The Atomic Bomb

The United States, with assistance from the United Kingdom and Canada, designed and built the bombs under the codename Manhattan Project; initially for use against Nazi Germany. The first nuclear device, called "Gadget," was tested in New Mexico on July 16, 1945. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were the second and third to be detonated and the only ones ever employed as weapons.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't the first time that the Allies had bombed Axis cities, nor the first time that such bombings had caused huge numbers of civilian casualties, nor the first time that such bombings were (or came to be) controversial. In Germany, the Allied firebombing of Dresden resulted in roughly 30,000 deaths.The March 1945 firebombing of Tokyo may have killed as many as 100,000 people. By August, about 60 Japanese cities had been destroyed through a massive aerial campaign, including large firebombing raids on the cities of Tokyo and Kobe.

Over 3½ years of direct U.S. involvement in World War II, approximately 400,000 American lives had been lost, roughly half of them incurred in the war against Japan. In the months prior to the bombings, the Battle of Okinawa resulted in an estimated 50–150,000 civilian deaths, 100–125,000 Japanese or Okinawan military or conscript deaths and over 72,000 American casualties. An invasion of Japan was expected to result in casualties many times greater than in Okinawa.

The decision to drop the bombs on Japan was made by U.S. President Harry S. Truman. His stated intention in ordering the bombings was to bring about a quick resolution of the war by inflicting destruction, and instilling fear of further destruction, that was sufficient to cause Japan to surrender. On July 26 Truman and other allied leaders issued The Potsdam Declaration outlining terms of surrender for Japan:

"...The might that now converges on Japan is immeasurably greater than that which, when applied to the resisting Nazis, necessarily laid waste to the lands, the industry and the method of life of the whole German people. The full application of our military power, backed by our resolve, will mean the inevitable and complete destruction of the Japanese armed forces and just as inevitably the utter devastation of the Japanese homeland..."

"...We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction."

The next day, Japanese papers reported that the declaration, the text of which had been broadcast and dropped on leaflets into Japan, had been rejected. The atomic bomb was still a highly guarded secret and not mentioned in the declaration.


The Target Committee at Los Alamos on May 10–11, 1945, recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets. The committee rejected the use of the weapon against a strictly military objective due to the chance of missing a small target not surrounded by a larger urban area. The psychological effects on Japan were of great importance to the committee members. They also agreed that the initial use of the weapon should be sufficiently spectacular for its importance to be internationally recognized. The committee felt Kyoto, as an intellectual center of Japan, had a population "better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon." Hiroshima was singled out due to its large size and the potential that the bomb would cause greater destruction.

On the morning of August 6, 1945, the United States Army Air Forces dropped the nuclear weapon "Little Boy" on the city of Hiroshima, Japan, followed three days later by the detonation of the "Fat Man" bomb over Nagasaki. The estimates of the combined death toll range from 100,000 to 220,000, with some estimates considerably higher when delayed deaths from radiation exposure are counted. More than 90% of the casualties were civilians.


Do you think that bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was worth it?

No. I don't think the grudge Japanese people have is worth it. Though, if they had sent out their little old ladies to fight the war, they probably would have kicked ass. Those old ladies are invincible.

Has anybody here been to Hiroshima and seen the Atomic Peace Dome, etc.?

I have and I have to admit that it was a pretty touching experience. Just being able to go through the massive memorial and feel/see the effect that the bomb had on things... it was crazy.

I've researched the issue a little in the past, but would not feel confidentin venturing an opinion.

EDIT: Btw, the 'Grave of the Fireflies' mentioned above is a reference to a famous movie from the production studio, Studio Ghibli.

In war, there's no such thing as a civilian. It's you or them, and don't even think they wouldn't have used anything like that against us if they had the chance.

Well as said above if they had the bombs im sure they wouldnt offer us a way out by surrendering. Japan proved this by bombing Pearl Harbor when we werent even in the war. if they had the power they would certinaly use it on the US and any other Allied country.

but i guess in times of war you just think of the best way of stoping it. Also they may have been civilians, but the odds are i bet most of them wouldnt mind grabbing a gun and fighting.

