What exactly is beyond the known Universe?

words are not variables. we have dictionaries for a reason.

I'm going to make your typical nazi reference. I'll define a nazi as anyone with the username "rock lee".

damn nazi.

see, it just doesn't work.

Oh but it works, according to mathematics. Sure everyone will not understand what you mean, but you explained it to me and defined the word nazi, so I'm a nazi....

I know it's stupid to define something randomly, let´s say GOD is a cat, Oh my God, GOD exists a lot. But please notice my definition is not random nor stupid.
I know you're not religious, so you have to try to prove He doesn't exist.... and trust me, even I (a christian) suppport you when you say there is no supernatural being (comes to my mind the picture of an old man sitting in a throne, WRONG!)...He's not supernatural, I stated he is nature itself and more... you know we live in a deterministic universe (things will happen according to the laws (not necesarily phisics), the true laws we have yet to discover), so I tell you the laws are GOD's will and the universe is part of his body, nothing can be out of Him. What I said is not opposed to the bible, sure it's not exactly in it, but the only thing you'll get there is GOD is the one Who IS (the only one Who IS I add). There you can also find the idea that everything is inside of Him, and that what happens is His will, so my ideas are not pointing towards the other direction... phisics and mathematics and all sciences, as we call them, are His tools, and the laws of the universe, His will and command, If something exists or happens is because He determined it to be that way.

If you don't want to personify GOD, then substitute Him and He with It, and welcome to atheism. I do believe GOD has personality and will of his own, but I also believe He is all I said before...and yes I have, I must say it (my favorite phrase)... AND MORE.


The most important point of what I say is that you cannot refuse the existence (or prove it) of something that you haven't defined in a clear way... I defined my GOD, you must accept He exists (the personality thing is the only tricky part, but I will do my best trying to prove it), define yours and we shall see...



Oh crap, I can't believe I'm a nazi... (lol)


Oh, and once again, we're getting off topic....oops.

for the record, I don't debate with nazis.

just kidding.

anyway, most of this is pointless. redefining god isn't going to prove his existence. one person can't change a definition; it would need to become common in a whole population. I know you can define variables in math. but you can't define 1 as 2. god isn't a variable; he's a constant.

why are you labelling these things as "GOD"? why pick a term that would be confused with its normal definition? if you're going to do this, you will have to differentiate between your definition of god and the standard definition of god.

I'm not going to continue this argument; there isn't much point. I'm just repeating myself over and over. try to give this some more thought.

also, atheists don't need to disprive the existence of god. it's impossible. notice I haven't made any arguments against god in this thread, or others. all I've done was refute arguments for god. I'm atheist because I haven't seen any valid arguments for god. none. and if you want to give some, do it in the other thread, "do god and satan exist?".

but if you look at the title of this thread, we're not exactly following it.

Good point, being a constant.....

but still my definition is the standard definition, it's just oriented to scientific minds...
What I said is entirely based in the bible (if you read the last post, you can notice a couple of examples). So, being it a constant, I can be wrong , it's just my interpretation, you're right.... but I can still be right (yahoo)

I know we're not following it, but, You're helping me give shape to my ideas, I cannot lose this chance...

A constant can only be defined like this 2 = 2... but I can always reformulate it like this: two = 2, that's what I'm trying to do. Many people believe: dos (what I said) is not equal to two.. But it is just in another language, in the case of my definition a more scientific language. But still, my interpertation is based in the general definition, and could be right...

thanks...

Hail Hitler...

