BEER! AND DRIVING!

Yeah, that got your attention didn't it?

Anyways, I was thinking, as I often do, about the problems with alcohol in the US. Teens drink it freely, and no one seems to have a solution. Now, I'm not saying I have one, but the problem is that we think it's so bad, and I don't get that part of Americans. Or, at least, the part of America that makes these rules.

It's one of the main reasons that I love Europe, where you can drink from sixteen onwards. The trade off is that you can't drive until you turn eighteen, a system that I in fact prefer. I think Europe's on a better track on dealing with teenage drinking. The solution they have created has allowed teens to drink, with less threats that arise here, when you can get a lisence at sixteen, but cannot drink until twenty-one.

My question: which system do you prefer? I, as stated above, like the European approach, being a drinker when I go to Greece. I was curious however to see which people enjoy.

Originally Posted by Power Shot

Yeah, that got your attention didn't it?

Anyways, I was thinking, as I often do, about the problems with alcohol in the US. Teens drink it freely, and no one seems to have a solution. Now, I'm not saying I have one, but the problem is that we think it's so bad, and I don't get that part of Americans. Or, at least, the part of America that makes these rules.

Well, see, no matter what the rules are, the people who break them are going to break them regardless of how well they're constructed. The irresponsible people will still be irresponsible--those who would drink and drive will still drink and drive.

I won't lie, Australia does has a teenage alcohol problem. Any change to our current system (Learners at 16 1/2-liscence at 17 and drinking at 18) probably won't stop the problem. What however is needed is to teach resposible drinking habits, responsible driving habits and to teach never to let those to overlap. Perhaps thats just what's different baout europe in this case.

I won't lie either, I think Americas system is better because you have three years to prove you're a responsible driver. Personally I won't touch the stuff either way, it tastes like crap on my tounge, which I quickly proceded to wash off with water or whatever drink is the nearest availible. Also, where I live, a car ride straight north will allow you to drink at eighteen. I of course speak of Canada, nobody in my town does that though.... they're all idiots who smoke weed, drive drunk and get drunk underage at sporting events... and get away ith it even after stumbling into police. [/rambling]

Yeah...I agree with the American way. European..actually lets you drink from 16? Holy Heck. I would die if I didn't get my car at 16...I'm getting it at 15..but still.

The rules in Australia are that you can legally buy alcohol at 18 (I say "legally buy", because there really aren't that many people who haven't consumed it beforehand!) and you can also get your probationary license at 18. Kinda a bad combination, don't you think? It sort of encourages people to drink and drive. I consider myself a responsible person, but I will admit to having been driving after I've been drinking. Now, I'm not so stupid that I'd get blind drunk and then get into my car, but what I'm saying is that you know when you're alright to drive, if you haven't been drinking that much. I'm not proud of doing it though.

It's also illegal while you are on your P plates here in Australia to register as having any alcohol in your system (you have your P plates - or probationary license - for three years before you get your full license). I don't know what the penalty is though. It's a good system, because then you're not thinking, "oh I'll be alright with one drink". You know that you really shouldn't have any alcohol if you're going to drive. After you get your full license, the limit is 0.05, if I'm not mistaken.

I personally like Englands way(I am American). Drinking at 16 lets you expirience it before you drive, and you can know the affects of what it can do to you. But drinking at 21 will make you want to try it well before the age, and will have underage drinking up the arse, IMO.

Exactly. 2 Dope said it perfectly. Because the American system denies you something for so long, you start to wonder, then because you can already drive...

You get the idea. In Europe, you pretty much get it out of your system before it gets into your system, that need to drink. THEN you can go and drive because you know all about alcohol, because you really know nothing until you've finished with that phase.

Originally Posted by MoonPhoenix

The rules in Australia are that you can legally buy alcohol at 18 (I say "legally buy", because there really aren't that many people who haven't consumed it beforehand!) and you can also get your probationary license at 18. Kinda a bad combination, don't you think? It sort of encourages people to drink and drive. I consider myself a responsible person, but I will admit to having been driving after I've been drinking. Now, I'm not so stupid that I'd get blind drunk and then get into my car, but what I'm saying is that you know when you're alright to drive, if you haven't been drinking that much. I'm not proud of doing it though.

Actually in most states you can get your probationary license at 17. I think its just in nsw or vic or something something where you don't get it till you're 18.
I think the situation with alcohol and teenagers is roughly the same anywhere you go, regardless of the country or laws. I don't really think its a problem, its something kids do, always have, always will. Then they grow up and change their drinking habits. Drink driving is a problem I guess, but i'd say that doesnt have much to do with laws and views on alcohol as it does with teenagers and people in general just being dumb.

Originally Posted by MoonPhoenix

Now, I'm not so stupid that I'd get blind drunk and then get into my car, but what I'm saying is that you know when you're alright to drive, if you haven't been drinking that much.

Sounds like famous last words.