Originally Posted by Hazz

Do you think that bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was worth it?

Yes.

I, myself, am half-Japanese, although I'm still learning on my own time how to speak it. Regardless of whether or not you believe me, because there seem to be certain individuals (not necessarily here) that continue to put that down simply because it's their little fantasy for some unascertained reason, I've been to Tokyo and beyond that to visit family on my mother's side. Well, apart for the general American stereotyping and conformist distaste, the bombings aren't necessarily the focal points of their finger pointing. Sure, there's mention of it from the people I've talked to, and I've talked to one who absolutely despises America for those bombings, but is there a majority grudge? Nah.

The reason I say yes is because, considering predictions made by thinkers of the past within the United States, the Japanese people would have not surrendered - even the civillians. Honor, the oh-so-popular Asian stereotype, was a major factor for this; they would defend their country and, more specifically, their divine emperor with every bit of resource they could gather. There could have been MANY more casualties than done by the atomic bombs, although we'll never know for sure.

Do I condone upon future nuclear homicides? No. But if it's necessary, and INSANELY justified, I would have to accept it and hope that nations all over would certainly consider the repurcussions.

Originally Posted by Tre

Japan proved this by bombing Pearl Harbor when we werent even in the war.

They actually thought they managed to send a message to the United States Federal Government formally declaring war, but the message wasn't translated in time. So, in all reality, they didn't THINK they were launching a sneak-attack. And, using the term again, they thought sneak-attacks were dishonorable.

Well I don't think there is really a question of worth in this, how can you answer such a question. If you would ask the question was it right in dropping the bomb then I would say no, as was said 90% of the dead was civillians. I don't think the excuse that they bombed Pearl Harbour so who cares kind of attitude is correct, there is no excuse in the killing of people who are not even taking part in the war...it would be like the killing of civillians in Iraq.

Also, no offense to our American brothers and sisters here, but America wouldn't have been attacked if they didn't have an embargo on oil...Japan was forced to either lay quiet and slowly die without oil or they could attack America and hope that they would let up a bit. Obviously that was the death of them in the war, once they attacked they were goners for sure.

Oh and it wasn't an American, contrary to the belief, that built the atom bomb...it was an Italian scientist named Enrico Fermy who came up with the atomic pile.

Originally Posted by Sir Auron

Oh and it wasn't an American, contrary to the belief, that built the atom bomb...it was an Italian scientist named Enrico Fermy who came up with the atomic pile.

Are you sure, if I remember right it was Fermy that first starting researching it, but it was a whole team of scientists from around the world(Almost all from Europe). It is true thought that American scientists had pretty much nothing to do with the bomb, aside from Oppenheimer, there were no American scientists. Come to think of it Oppenheimer's parents were German immigrants, so truly no Americans were part of the research and creation of the bomb.

As for my belief on what should have happened, well for me I stick with what was written in history. There are too many what ifs and so on, what might have been. Yeah I dislike war but there is nothing to be done about what happened. The bombings in my mind were necessary to end the war.

Yes you can say civilians were killed but that is part of war and can never be avoided. If you going to worry about japanese civilians why don't you worry about how the Japanese actually treated their enemy civilians, Nanjing Massacre anyone. Yeah that is my point, the japanese killed far more civilians in there invasion of China then they lost in the bombings. So leave the civilian casualites out of it.

I stand by the fact I believe the bombings to be wrong, yet I find them necessary to bring a swift end on a Pacific war that looked like it would go on forever. Japan was desprate and willing to sacrafice anything to win, and America didn't want to lost any more men then they had to. My personel feeling is there were plenty of good reasons to bomb japan, if you would like me to site them I wrote a paper on it last year for school.

One last thing, my personal opinion was that Truman used the bomb to scare the Russians more than anything, he had reason to use the bomb, but I don't think two were necessary. Though I think his true motives were to get a jumpstart the Russians. After reading my post you're probably thinking wtf?, but that is only because I can find all the right reasons to bomb Japan and all the wrong ones as well. There are, like I said too many what ifs, and what we could have changed. But 60 years later we can look back and pick out each little bit, while back then it was a heat of the moment deal. It's much easier for us to look back now and challenge the decision making. Just be glad Hitler and the Nazis didn't make one, all hell would have broken loose.

