the people who are wrong, and if loli or shota influences soemone to become a pedophile, it's their fault for not being able to seperate fiction and reality. Just because someone plays violent videogames doesn't mean they're going to go out and hack someone to pieces. Just because someone reads lolicon doesn't mean they're going to go molest a little girl. As I said before, I'm sure some people read it for amusement, not for sexual satisfaction, and if someone is aroused by these comic books I doubt it was the comic book's fault. I don't think a love for twelve year olds is an aquired taste.

Second of all, seeing as how Luke and Safer are both 15 and 14 years of age, it would be natural for them to be attracted to thirteen or fourteen year olds. I'm deeply offended by your suggestion that they will one day become pedophiles. I'm also offended by the fact that you called them "sickos". And yes, please, give facts. Don't just babble on, insulting people and refusing to consider others points. If you would've done so, you never would've thought that I "find nothing wrong" with pedophiles. I just don't think you can blame a comic book for something like this.

EDIT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safer
Which it is. The bottom line is, here, not everyone who reads a loli or shota, which sometimes can even have extrodinarily well-done plots (when you look as much as I do, you find them occasionally), is going to become a pedo. The world isn't, most of the time, stupid. Just as there are physical abnormalities, there are mental ones as well.
Exactly. People have other reasons for reading this stuff. And if someone is stupid and sick enough to try and act out the things depicted in a comic book, then yes, freaking lock them up.
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  #50 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:15 PM
Mr.Man Ireland Mr.Man is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

I've been keeping an eye on this thread but have refrained from posting until now. Andross you are beginning to irriate me. First off,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andross
First, people will have a homosexual rights movement. Homosexuality isn't much of a problem.
Since when has homosexuality been a problem? Yes, there are people that disagree with it but it is simply somebody's sexual interests, they don't always have a choice in it. The mentality of this comment just really pissed me off. Pedophilia is a different case but so don't bring compare it to homosexuality. For the record, I'm straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andross
Yeah, but dude, it's already made f-cking apparent that people should be attracted to those of their own age, not children. A long time ago.
There isn't any age that people should be attracted to. The majority of people are attracted to those of their own age but that isn't always the case. There are those that are attracted to different ages. Pedophilia isn't the only case of this, there are people that are attracted to those older than themselves but that isn't consider wrong is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andross
Since the beginning of time. And, it is pointless to be attracted to children, because they can never be attracted to you.
Again wrong, there are many little kids that are infuated with older people.

One final thing, I am against pedophilia but I am simply saying that it is in human nature to be attracted to different ages.
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  #51 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:17 PM
vacumgod United_States vacumgod is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safer
Which it is. The bottom line is, here, not everyone who reads a loli or shota, which sometimes can even have extrodinarily well-done plots (when you look as much as I do, you find them occasionally), is going to become a pedo. The world isn't, most of the time, stupid. Just as there are physical abnormalities, there are mental ones as well.
Then I would reccomend reading some material that isn't meant for soley sexual purposes, your basically reading well made pornography, and yes, hentai is pornography. If your fine with strange looks and such then by all means continue this "hobby"
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  #52 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:19 PM
Safer Safer is a male United States Safer is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Man
I've been keeping an eye on this thread but have refrained from posting until now. Andross you are beginning to irriate me. First off,



Since when has homosexuality been a problem? Yes, there are people that disagree with it but it is simply somebody's sexual interests, they don't always have a choice in it. The mentality of this comment just really pissed me off. Pedophilia is a different case but so don't bring compare it to homosexuality. For the record, I'm straight.



There isn't any age that people should be attracted to. The majority of people are attracted to those of their own age but that isn't always the case. There are those that are attracted to different ages. Pedophilia isn't the only case of this, there are people that are attracted to those older than themselves but that isn't consider wrong is it?



Again wrong, there are many little kids that are infuated with older people.
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  #53 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:22 PM
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Paedophilia is bad AND wrong. Very wrong. Period. This is not an opinion, it's fact. NO justification needed whatsoever.
Nothing needs no justification. There is obvious and abundant justification that molestation of children is wrong: mainly the emotional and physical trauma caused to the children.

