Vegetarianism

I am a Christian. I do not believe eating meat is wrong. There are, however, people, even some Christians, who believe it is wrong, according to eithics, morality, the Bible, etc.

If you are a vegetarian (or vegan, for that matter), why do you believe what you believe? Do you think your cause is important enough to tell everyone else not to eat anything that once lived? And finally, does PETA go too far in what they say and do?

Yeah I am against vegetarianism. Well I guess I'm fine with vegitarians as long as they don't get mad at anyone else for eating meat.

I think it is stupid to try to say that animals should have human rights. I have heard people talking about feedlots full of cattle and comparing it to the Holocaust. This really gets me mad, to even compare farming to a horrible thing like the Holocaust.

I am against animal abuse and killing that does not have a purpose. But if it's for the better of humanity's health and happiness, then go for it.

Originally Posted by ChrisHoulihan

Yeah I am against vegetarianism. Well I guess I'm fine with vegitarians as long as they don't get mad at anyone else for eating meat.

I think it is stupid to try to say that animals should have human rights. I have heard people talking about feedlots full of cattle and comparing it to the Holocaust. This really gets me mad, to even compare farming to a horrible thing like the Holocaust.

I am against animal abuse and killing that does not have a purpose. But if it's for the better of humanity's health and happiness, then go for it.

I agree with ChrisHoulihan. Vegetarians have the respected right to refuse to eat the processed remains of a dead organism that once shared this same Earth. I think that in no way should man be punished for killing other animals. Do sharks go to hell if they survive? That doesn't make any sense. Some animals absolutely do not eat meat (carnivores). That's how their instincts work. It is in no way their fault. No living thing on Earth should be punished for something that is its fault. Using that reasoning, it should be justfied to eat meat. Therefore, humans should be able to eat meat.

I am Vegan -- this means that I strive not to eat or to use any animal products whatsoever. This means, of course, not eating meat, dairy, eggs, or other animal byproducts, nor wearing leather or silk.

My main concern which led me to this decision was the environmental destruction associated with farming. Agriculture is directly responsible for deforestation, which is a leading cause of global climate change, desertification due to the grazing of cattle, and eutrophication of ponds and lakes from the runoff of animal waste and chemical fertilizers into the water. These are all compounded by the prevalence of high-density factory farming, which incidentally, also sees absolutely disgusting treatment of the animals involved.

Animal rights also factor into the equation. As far as I'm concerned, before doing anything, especially something potentially harmful, to another sentient being, there should be demonstrated consent. If you can convince me that the fish is fine with its treatment and its inevitable death, I'll gladly eat it. Until then, no dice. There are more ways in which animals tend to be despicably treated than I could possibly name in this space.

Another factor of the equation is also health. There is much evidence that a vegan diet is among the healthiest possible. (A macrobiotic diet heavy in fish is probably better, but there are enough reasons to avoid fish that I'm content with veganism).

My main concern which led me to this decision was the environmental destruction associated with farming. Agriculture is directly responsible for deforestation, which is a leading cause of global climate change,...

Those sound to me like like reasons not to support agriculture.

As far as I'm concerned, before doing anything, especially something potentially harmful, to another sentient being, there should be demonstrated consent. If you can convince me that the fish is fine with its treatment and its inevitable death, I'll gladly eat it. Until then, no dice.

Once an animal is dead, it's over. As long as it is killed quickly, it will feel no pain. I see no reason not to kill animals for food (as I don't see cows/chickens going extinct any time soon), as long as it's not some torturous death. Even then, they are just animals and ultimately have no conscious - no soul. Dare I say it doesn't matter as long as you are not being purposefully cruel to the animal? Of course I would never slowly and painfully kill (or torture, for that matter) a dog, cat, or any other "pet" animal, but then again, they are still animals and it is probably only because we are so attached to these kinds of animals that we find it offensive.

Another factor of the equation is also health. There is much evidence that a vegan diet is among the healthiest possible.

Meat eaters can be just as healthy as vegetarians - in fact, it takes more to get the same amount of nutrients in a vegan diet as it does a meat-based diet. Of course, vegetarians don't have to worry about getting fat off McDonald's Big Macs, but overeating and making unhealthy choices is always an individual's fault. I am very healthy. I eat a balanced diet of meat, fruit, vegetables, grains, etc. Becoming a vegetarian/vegan/fruitarian would not make me one bit healthier or happier.

I am not trying to convince you in any way to stop being a vegan. I see no problem with people eating only vegetables or organic substances. I only get disturbed when others try to convince me that I'm sinning or doing animals much injustice when I eat hamburgers or chicken wings. Thank you for not ramming your idea down my throat, as many people often do.