Originally Posted by Abscido

In war, there's no such thing as a civilian. It's you or them, and don't even think they wouldn't have used anything like that against us if they had the chance.

I heard (From a freind, its not my fault if hes wrong) that germany was bloody close to creating the nuclear bomb, but they lost much research in a bombing, but if they hadnt been destroyed they wouldnt have hessitated. The Americans didnt so why should they.

but to answer your question the bombing was worth it in some ways, and in others it wasnt, the world saw first hand the devistation that it can cause to use such a weapon. And if the bombs werent dropped events like the cold war could have climaxed much higher. but in the same respect, they should have only dropped one nuke and to do something like drop a nuke is just moraly wrong(to me).

there is no way to justafy such an act, but with out it, where would we be today? *retorical question*

I don't like atomic bombs. They're really quite freightening when you think about it. They serve as proof that science can indeed go too far. The whole issue is almost hopeless in my opinion. Was it right to develop and use atomic bombs on Japan? No, but was there really any alternative? Atomic weaponry was going to come to fruition eventually, and if doesn't want to be at the mercy of other nations, then we must continue to develop new technology and deadlier weapons, moral or not.

Think about what could've happened if either the Soviet Union or the USA had not kept up with the other . . . this would've been an even worse situation. Everyone knows that nuclear war is futile, so staying even with your rival ensured that the weapons would never be used.

Today, every nation, including North Korea and Iran, knows that to use a nuclear weapon would be to end relations with most of the world community and face massive retaliation. The problematic thing is keeping W.M.D out of the hands of terrorists. It is for this reason that I will put up with Bush's war, as poorly executed and unjustified as I feel it was. W.M.D are truly scary, there is no defense, and keeping them out of the hands of people who would use them without a second thought is probably the number one priority of our defense strategy today. As bad as 9-11 was, it would be nothing compared to a nuclear strike. Such an attack would be an all-out epidemic. Rather than 3,000 deaths (I think), we'd be looking at hundreds of thousands, or even millions, along with nuclear fall out and whatnot. And, consider, if it were terrorists and not a nation that delivered such an attack, how the hell would we respond. You can't retailiate by using nuclear weapons. It is basically hopeless. Prevention is the only strategy.

Originally Posted by Brolik

Are you sure, if I remember right it was Fermy that first starting researching it, but it was a whole team of scientists from around the world(Almost all from Europe). It is true thought that American scientists had pretty much nothing to do with the bomb, aside from Oppenheimer, there were no American scientists. Come to think of it Oppenheimer's parents were German immigrants, so truly no Americans were part of the research and creation of the bomb.

While there were some superstar scientists from around the world working on the bomb, there was a huge team working on it at Los Alamos, mostly composed of Americans. Physicist Richard Feynman, for example, was one of the major scientists working on it. In fact, he's written a bunch of interesting and true stories about his stay at Los Alamos.

One thing he said is that the bomb was originally developed out of fear that Germany would develop an atomic bomb. They did not build it with the intention of dropping it on Hiroshima.

I don't think I can decide if it was worth dropping it or not. While I don't like the idea of melting the skin of millions of people and causing cancer many generations after the war, I have no way of knowing how many would have died if the US had used other methods.

Has anybody here been to Hiroshima and seen the Atomic Peace Dome, etc.?

I went there when I was young. It's pretty disturbing stuff.

I agree with Haruhiko's assessment.

Originally Posted by Sir Auron

Also, no offense to our American brothers and sisters here, but America wouldn't have been attacked if they didn't have an embargo on oil...Japan was forced to either lay quiet and slowly die without oil or they could attack America and hope that they would let up a bit. Obviously that was the death of them in the war, once they attacked they were goners for sure.

Ah, but America doesn't embargo a country for no reason. Do you know why the embargo was in place? Japan wasn't being a quiet little country minding its own business. Far from it. Japan was busily subjugating eastern Asia. I don't think using the embargo as a reason to fault America is very wise.