There is reason to believe, however, that phedophilia may be an intrinsic quality of a person: a person may have no choice that he or she has these attractions. However, it is easy for anyone to understand why acting on these attractions with real people is wrong.

To create fictional characters with which to live out fantasies might allow such a person to restrain him or herself from doing any harm to a real person. Isn't that a good thing?


And a mod note: One more hint of flaming and this topic gets closed, with strikes handed out. I'm about to review what's already been posted and there may be strikes coming as it is.
  #54 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:29 PM
Anime_Queen Anime_Queen is a female United Kingdom Anime_Queen is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safer
But don't you DARE get off calling me or my friend a pedophile-to-be. You have no right to call me or anyone that based simply on a preference. Maybe I don't like the way you walk, or the way you brush your hair, or the way you enjoy yourself? That doesn't mean I assume anything from it. If you do something I find wrong, I'd respect it and understand that you think that way.
Safer, anyone who finds nothing wrong with paedophilia is disgusting. You cannot compare brushing hair with an adult molesting a child. Let's find a definition for paedophilia, k?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
"Asia, what's wrONg with paedophilia? give me fACtual reasons"
Fine, young man.

Consider what points wikipedia brings about the subject:

Quote:
The distribution of child pornography increases its availability.

Commercial trade in child porn with the producers motivates them to produce further pornography for monetary reasons, while commercial trade in materials obtained from other sources may indirectly stimulate the existence of the child porn market through infamy.

It has been suggested that the consumption of child pornography encourages sexual interest in children and lowers thhe threshold of a person's willingness to engage in sex with a child. It has also been asserted that such material can be used to persuade children to engage in sexual activity with an adult.

According to the UK children's charity, NCH, it has been reported that many child sex offenders acknowledge that exposure to child sex images fuel fantasies and played an important part in leading them to commit physical sexual offences against children [3].
On drawn child porn especially:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Proponents of prohibiting such materials argue that they might encourage child molesters and, when shown to a child, may give the child the impression that the depicted acts are normal (the term grooming is used in this connection); prohibition of possession could help prevent it from being shown to a child.
Is that enough factual and logical arguments for you, Luke and Safer?

That is an answer to all the flimsy "it's a cartoOoOooOn" arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trico
Nothing needs no justification.
You misunderstood me, Trico. I meant there is no justification for child porn and depicting children being molested. That is what I meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding my wording has caused.
Crap! O.o this thread has grown fast xD
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Last Edited by Anime_Queen; 06-27-2006 at 06:37 PM. Reason:
  #55 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:31 PM
2 Dope United_States 2 Dope is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

I am going to flat out say, pedophilia is ****ed up. The people who do that to children need to burn, but when such fantasy is looked at through a DRAWING, who is the victim? Using a drawing to let an urge out does no harm to anyone(except the man's sperm count, ah thank you). A man going and raping a little girl is wrong, but to say that he can't choke his meat to a DRAWING? INK AND PAPER? It is hentai, a DRAWING depicting a sexual act. Not a real boy or girl doing these acts, 'Tis pen and paper, nothing else.
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  #56 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:32 PM
arigato99 United_States arigato99 is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
The bible was written hundreds of years before the Renaissance, and it spoke of how sex should be special between two people. Also, the beginning of time part of my post was oriented to the fact that people should always be attracted to people of their own age, or at least a sensible age, since the beginning of time. Are children ever interested in sex? No. Then, why should adults be interested in having sex (Or being attracted to) children, if it will always fail?
You kind of proved my point. Romantic love as defined by Petrarch actually had little to do with sex or marriage. Sex was even considered "impure" to romantic love, because sex was all about lust and desire, while love was more of a spirital/psychological bond between two people. I know that was a half-assed explanation, but pick up a copy of The Sorrows of Young Werther by Goethe for an excellent depection of what that ideal of romatic love is.