I don't know if there really is a solution to the drink driving problem; I don't believe it has much to do with what age one can drink and at what age one can drive. It has more to do with being irresponsible and being an idiot. And unfortunately, idiots are idiots wherever you are. If the problem was connected to what age you can get your licence and what age you can drink, then there wouldn't be so many older people (meaning older than 21, say) who drink and drive. The higher numbers of young people practicing this irresponsible activity though might have more to do with an invincibility complex; the belief that nothing bad will happen to them.

If I had to choose between one of the systems, I'd probably go with the one Australia has at the moment, as Fireball has mentioned. Plus, as MoonPhoenix mentioned, drivers on their probationary licence cannot have any alcohol in their system at all. That probationary period lasts three years. If you do get caught with alcohol in your system and you're only on your Ps then you get a fine and lose points off your licence - but there are things worse than that that could happen if you drink and drive.

To end, I shall quote an advertising campaign that ran in Australia quite a number of years ago to crack down on drink driving.

If you drink and drive, you're a bloody idiot.

Originally Posted by 2 Dope

I personally like Englands way(I am American). Drinking at 16 lets you expirience it before you drive, and you can know the affects of what it can do to you. But drinking at 21 will make you want to try it well before the age, and will have underage drinking up the arse, IMO.

In England, you have to be 18 to drink.

Fact: No one should enter a car with the intention to drive it when they've had even the smallest drop of alcohol.

Perhaps a complete overstatement, because we all know that's basically never the case. However, even people who can handle a few drinks would be surprised at a difference in judgement.

Example - I remember when I was learning, I took lessons on Saturday mornings, usually after a night on the piss. The decline of concentration and awareness was unbelievable. True, alcohol effects differ based on the individual, but for all of the concentration and constant checking your surroundings when in a car an accident can happen in an instant.

It's fairly lax to assume that any legal system regarding alcohol cannot be exploited. Britain has just as bad an underage drinking problem as the next country. It's basic psychology - legally retail a common drug but putting it on an age restriction will just arouse curiosity and exaggerate effects. Also, for a younger person to be in possesion of something deemed illegal for them just brings in the cool factor. We've all been there and we've all at one point cracked under peer pressure.

~ Adhamh.

Well, From the sounds of it, the European sounds much better. I am a drinker myself, illegally yes. Oh well, deal with it. It is quiet a nasty, addicting habit. Although I think it shouldn't be possible for us to have it, I'd rather not drink and live, especially missing somthing like a car crash or somthing.

I support eliminating the drinking age alltogether. As far as I know (maybe someone can give us some studies), they have done nothing to actually prevent teen drinking - they only make it more dangerous. If I drive to a party and get drunk, I'd probably want to drive back regardless of the risks, because if I get a ride, people will know I was drinking, and I'd get punished. People just don't think straight when they're drunk. If it's legal, people would have much less of a problem with leaving their car at someone else's house and getting a ride home.

In montreal, where I live, the drinking age is 18, although people will sell it to teens as young as 13 sometimes. If you go a restaurant, they will always serve wine to minors. The laws are slack, and I think it's a good thing. Of course, we have great public transportation, so nobody worries about drunk driving. Anyway, we generally start drinking with our parents, and learn our limits, and get over that initial "rebellious" appeal of alcohol quite early on. From my experience in Virginia, people weren't even aware of such a thing as "casual drinking." When people get a chance to drink, they drink way too much. (It's also all they talk about for the next week).

Setting the drinking age at 21, in my opinion, is just stupid. If people want to drink, they'll drink, and no law is going to stop them. Even then, people see 21 as a rite of passage now, and go way out of their limits once they reach it.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter

Setting the drinking age at 21, in my opinion, is just stupid. If people want to drink, they'll drink, and no law is going to stop them. Even then, people see 21 as a rite of passage now, and go way out of their limits once they reach it.

Mad Hatter - what a suitable name.

You do realise the health risks of alcohol abuse? Especially to younger people, whose bodies haven't fully developed and would be more susceptible to illness caused by drinking.

~ Adhamh.

Originally Posted by Adhamh

Mad Hatter - what a suitable name.

I don't know about that. The real Mad Hatter only advocates drinking tea.

You do realise the health risks of alcohol abuse? Especially to younger people, whose bodies haven't fully developed and would be more susceptible to illness caused by drinking.

Yes, I do realize the health risks of alcohol abuse. But if you read the rest of my post, you'd realize what I'm arguing - that eliminating a drinking age would discourage both alcohol abuse and drunk driving. A glass of wine with your parents is not going to harm you, and I think that's how alcohol should be introduced. We need to teach people how to drink responsibly - if you just teach them not to drink, they won't listen. Please reread my post, because you missed my point entirely. If you disagree, tell me what, specifically, you disagree with. Don't just tell me alcohol abuse is bad - I doubt anyone here thinks otherwise.

I totally disagree with the 21 drinking age in America. An 18 year old can join the military, get his legs blown off and he can't have a beer? Something is wrong when he is old enough to put his life on the line but he can't have a drink. I personaly think that there should not be a drinking age. Parents should be held accountable for their kids consumption. I use alcohol as medicine and I plan to teach my children the same thing. To many peop