Originally Posted by Trico

Another factor of the equation is also health. There is much evidence that a vegan diet is among the healthiest possible. (A macrobiotic diet heavy in fish is probably better, but there are enough reasons to avoid fish that I'm content with veganism).

Don't you find it hard to get your essential amino acids? I would find it such a bother to have to eat all of the beans and lentils it takes to get the right proteins.

The Inuit people of northern Nunavut have been living off of an almost 100% meat diet for hundreds of years, and they seem prety healthy to me.

But I do agree, I have a friend who is a vegan and It seems like a prety healthy diet.

Originally Posted by Trico

Animal rights also factor into the equation. As far as I'm concerned, before doing anything, especially something potentially harmful, to another sentient being, there should be demonstrated consent. If you can convince me that the fish is fine with its treatment and its inevitable death, I'll gladly eat it. Until then, no dice. There are more ways in which animals tend to be despicably treated than I could possibly name in this space.

I would say that fish and many other sentient beings(animals) are hardly able to communicate consent at being consumed for food.

What if I being a sentient being myself came up to you and told you I wanted to be eaten, would you eat me? I think that sentient beings able to communicate with us should not be eaten. But lesser evolved animals are fair game for food.

I got a question. Do you eat clams? becuase I don't think many will claim claims them to be sentient beings, since they don't have brains, and yet they are animals.

Now before I get into this, let it be known that I am eating a very tasty roast beef sandwich.

The question has to be asked: What gives you the right to meaninglessly kill ANYTHING? For those of you who may hold some sort of moral system that involves not killing things, this may be a tricky question. Killing in self defense is generally considered acceptable, so is killing for food. Human are all about killing for food. Hell, we've been eating meat for thousands of years. But the thing is now, after said thousands of years, for those of us living in the upper-middle class of Western society, meat is an option, no longer a necessity. We make a choice. We choose. We're no longer killing animals to further our own existence, but merely because we've grown accustomed to eating tasty meat.

This choice is crucial. If you don't have to kill something, then why kill it at all? Some people try to snake past the issue by claiming that animals are soulless or lack consciousness or whatever, but that's almost irrelevent, because, mental capacities aside, they are still living, animate things (Oh, and by the way, many animals, especially the ones we eat, DO feel, think, and process information, just to a lesser degree). Some may try to establish humanity's superiority over 'lesser' creatures, but even that is debatable. In the end, we're left with doubt over ethical status of animals, and we're left with a choice.

We're back to that choice. If you're not entirely sure about something that will result in the death of another, you probably shouldn't do it.

Oh, and all those other things that Trico had to say were totally legitimate too.

Originally Posted by D3PyroGS

Those sound to me like like reasons not to support agriculture.

Exactly -- the vast majority of plant-based agriculture exists only to support the meat industry.

Once an animal is dead, it's over. As long as it is killed quickly, it will feel no pain. I see no reason not to kill animals for food (as I don't see cows/chickens going extinct any time soon), as long as it's not some torturous death. Even then, they are just animals and ultimately have no conscious - no soul. Dare I say it doesn't matter as long as you are not being purposefully cruel to the animal? Of course I would never slowly and painfully kill (or torture, for that matter) a dog, cat, or any other "pet" animal, but then again, they are still animals and it is probably only because we are so attached to these kinds of animals that we find it offensive.

Suppose an atheistic perspective, in which you don't believe that humans have a soul. Does that justify murder of humans? I stand by my insistence upon consent.

I am not trying to convince you in any way to stop being a vegan. I see no problem with people eating only vegetables or organic substances. I only get disturbed when others try to convince me that I'm sinning or doing animals much injustice when I eat hamburgers or chicken wings. Thank you for not ramming your idea down my throat, as many people often do.

In return, I thank you for respecting my own choice. I by no means to say that my way is the only way, but I do wish to share my reasoning so that people might better understand it.

What if I being a sentient being myself came up to you and told you I wanted to be eaten, would you eat me? I think that sentient beings able to communicate with us should not be eaten. But lesser evolved animals are fair game for food.

If I am convinced that a person is fully consenting to being cannibalised, I have no moralistic objection. That doesn't mean I'm comfortable with it, but I would not feel obliged to intervene.

As far as Christianity is concerned, there isn't much against or for vegetarians. In my opinion... WHO THE HELL CARES WHAT YOU EAT?! As long as you don't eat a live person or that kind of stuff it's fine. Oh yes, I killed a cow when I ate a roast beef sandwich right? Here's something interesting, the cow was already dead. The roast beef was already packaged. I didn't kill anything, I just bought it and ate it.

If vegetarians want to eat veggies fine, the Bible itself states that a diet of veggies and water is a great diet(read about Daniel) so good for them(or you, if you are one), you're living a lot healthier than I think I could handle being. For me, I prefer to eat some meat. I also eat a lot of bread, vegetables, rice, etc. etc. I just like to eat that stuff...