One reason that's given for pedophelia (doesn't apply to call cases) is that the adult has the mentality of a child. They can't relate to people their age because it makes them feel inferior mentally, so they are attracted to children because they don't feel as intimidated.
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  #57 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:32 PM
Safer Safer is a male United States Safer is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime_Queen
Safer, anyone who finds nothing wrong with paedophilia is disgusting. You cannot compare brushing hair with an adult molesting a child. Let's find a definition for paedophilia, k?


"Asia, what's wrONg with paedophilia? give me fACtual reasons"
Fine, young man.

Consider what points wikipedia brings about the subject:



On draw child porn especially:
Shotacon and Lolicon


Is that enough factual and logical arguments for you, Luke and Safer?

That is an answer to all the flimsy "it's a cartoOoOooOn" arguments.

...

Wow. I wonder... hm... is this the... 4th time I've said this. PEDOPHILIA IS WRONG. Images depicting it are fine, because they AREN'T Pedophilia. I know Pedophilia is wrong! I know that touching little girls and boys is wrong, but not when it's being done to ink on paper. That, my friend, is fine. Because it ISN'T REAL.
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Last Edited by Safer; 06-27-2006 at 06:42 PM. Reason:
  #58 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:35 PM
Mr.Man Ireland Mr.Man is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andross
You are beginning to irritate me. First off, I posted my opinion, people cannot respond to it intelligently. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and that means, if you respond, you do not go ahead and say that the person's opinion is stupid and retarded. It surprises me how defensively people can act...
I said that I disagreed with your opinion and stated why, nothing else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andross
A. Why defend Homosexuality if you are straight? It is their battle, not yours. And no, I don't hate gays. My uncle is gay, do you think I hate him? I may consider the act of homosexuality wrong. That is why it is a problem. But it isn't hurting anyone. So, it is not like pedophilia, if you read my post. Pedophilia can harm someone. Homosexuality won't.
Why? Because homosexuals have the same rights as any others. They are none different than anyone else other than their sexual interests. That question is like asking me, why defend my brother when he isn't me. I never said pedophilia was ok, I said that it happens. If you weren't comparing homosexuality and pedophilia please refrain from linking the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andross
B. How many times do you hear of an 8 year old being attracted to a 20 year old? When I grew up, nobody of that age talked about sex. I guess I was lucky to grow up in an age of innocence. 14 years or 15? Maybe they can be attracted to older people. However, that does not mean older people can be attracted to them. Because, they are not responsible enough to have sex. I believe that people should take in how responsible young people are before they are attracted.
Ever had little girls follow you around or keep asking you questions? Young children obsess over older people asking them questions like, what's your girlfriend's name? Or, was that your girlfriend on the phone? That is the subtle hints of the attraction that younger kids feel, its not only the case with girls but with guys as well. It is an attraction that the children don't quite realize but it is still there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andross
C. Well, when I was a little kid, none of them were interested in sex and stuff. They would not talk about sex and stuff. Above ten? Maybe. But not below. I guess I was lucky to be innocent, at least once, in my life.
You are one of the few people, in this day and age, that have had such a sheltered childhood.
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  #59 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-27-2006, 06:37 PM
sugar sugar is a female United States sugar is offline
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safer
...

Wow. I wonder... hm... is this the... 4th time I've said this. PEDOPHILIA IS WRONG. Images depicting it are fine, because they AREN'T Pedophilia. I know Pedophilia is wrong! I know that touching little girls and boys is wrong, but not when it's being done to ink on paper. That, my friend, is fine. Because it ISN'T REAL/
And if drawings of pedophillia encourage the actual actions, there's something wrong with the person who did them. Probably the fact that they were a pedophile before they read the comic.

There's a difference between pedophilliac actions and loli. One's real, the other isn't.
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:37 PM
Feline Witch United Kingdom Feline Witch is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: London
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Re: Shotacon and Lolicon

Quote:
. Why defend Homosexuality if you are straight? It is their battle, not yours
Nononono, considering straght people are the ones who make life diffecult for gay people in the first place. And anyway, why not? If you're a man, you can fight for women's rights, and if you're straght, you can fight for the rights of gay people.

And it is everyone's battle. Not just theirs. People should stamp out prejeduce, regardless of whether they are affected or not. If we can make a difference, we should.
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