English Patriotism

"St Patrick's Day is a worldwide excuse for a party. On St David's Day most of Wales is garlanded in daffodils, and many Scots have haggis and ceilidhs to mark St Andrew's Day. So what do the English do for St George?"

Not enough. Many events are planned every year yet I personally think that the grey weather is not a justifable reason for not celebrating. Some people with a passion for their country (like myself) fly Saint George's flag high and proud all year round, but it's really not enough.

In England St. George's Day is not a public holiday.

Some people in England have been warned by the police to take down the English flag. People flying the English flag have been called "Nazis" and other offensive names.

Remember I'm talking ENGLISH not BRITISH. That difference isn't even seen on these very forums. Back when you could select your country's flag, the Scottish flag (St. Andrew's cross I believe) was selectable but not Saint George's Flag or the Welsh flag and at heart we are separate countries.

Scottish and Welsh people are usually more specifically mentioned when it comes to their nationallity, whilst English people are usually refered to as British.

Is this really fair?

Discuss

"The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest." ~ Flanders & Swann (Full Lyrics here. I actually reccomend you read all of it, it's quite a funny song, and, despite being about 50 years old, sums up your feelings almost perfectly.)

Unfortunatly, being from the other side of the Atlantic, and more Scotch then English anyways, I don't have a lot to say about this, asside from the fact that it's part of a larger movement that, although it exists, isn't quite as bad as many think. Being politicaly correct tends to now mean that the bigger a nation/ethnic group/etc. Was, the more contempt it's to be treated with now, a sort of social 'karma'.

"It's the same old story,
England's glory.
Claiming back the Union Jack
My arse!" - Edwyn Collins, 'Keep On Burning', 1997. He is Scottish by the way *ahem*

I agree with the view it's a kind-of social 'karma' type thing in that England has always the most dominant country, with the Scottish, the Irish and to a lesser extent the Welsh have always been supressed by England. Now that England have built their own little 'empire', the United Kingdom, they've got to deal with being part of a group rather than single. However, now Scotland, Ireland and (again) to a lesser extent the Welsh have become more independent.

I think it's a compliment to call the English 'British'. Britain is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Who do "foreign" countries think of when they think of Britain? The English I think it's unfair to call us all "Spiffing old chaps", but that comes with stereotypes. Everyone has one of everyone else. I'm not an English patriot at all, to be honest, and I am English. I live in England, I know what England's like

Saying that, I do think St. George's Day should be a national holiday. Since other countries have their own Annual Patriotism Day. It's only fair.

If the English want recognition they should become their own country.

I really can't see any differnce between an English person and a welsh person. Its the same country, just a differnt region.

Whats the big deal anyway? Your all British! Anyway, isn't the Royal Family English?

Originally Posted by Jordan L

Now that England have built their own little 'empire', the United Kingdom, they've got to deal with being part of a group rather than single.

You're forgetting something, Jordan - England hasn't been counted alone for centuries. Remember the British Empire that covered a third of the known world?

Originally Posted by ChrisHoulihan

If the English want recognition they should become their own country.

I do believe we tried that once, and the rest of the world didn't like it very much - probably because we conquered a lot of it.

Originally Posted by ChrisHoulihan

I really can't see any differnce between an English person and a welsh person. Its the same country, just a differnt region.

Technically. However, that's exactly the same as saying there's no difference between someone from Texas and someone from New York. Not a mistake I think you'd be likely to make.

Originally Posted by ChrisHoulihan

Whats the big deal anyway? Your all British! Anyway, isn't the Royal Family English?

Actually, I believe the Royal Family was originally German. Don't ask me how.

Anyways. As for St. George's Day, I don't even know when it is (I never did pay much attention to the calender), so I can't really say anything about that. But an extra public holiday is always a good thing. ^_^

Originally Posted by Memory Chain

"St Patrick's Day is a worldwide excuse for a party. On St David's Day most of Wales is garlanded in daffodils, and many Scots have haggis and ceilidhs to mark St Andrew's Day. So what do the English do for St George?"

Not enough. Many events are planned every year yet I personally think that the grey weather is not a justifable reason for not celebrating. Some people with a passion for their country (like myself) fly Saint George's flag high and proud all year round, but it's really not enough.

In England St. George's Day is not a public holiday.

Some people in England have been warned by the police to take down the English flag. People flying the English flag have been called "Nazis" and other offensive names.
Remember I'm talking ENGLISH not BRITISH. That difference isn't even seen on these very forums. Back when you could select your country's flag, the Scottish flag (St. Andrew's cross I believe) was selectable but not Saint George's Flag or the Welsh flag and at heart we are separate countries.

Scottish and Welsh people are usually more specifically mentioned when it comes to their nationallity, whilst English people are usually refered to as British.

Is this really fair?

Discuss

While I'm an American I can sort of relate to your idea here. I live in one of the southern states that rebelled against the Lincoln Administration during the early 1860s. Even now after 141 years after the war was lost, many Southerners, including myself feel a strong sense of patriotism to the Confederacy. Many for the right reasons and others regrettably for misguided racist views. It is the latter that has drawn so much negative attention to the Confederate Battle Flag and for that reason, the flag has become offensive to certain members of our society. I take great pride in the flag because of the bravery of the men who carried it into battle just as I am sure you have great pride in St. George's Cross.