What's beyond the known universe? Dimensions. Spectrums and realities that baffled many scientists throughout mankind's histories. Dimensions of which are so obscured, so mysterious, that no mere mortal beings can fully comprehend. Dimension of utter confusion in regions so far away, so complicated in their own perspectives, that even if we can somehow get to them, we would cease to exist. Why? Because despite the fact that I believe there are aliens out there, and we can one day travel through the star systems, I believe that we can only exist in this dimension, this reality, one that we can truly claim as our own, one that we can truly see and experience as our own.

alright, I'll keep this going then.

the main thing you need to consider is this: if god is defined as the set of laws that govern the universe, is that the christian god? sure, the definition of god changes from religion to religion, but you established yourself as a christian. now I'm obviously not the best expert on christianity...you'll have to ask a christian if you want more details on how the bible "defines" god. so you're welcome to think of god as laws. but this isn't the christian god.

one example I'll give to support this is that the universal laws were only created along with the universe. the christian god is eternal, whereas these laws aren't. I'd also be interested in hearing how this fits in with your views on jesus as our saviour.

also, just a tip - if someone asks you if you believe in god, make sure you tell him how you define god, because that's crucial.

What's beyond the known universe? Dimensions. Spectrums and realities that baffled many scientists throughout mankind's histories. Dimensions of which are so obscured, so mysterious, that no mere mortal beings can fully comprehend. Dimension of utter confusion in regions so far away, so complicated in their own perspectives, that even if we can somehow get to them, we would cease to exist. Why? Because despite the fact that I believe there are aliens out there, and we can one day travel through the star systems, I believe that we can only exist in this dimension, this reality, one that we can truly claim as our own, one that we can truly see and experience as our own.

opinion or fact? if it's a fact, I want support.
within the universe, we know of approximately 11 dimensions, but most of them curl into themselves and don't make any difference at all. (don't ask...even I can't comprehend it even though I'm explaining it...). there are about 5 dimensions that are significant, but since we can only perceive in 3, we can't think in 4 dimensions at a time.

woow! 11, when I left it it was 10... but remember that string theory is just a Theory, perhaps there are infinite dimentions.

Please read again my definition, laws (of everything, which is himself, not only the universe) are his will... you have to add that the universe itself is part of Him, but not Him... and of course that I think He has personality (I'm not sure if this is the word, but I think you know what I mean) all the christian stuff remains exactly the same... as the definition doesn't contradict it.

Note that I edit posts a lot, perhaps you missed something?

"you have to add that the universe itself is part of Him, but not Him..."

So are you saying that we are inside His stomach right now?

Sorry, I can't resist typing that. Anyway, what if universe was not a reality but part of our own imaginations?

then those imaginations would be part of Him, I don't know the nature of the universe/reality/all this crap, but it surely is part of what exists, even if it's not as material as we think it is...

Originally Posted by Rock lee

but remember that string theory is just a Theory, perhaps there are infinite dimentions.

Although that does work here, String theory being, IIRC, impossible to prove, it's still rather silly to call something 'just a theory', I had a debate in another topic about this, essentially everything in Science is a theory, none of it fact, aside from one thing, "I exist", which is true, I must exist in some form or other. So to call something 'Just a theory' is like me calling you 'just a human' or ZU 'just a webpage' etc. It's true, but rather pointless.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter

opinion or fact? if it's a fact, I want support.
within the universe, we know of approximately 11 dimensions, but most of them curl into themselves and don't make any difference at all. (don't ask...even I can't comprehend it even though I'm explaining it...). there are about 5 dimensions that are significant, but since we can only perceive in 3, we can't think in 4 dimensions at a time.

Just opinion. There are no facts to be given because we can't prove anything to be a fact except assumptions and hypothesis which wouldn't serve any purposes at all without actual experimentations, which we can't.

We do have 4th dimension it seems. 1st dimension as a line, 2nd dimension as flat objects, 3rd dimension as 3D objects, 4th dimension as time. I don't know about the 5th however.

Originally Posted by Rock lee

then those imaginations would be part of Him, I don't know the nature of the universe/reality/all this crap, but it surely is part of what exists, even if it's not as material as we think it is...

Well, I claim my imaginations as my own, based on my own sentient mind, my own free will, my choice to think or perceive the world around me as is.

