Death...

We as people are just a biological system..."Death" is just the end
of that biological system. Just as an animal can die, we will also
inevitably die. Death to me is quite mind boggling, I mean...its
the absolute END....of your entire exsistence, all you've ever
known...any thought you've ever thought, EVERYTHING.
We are all doomed to an eternity of....nothing. Imagine bieng
asleep, forever, without a dream. Sorry for stating the obvious
with this whole thread, but I thought it might be something
intresting to talk about.

Of course none of this really applies to anyone here
who has been impaled by the twisted nails of faith.
so please dont tell me how wrong I am. But do feel free
to state any ideas you may have.

Its going to sound weird but I'm actually looking forward to death in the sens that im anxious to see what's after... If its nothing well... What the heck. I think you can kill a biological being but the soul that makes that person may live forever, we do not know.

Hey, you never know. Maybe there's no such things as souls. After all what gives us our personality is in our brain. At least, scientifically anyway. I however am religious, so I believe in heaven and hell.

Originally Posted by Tralithnar

Hmmm, nice points, but whered you get the idea of us sleeping forever??? Um I'll have more to say on this later, becauze i'm tired and have to get ready for school tomorrow... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

Well, not literally sleeping, you know...just not in a state of mind whatsoever.

I mean its just...what if you died tommarro...what then?
I think that everyone should live life to the fullest, and
dive as deep into the depths of self dicovery as possible.

Death is difficult to discuss, because there isn't anyone who can bring up facts and clarify things for people based on experience. Yes, it may be the ultimate end of perceptual existence, but it may not be, too. There may be a 'soul' that is reincarnated or which moves onto some other existence, there may not - we just don't know.

However, we will all get to find out one day, won't we? In the mean time, enjoy existing while you know you can, just in case.

Death is the process which allows everthing else to keep going. Wether it is the soul or
just your descendants and the other inhabitants on this crazy rock of life. But for now I acknowldge its existants and promptly get back to living.

I think that death is a very scary concept from the naturalistic point of view. The idea that life has no meaning at all - no passion of love, no intensity of thought, no high of happiness - none of it has any meaning at all. The notion that a million years from now it does not matter in the slightest whether you were Hitler or Mother Teresa.

Some will argue that even though we die life does have meaning. I think that you can have all the meaning with a little 'm' that you want but, really, when all is said and done if there is no meaning in life with a capital 'M' (eternal meaning) then, really, ultimately, life is meaningless.

I'd encourage you to check out MH's post in the "solace in atheism" thread. It was a really interesting read for me.

Oh, and btw:

Of course none of this really applies to anyone here
who has been impaled by the twisted nails of faith.

I posted in this thread despite the fact that I am 'impaled by the twisted nails of faith' because I was agnostic at one stage and can relate to what you speak of. I participate in my culture which faces (or as is the case often does note face) this scary scenario daily - just because I have faith does not mean that I am ignorant to the scenario that those with unbelief hold.

I once heard a saying somehere ( I forget where) : "Theres nothing like the thought of death to bring out the zest for life in someone" < or something similar.

I was speaking to a couple of colleagues not too long ago, and of them had just passed through a cancer scare (He came out clear, and so was practically crying with relief)- and so the subject of death came up..
I said that I thought it was important for us to acknowledge and accept death and even keep thinking about it for there are many things to be gained from doing so.
No, it's not just something to depress ourselves but rather, show us just how little precious time we have here. This little precious time we can use in any way we want. We'll leave legacies behind. Some people use that time to solely gratify themselves leading a full selfish life which ultimately ends when the person dies.
Some people lead selfless lives and their deeds continue way past their deaths and so they "live" a lot longer. I believe that that is one way in which a person can increase the "length" of their life- the purpose, if you will.

An arab saying we have goes something like this: "A person can continue living after his death in 3 ways : they leave a positive legacy or children behind with many people who remember the person and pray for him, they leave behind a wealth of useful knowledge that can be passed on and benefit people, or leave a "running" charity"
Also, another arab saying" "If death approaches one of you and in his hand is a tree he was going to plant, let him plant it"
(excuse my crappy crappy translations)
The "running" charity is something like building (digging?) wells that continue to serve people for a long time, or building dwelling places for those who didn't have the means to, or even planting trees that will live on and bear fruit- these are just a few examples.

The people who "plan" to live for a long time - it's useless. We have a prime time that we can use to actually DO stuff which is our youth. After a certain age, our bodies begin to degenerate and we return to the helplessness and dependancy we began with as babies. So .. a person is 80, 90, 110 - what CAN they do then? even if assuming they're not heavy laden with illnesses by then, there's no denying the fraility.

To all those who wish to understand and find purpose in pondering and reflection - Don't you agree that it shows you just how ARROGANT man can be, strutting his stuff and brandishing power, oppressing his brethren when his end is ultimately death?

Originally Posted by Schatten

Its going to sound weird but I'm actually looking forward to death in the sens that im anxious to see what's after... If its nothing well... What the heck. I think you can kill a biological being but the soul that makes that person may live forever, we do not know.