As far as animal rights go, everyone says you should be humane to animals, but humane originates from human. I'm not going to treat a fish, cow, or chicken like a human. It has been proven by scientists that the animals we use for food are some of the most dim-witted. If someone killed and ate a blue jay or crow I would have a problem with it(besides it being a waste), because they are the third smarted beings on the planet, right below dolphins. You never hear people talk about the fact that a cow is barely aware of its own existance, is not afraid to die, and rarely has a problem when it is milked. Chickens appear to be afraid for their lives, but in reality they are afraid to be chased by something that smells scary to them. Fish just don't know what's wrong, because if something big moves next to them they probably contemplate being eated by a shark. The animals we use for food just don't care. If abortion and euthenasia are justified, so is eating meat.

Suppose an atheistic perspective, in which you don't believe that humans have a soul. Does that justify murder of humans? I stand by my insistence upon consent.

Hmmm... it depends who you ask, but if I was an atheist, consistent in my beliefs (that there can be no morals because there is no moral-definer), then I would say no, murdering is not wrong, therefore killing animals, for food or for fun, is neither wrong.

Vegan's are totally cool with me, vegetarians also.

I guess you can't say that it would be alright to eat an animal that died of natural causes, this would mean the meat would be no good, I think I will go vegetarian to an extent, I will eat fish, I love fish, so thats my choice, I also like catching my fish to eat.

As far as animal rights go, everyone says you should be humane to animals, but humane originates from human. I'm not going to treat a fish, cow, or chicken like a human.

Humane is just a word, though. Yes, it stems from human, but that doesn't mean that it should only apply to humans. After all, one can say that animals should be treated kindly, a non-specific word in terms of species. Additionally, treating a cow humanely and treating a cow like a human are two completely separate ideas.

I'm not actually a vegetarian, though I'm headed that way, and I'm very picky about what I'll eat. The thing is, I have no ethical issue with the eating of meat in itself. However, the processes that are currently most wide spread in the meat industry often involve extremely cruel treatment which essentially amounts to torture. Yes, these are not the most intelligent animals in existence, but one has to consider, does that matter? Is it worse to hurt an Einstein than it is to hurt the average person? Does intelligence have any effect on a creature's capacity to suffer? Beause, that's the only relevent attribute in a decision about how to treat an animal.

And, when I say 'badly treated,' I don't mean just the fact that they are killed - these animals live their entire lives in pain. Pigs are kept in pens so small they can't sit, ever. Because of that they develop bone diseases in their legs and feet. They have children, who are able to suckle through bars, but can't have any other natural interaction with the mother. The children are taken away after a few days, the pig is artificially inseminated again, and so the cycle continues. I refuse to support this continual process by buying pig meat. Chicken meat and, in America, cow meat, are produced in similar circumstances.

but if I was an atheist, consistent in my beliefs (that there can be no morals because there is no moral-definer), then I would say no, murdering is not wrong, therefore killing animals, for food or for fun, is neither wrong.

Being an atheist does not necessarly mean being completely without morals. There is the possibility that there is an external moral code regardless of whether there is a God or not (after all, while some people claim that God creates morals [this is right because God says it is], there are others that believe God is also subject to a moral code [God endorses this because it is right]).

There is also the possibility of a subjective set of morals. It is perfectly consistent to believe that there is no God and to also believe that murder, or killing animals for fun, is wrong.

Hey i am fine with there choice, What they eat is none of there buisness.

but its when they start harrasing me for eating what i want. As soon as they start that, i wont be so nice. And if they do that, i will get a big sub full of meat or a big mac and eat it right infront of them. and laugh at them.

but yea, its cool what they believe in as long as they leave me alone.

Being an atheist does not necessarly mean being completely without morals. There is the possibility that there is an external moral code regardless of whether there is a God or not (after all, while some people claim that God creates morals [this is right because God says it is], there are others that believe God is also subject to a moral code [God endorses this because it is right]).

I can see no reason as an atheist to believe in any sort of morals. If I believe there is no God and we evolved from "slime," then I believe it would be fair to say that we are only molecules - though highly advanced life forms - and a concept of "right" and "wrong" are only manmade concepts. Where else would a moral code come from, except from God? I can see no reason for atheists to believe in any sort of "wrong" (that includes murder), so I can see even less reason to abstain from eating animals.

Personally I'm a vegetarian because that's what I think. I can stand the thought of eating something that was once living. BUT I don't care what other people eat. I think that is totally their choice. If they can stomach it good for them but I can't. I bet a lot of people would become vegetarians if they lived on a slaughtering farm like me.