Originally Posted by ChrisHoulihan

If the English want recognition they should become their own country.

I really can't see any differnce between an English person and a welsh person. Its the same country, just a differnt region.

Whats the big deal anyway? Your all British! Anyway, isn't the Royal Family English?

Ugh, this really annoys me.

You can't see any difference between a Welshman, Scotsman and Englishman? How about the cultural, historical, and language differences?

While you're at it, why don't you lump Europeans together, or any former commonwealth country.

Originally Posted by Strong Hammer

While I'm an American I can sort of relate to your idea here. I live in one of the southern states that rebelled against the Lincoln Administration during the early 1860s. Even now after 141 years after the war was lost, many Southerners, including myself feel a strong sense of patriotism to the Confederacy. Many for the right reasons and others regrettably for misguided views. It is the latter that has drawn so much negative attention to the Confederate Battle Flag and for that reason, the flag has become offensive to certain members of our society. I take great pride in the flag because of the bravery of the men who carried it into battle just as I am sure you have great pride in St. George's Cross.

Admittedly, when I see that flag or anyone with it I do become angry. That flag represents a time when the country was divided, I don't see any "right reasons" to be patriotic for a now "dead" country. Heck, it only lasted for how many years? Doesn't seem like it was evne a country to me, but a huge organized group of rebels.

Anywho, can you please explain to me any positive reasons for having that flag?

The old Confederate Flag was a sybol of a country that the majority voters from the Northern states almost forced into existance, then beat out of existance. Besides that, many of the South's war heroes were some of the most brilliant tacticians and leaders of the time, allowing the extremely outnumbered and out-supplied South to hold it's own against the North. Read about Lee and Jackson and tell me that they weren't great men. THAT is the positive side of the Confederate flag. Those men were loyal to their states, not their country, someting the modern U.S. has lost.

As to the actual reason for the tread, it's great that you want to be a patriot. England has just as much right to a day as the others do, and just as much right to flying their flag as well. It's completely your right if it's theirs, so why the hell not? And the royal family is Germa because they were invaded by several Germanic tribes from Eastern Europe and taken over for a brief time(I think).

Originally Posted by Hostis of Angelus

As to the actual reason for the tread, it's great that you want to be a patriot. England has just as much right to a day as the others do, and just as much right to flying their flag as well. It's completely your right if it's theirs, so why the hell not? And the royal family is Germa because they were invaded by several Germanic tribes from Eastern Europe and taken over for a brief time(I think).

By "they", do you mean England or where the Royal Family used to live? If you mean England, I think you'll find that you're wrong - England hasn't been conquered since 1066. Unless you count the Civil War, but you shouldn't because we won that one, too.

Queen Victoria's husband, Prince Albert was German, but I don't think he was related to the Winsor family.

Originally Posted by KING_LIZALFOS

Admittedly, when I see that flag or anyone with it I do become angry. That flag represents a time when the country was divided, I don't see any "right reasons" to be patriotic for a now "dead" country. Heck, it only lasted for how many years? Doesn't seem like it was evne a country to me, but a huge organized group of rebels.

Anywho, can you please explain to me any positive reasons for having that flag?

It was a dark time for the U.S. I admit that. The positive thing about the C.S.A. flag is the men who carried it into battle. A vast majority of them did not have slaves and would never be able to afford one. These men fought to protect their homes and the right of the states (who had to unanamously agree to sign the Declaration of Independence) to pull out when the nation was no longer considerate of them. Slavery was an evil thing. The highest Confederate commanders acknowlegded this and freed their slaves before the war even started. The Northern States did not even offer any alternatives. This is why I support the C.S.A. While they were rebels, they were incredibly brave men and I honor the flag in honor of them.

Originally Posted by Tiroth

Technically. However, that's exactly the same as saying there's no difference between someone from Texas and someone from New York. Not a mistake I think you'd be likely to make.

duuuuh, Texas is not a part of Great Britian.

But serously, Texas and New York are independent states, Wales and England are provinces, theres a difference.

Originally Posted by Vega

Ugh, this really annoys me.

You can't see any difference between a Welshman, Scotsman and Englishman? How about the cultural, historical, and language differences?

While you're at it, why don't you lump Europeans together, or any former commonwealth country.

Do people in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland speak a different language from the English? I don't lump europeans together, I lump the British together, becuase they are all english to me.

And I think you got that last sentance wrong, most European countries were not former commonwealth countries. Canada is a commonwealth country, and I am proud to say that the Canadian head of state is none other than Queen Liz 2.

Originally Posted by ChrisHoulihan

duuuuh, Texas is not a part of Great Britian.

Now you're just being dense. I'm pretty certain you know what I meant, so stop it.

Originally Posted by ChrisHoulihan

But serously, Texas and New York are independent states, Wales and England are provinces, theres a difference.

Not really, no. It's pretty much exactly the same thing, just with less physical distance between them.

Do people in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland speak a different language from the English? I don't lump europeans together, I lump the British together, becuase they are all english to me.

Go and say that to a Scot or Irishman. I'm pretty sure they'd be perfectly happen to correct you.

EDIT: Incidentally, they did used to speak a different language to us - I think it's called Gaelic. Try asking SeDe about it, because she's likely to know more than me.

They do speak different languages sometimes. Welsh use..welsh. I know the others used their own languages sometimes too...