Heh, very true and I agree with you.
One other thing - scientists have looked at what is the "essential" ingredient of life. All of our organs are important and serve critical purposes. However, there HAVE been unexplained sudden deaths where the dead person is young and completely healthy. NOthing is wrong with them biologically.. yet they die. For me, it's proof that there is another unseen unfelt ingredient that we need in order to live, and it's what I like to call 'soul'.
It's funny because .. when I was a kid, I used to be scared that I wouldn't "know" how to die when the time comes for me to xD I used to REALLy be worried but then I'd hear of kids and/or babies who died and think to myself: if tHEY managed it, then surely I'll be clever enough, to, too! xD

Anyway, I've rambled on for too long. I promised myself I wouldn't bog you all down with religious beliefs and I didn't, so, hopefully, you can all relate to what I have said =)

Originally Posted by skate_mate

I think that death is a very scary concept from the naturalistic point of view. The idea that life has no meaning at all - no passion of love, no intensity of thought, no high of happiness - none of it has any meaning at all. The notion that a million years from now it does not matter in the slightest whether you were Hitler or Mother Teresa.

Ah, but it will matter, people will remember you. I, personally, greatly dislike the religious view, either everything you've done has no meaning because you had divine help (It's hardly you that's doing it.), or if you don't behave according to a set of rules that can be and are very arbitrary at times then you suffer forever. There is, of course, heaven, but problem 1 still applies there. Personally, I'd rather be a person who struggled hrough adversity and solved my own problems, I didn't have some omnipotent entity partially solve them, but refuse to ever actually give any sign of his existance.

Some will argue that even though we die life does have meaning. I think that you can have all the meaning with a little 'm' that you want but, really, when all is said and done if there is no meaning in life with a capital 'M' (eternal meaning) then, really, ultimately, life is meaningless.

Really? Two questions, why should life have a meaning at all? Even if it did, how can you be so sure that the only way it has meaning is if you live forever?


Anyways, back to the OP. Death is not really sleep, sleep has various biological functions slowed down, death has all biological functions stopped. As for what death would be like, it is safe to assume that it would be like nothing. I don't mean you're standing in the middle of an infinite void, I literally mean nothing. Naturally that is but an educated guess with no way of being proven. Which segues nicely into Socraties's views on death, essentially he said this:
You know nothing about death, so how can you fear it? To fear something you must know at least something about it, ergo, it is foolish to fear death.

I rather support that, I have no fear of death, except, to be honest, the religious one. Not only does some self-appointed judge get to decide my fate for the rest of eternity (Something that would quickly be banned here on earth), but he's allowed to use unreasonable punishment, if I steal $20 and never pray for forgiveness I get an eternity in hell, what fun. Better still, if I simply say that there isn't enough evidence to support the idea of his existance I get an eternity in hell, no matter how well I behave. Then, it gets better, if I've never even heard of him I go to hell. If, for some reason, I do accept him then I get to have the knowledge, for all eternity, that everything I did was part of a plan, and, as such, I didn't do anything of my own free will. Personally, that really, really scares me.

I sorta have this little theory....well a friend of mines theory, but anyway here goes.
Have you ever fallen asleep for about 10 minutes or so... and had a dream
that felt like an hour? Or fallen asleep for an hour and had a dream that felt
like 10 minutes? Of course.... It is known that the human brain still has a minor
state of life up two a couple of hours after death(or so im told). So perhaps, in
those couple hours your subconcious creates a dream, and tries to make that
dream last as long as it can to further keep life until it eventually dies.

I dont know, just a little possibility.

Originally Posted by Ville616

I sorta have this little theory....well a friend of mines theory, but anyway here goes.
Have you ever fallen asleep for about 10 minutes or so... and had a dream
that felt like an hour? Or fallen asleep for an hour and had a dream that felt
like 10 minutes? Of course.... It is known that the human brain still has a minor
state of life up two a couple of hours after death(or so im told). So perhaps, in
those couple hours your subconcious creates a dream, and tries to make that
dream last as long as it can to further keep life until it eventually dies.

I dont know, just a little possibility.

The human brain starts dying 4 minutes after it's gotten oxygen, 6 minutes means that a person has irreparable brain damage, 7 is really, really bad, and by 8 it won't work again. I can safely say that your brain stops working almost immediatly after you die, not a few hours later.

I mean its just...what if you died tommarro...what then?

If I died tomorrow, I would be in Heaven with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

I don't want to beleive that death is the ultimate end. Because if it was, then everything would be for nothing.

Originally Posted by Wolfen

I don't want to beleive that death is the ultimate end. Because if it was, then everything would be for nothing.

By saying that, you would say that life is nothing, just because there's nothing after life doesnt mean life itself is for nothing.

To quote Gandalf "Death is just another part of life, we all must take" or something like that XD
anywayz, i dont fear death, ill live life the fullest as i can, and tough i believe that everything will end at death, no afterlife of whatsoever, no one's sure, so i am anxious to experience what happens after death, if there's an experience at all.

Originally Posted by Wolfen

I don't want to beleive that death is the ultimate end. Because if it was, then everything would be for nothing.

I see this parroted a lot, why would everything be for nothing? You help people, you change some part of the universe, how is that nothing?

You help people, you change some part of the universe, how is that nothing?

Because it's nothing. Once you're dead, everything you did was meaningless. You probably don't even exist to understand what you did, or to enjoy or remember enjoying what you did or wanted to do. It's just... over... and that's the end.

Originally Posted by D3PyroGS

Because it's nothing. Once you're dead, everything you did was meaningless. You probably don't even exist to understand what you did, or to enjoy or remember enjoying what you did or wanted to do. It's just... over... and that's the end.

Others survive, others remember, you've altered the shape of something in the universe, that'll survive until the eventual heat-death of the universe. Besides, why does it matter if life has no point? Why must something have meaning? What is the point of background microwave radiation in space? What is the point of Venus?

Besides, would you really like an eternity of thinking of what could've been, or of basking in the ultimate glory of your achievments? That sounds, at best, incredibly vain.