Originally Posted by Sir Auron

Also, no offense to our American brothers and sisters here, but America wouldn't have been attacked if they didn't have an embargo on oil...Japan was forced to either lay quiet and slowly die without oil or they could attack America and hope that they would let up a bit. Obviously that was the death of them in the war, once they attacked they were goners for sure.

Yes, and we put the embargo on them for a reason. Because of their occupation of China and other invasions in Asia.

I heard (From a freind, its not my fault if hes wrong) that germany was bloody close to creating the nuclear bomb, but they lost much research in a bombing, but if they hadnt been destroyed they wouldnt have hessitated. The Americans didnt so why should they.

True. The atom bomb was actually developed my many European immigrants who fled the Nazi's. Had men like Einstein stayed in Europe, the Germans may have had the bomb long before anyone.

Posted by Haze
Has anybody here been to Hiroshima and seen the Atomic Peace Dome, etc.?

I have been there. It's pretty touching, walking through the museum. I say the stains of the black rain. Read countless personal experiances. They had these manikins(sp?) of what the Japanese people looked like during the aftermath. I watched a Japanese boy ask his parents what they where. I couldn't understand what they said, but I could probably tell you what his dad said to him.

I got to visit the Peace dome and I also saw the Peace Plaza. It was where the the Paper Kranes where put for display. To bad some drunk ass burnt them down. During my trip to Japan, Hiroshima was my favorite place.

Posted by Abscido
Yes, and we put the embargo on them for a reason. Because of their occupation of China and other invasions in Asia.

And yet they still attacked us. I still can't believe that the military, at the end of the war, tried to ursupt the government and keep fighting. They had nothing left or any allies to ask for help. Iteresting to know that the military leaders where willing to disobeyed their emperor/deity.

Originally Posted by Sir Auron

I don't think the excuse that they bombed Pearl Harbour so who cares kind of attitude is correct, there is no excuse in the killing of people who are not even taking part in the war...it would be like the killing of civillians in Iraq.

Pearl Harbor was, in essence, a mere trifle to the overall devastation caused by Little Boy and Fat Man. Is using the "Pearl Harbor Excuse" justified? No. The Japanese attacked a military harbor, not a city littered with thousands upon thousands and innocents. But why do people seek the "Pearl Harbor Excuse" to justify the United States' action? Because it made them feel less evil.

That type of justification is hardly relevent. What was justified was the overall thought process of considering the terms of warfare that could have taken place had the American forces landed upon the beaches of Japan. Going back to my 'honor' reference, civillians were ready to fight to defend their country and more specifically their allegedly divine emperor. A destroyed city or ten with growing casualties wouldn't have deterred them. But a gigantic bomb dropped, annihilating everything within a certain radius in less than five minutes or so from the sky without having to set foot upon their homeland? Scary. Very.

And please don't compare past warfare with current events unless there's a direct lesson we can learn from the past. Civillians will always get themselves in the way, regardless of whether or not enemy forces go out of their way to try and avoid them.

Originally Posted by Sir Auron

Also, no offense to our American brothers and sisters here, but America wouldn't have been attacked if they didn't have an embargo on oil...Japan was forced to either lay quiet and slowly die without oil or they could attack America and hope that they would let up a bit. Obviously that was the death of them in the war, once they attacked they were goners for sure.

As Shinji deftly pointed out, the embargo was a result of open hostility to nations the United States had sworn to protect (albeit for economic purposes). Would you supply someone with weapons or even advice if they were going to use it against your friends? Well, unless you get a nice little kick out of watching fights. The United States knew that cutting their supplies off would probably hurt them, and that retaliation could be imminent.

Originally Posted by tornRed

And yet they still attacked us.

...I wonder why.

Originally Posted by tornRed

I still can't believe that the military, at the end of the war, tried to ursupt the government and keep fighting.

Think of it this way; Hypothetically speaking, Cuba uses its magical powers to take over the United States and installs a communist government in place of the democratic-republic. You think all 295,734,134+ of us will sit idly by?