Do we have the wrong idea?

I recently picked up the local newspaper. It had an article in it, talking about what Heaven and Hell really are. Now, what it was saying, is that our perception is not right. These are Christians that say that Heaven isn't as glorified as we make it out to be. They say that humans came up with the idea of clouds and angels and heaven and such. What they believe is that humans are just being religiously optimistic, and that is where those ideas came from.

The article goes on to say that Heaven is less of that and more of just living in cosmic unity with God, and being in eternal peace. It said that Hell is not fire and brimstones like humans exaggerated it to be, but more like a state of no unity and no cosmic alliance with God.

Now, I don't know if this guy is right or not. However, I want to hear your thoughts.

Do humans have the wrong idea?

Seeing as the afterlife will exist as it is whether or not we are correct about it or not, I think it is rather irrelevant. However, we know so little about the afterlife, even from a religious standpoint, that I can't see how there could be much material on which to write an article about "religious optimism". The clouds of heaven could just be a metaphor, or it could be what heaven is really like. The same applies to the fires of hell.

Yes, we have the wrong idea. Everybody does. What people learn from the Bible, they each have a different visual. God is energy, basically. (I'm a Catholic, btw, and even I don't fully believe this method, but it sounds about right) That's why he's everywhere among us. Heaven is like eternal peace, but with a deep connection with God. Now, God is for Catholics and Christians. Buddhists worship Buddha, the Aztec *worshipped the sun, and so on and so forth. They, in my opinion, are all the same. Heaven is just a deep eternal peace with that one divine entity. Hell, to me, is like if you are reencarnated as an unfortunate being someplace in the universe. You are treated unfairly, your life sucks... You might not even be an "intelligent" being. Those are my thoughts. They, to me, sound about right, but I am always accepting other peoples' ideas.

Yes, we have the wrong idea. Why? Because no such places exist. Religion was created by man in order to explain that which cannot be explained. Therefore, God did not create man, but man created God, who man says created man.

Originally Posted by Master of ALttP

Religion was created by man in order to explain that which cannot be explained.

Your cynicism amuses me. I could replace the word "religion" with "science" in your post and it would be equally true. Again, do not discount others' opinions as incorrect, especially on account of a lack of proof with which to do so. I should think you'd have learned your lesson in the Imprisoning War debate.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Your cynicism amuses me. I could replace the word "religion" with "science" in your post and it would be equally true. Again, do not discount others' opinions as incorrect, especially on account of a lack of proof with which to do so. I should think you'd have learned your lesson in the Imprisoning War debate.

Heh, you'd think so, wouldn't you? Well, that's just my views on religion. Religion explains things with few or no facts, and is often based on coincidence. Science, however, can be proven. See, I don't criticize individual religions. I criticize religion as a whole. Therefore, I equally dislike everyone's religion. Not openly, just to myself.

I think the Christian idea is that merely living in the presence and glory of God is precisly what makes Heaven paradise, whether or not "streets of gold" is an analogy. And the seperation from Him, regardless of how literal a "lake of fire" should be taken, is what makes Hell torment.

Now I'm not really sure what popular view is on how paradise and torment actually play out, but I'd agree with LionHarted on this one - we just don't know.

I shall also agree with LionHarted, but MOALttP also has a point.

Originally Posted by Master of ALttP

Yes, we have the wrong idea. Why? Because no such places exist. Religion was created by man in order to explain that which cannot be explained. Therefore, God did not create man, but man created God, who man says created man.

See, that would imply that some things are unexplainable, which I'd certainly argue is not true. Anyways, back on topic now...

Well I think in Heaven you party and have fun for all eternity and watch the living but mostly your family. Hell is a place where you are tourtured for being an evil person in life. You may go to heaven if you seem to become good while in Hell. Thats just what I think.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Seeing as the afterlife will exist as it is whether or not we are correct about it or not, I think it is rather irrelevant.

Agreed.

The afterlife is what it is whether we understand it or not. Clearly no one knows what lies beyond this life, but with some deep rational thought it doesn't take much effort to uncover the possibilities. Who says Heaven isn't clouds and angels? It's possible, is it not? Who says Heaven is all clouds and angels? Well the believers that's who.

You believe what you believe. There is no right anwser, and it is as simple as that. People are different, beliefs are different, and religions are different. I'm catholic, but do I believe Heaven truly is what it is said to be? No, not nesessarly.

Like LionHarted originally stated, I too am unable to comprehend how anyone can write an entire article about religious optimisim. All living humans are equally ignorant about the afterlife.

I think a little bit about both perceptions of heaven and hell are correct.

Heaven is not all about clouds and angels but, my bible clearly states in Revelation 21 that there will be no more crying pain or death; It also states in Revelation 21:21, "The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass." So in other words heaven will be as glorified as it's cracked up to be, just in a different way though. That doesn't mean however that there won't be eternal peace and "cosmic" unity with god.

Hell is by all means a seperation from god with no state of unity what so ever. There is still fire and brimstone though, and I know that for a fact. Revelation 21:8 states, "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Which means that anyone who has not submitted their soul and life to god will NOT go to heaven and will burn in hell with the fire and brimstone.

All in all both perceptions of heaven and hell are basicly true if they are both put together.

Originally Posted by Ritowarrior22

I think a little bit about both perceptions of heaven and hell are correct.

Heaven is not all about clouds and angels but, my bible clearly states in Revelation 21 that there will be no more crying pain or death; It also states in Revelation 21:21, "The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass." So in other words heaven will be as glorified as it's cracked up to be, just in a different way though. That doesn't mean however that there won't be eternal peace and "cosmic" unity with god.

Hell is by all means a seperation from god with no state of unity what so ever. There is still fire and brimstone though, and I know that for a fact. Revelation 21:8 states, "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Which means that anyone who has not submitted their soul and life to god will NOT go to heaven and will burn in hell with the fire and brimstone.

All in all both perceptions of heaven and hell are basicly true if they are both put together.

Okay, sry, but I have to intervene. The Bible, is mostly written by human knowledge. Of what they learned from Jesus and what not. Even though I am a Catholic, I do not totally trust the Bible for three reasons: 1.) Human's back then exaggerated what they could not explain. Like, they would probably call a rifle a thunder stick. If they had seen one. 2.) It's human knowledge! We make various mistakes every second of our lives. 3.) The Bible is so frickin' old, we don't know if anything like Jesus even happened back in the past, the Bible could've been tampered with, yadda yadda yadda. You get my point?

Yeah the idea that heaven is a bunch of clouds and winged angels with harms and that hell is all fire and devils with pitch forks is just a bunch of dreamed up stuff. The fact is we know very little about what heaven and hell are like.

One thing that I think is true is that Heaven is being with God after death and Hell is being totaly seperated from God after death.

A lot of times I just think that hell is simple non-existance after death since without God we(or our souls) can not exist.

Some people think Earth is hell and Heaven is just Heaven and if you are bad you must live through Earth again without the memories but when you are good you find out if you were bad at all.

Originally Posted by LOZelda64

Okay, sry, but I have to intervene. The Bible, is mostly written by human knowledge. Of what they learned from Jesus and what not. Even though I am a Catholic, I do not totally trust the Bible for three reasons: 1.) Human's back then exaggerated what they could not explain. Like, they would probably call a rifle a thunder stick. If they had seen one. 2.) It's human knowledge! We make various mistakes every second of our lives. 3.) The Bible is so frickin' old, we don't know if anything happened back in the past, the Bible was tampered with, yadda yadda yadda. You get my point?

You obviously don't know your bible. That was not human opinion, John (the au