Originally Posted by Rock lee

woow! 11, when I left it it was 10... but remember that string theory is just a Theory, perhaps there are infinite dimentions.

Please read again my definition, laws (of everything, which is himself, not only the universe) are his will... you have to add that the universe itself is part of Him, but not Him... and of course that I think He has personality (I'm not sure if this is the word, but I think you know what I mean) all the christian stuff remains exactly the same... as the definition doesn't contradict it.

Note that I edit posts a lot, perhaps you missed something?

so you're basically defining him as everything.

I'm really not the best person to help you develop your idea from this point on - you'll have to talk to christians, because they can explain the criteria for the christian god better than I can. one thing you may want to consider though: your definition of god includes sin. yet god is seen as perfect and incapable of sinning (well, even if he's capable, his moral boundaries stop him). well, that's it from me. I'm sure your minister would enjoy discussing something like this with you.


in another note,
after doing some physics reading, I'm afraid the answer to the original question in this thread is: nothing. there is no space, no time, no matter, no energy, no dimensions, nothing. this is pretty much by definition. just like there is nothing further south than the south pole, there is nothing outside the universe. now to understand this, or at least come close to understanding it, you need to empty your head of ANY preconceived notions of how the universe is formed. the shape and formation I'm presenting is nothing our minds can fully grasp. even geniuses like hawking, although they are the only ones who can really understand it, can't picture it.

anyway, to picture the universe and its expansion into nothingness, picture a balloon. now, this is a hypothetical balloon that has a 2-dimensional surface area that is curved to form a sphere. the expansion of a 2-dimensional universe would follow that expansion. now try to think of this 2 dimensional surface area (I know, it's impossible to grasp, but I'm trying to show how complicated it is), but instead of being a 2-dimensional plane, it is 3-dimensional. because the universe has more than 2 dimensions, space is not shaped as a sphere, but rather a shape we can't even picture in our heads. travelling through the universe would follow the same pattern as travelling on the surface area of a sphere - you can keep travelling forever, and reach no end. if you travel far enough, you end up right back where you started.

sorry if that's confusing. it's complicated stuff...

I believe that beyond our own universe is another and another, universe that is. I believe space goes on forever. I also believe that god is constantly adding to our "universe" or what is beyond. As we speak right now I believe he is making more and more galaxy's and universes. But thats just my guess. Yours is as good as mine.

Remember, the 3 dimentions we can understand aren't parallel, but ortogonal. If the multiverse is true, they would be all over our own universe and not beyond. And our universe would be all over the others. ?¿?¿?¿?¿? I guess... Don't really know.


Mad Hatter: I'm not shure, it's like he allows sin to be, for us to have absolute free will... but we are at the same time determined to do what we will do... The one thing I'm shure: sin will be erradicated in the end of this time (the universe we live in), which is not very far for Him, in fact, He's there and here and in the Beggining at the same time, because He's constant. If you suppose the universe lasts exactly 0 seconds for Him, then sins (¿almost?) don't exist (not shure, what do I mean with this? haha).
Who knows, perhaps everything I said is absolutely wrong (I already know some parts are), but you have to admit the ideas most of us have when we try to think who's God, are very improbable. I was trying to expand a little more in the concept and got confused in the process. But some of the ideas are still posible...

The main thing is, I don't believe science is the opposite to religion... I think: If God created the Universe (my belief, you don't have to), then He created the laws of phisics, and chemistry, and mathematics, first... then He used them to mold the universe... so they would be like, part of His acting will... so Big Bang, evolution and many other theories do not exclude God, in this context...my ideas are complicated, even for me...

You know how moving energy (like photons) create virtual particles (matter that disappears almost instantly) while they move through the universe?, or was it moving electrons? can't remember... what about space-time? perhaps the space only exists where particles move, like where there is no light, no matter, no nothing, there's no universe either.... Just another random thought.

And, that thing about the universe being bent in such a way that it has no real ending, it's the last theory right? so it could be wrong as almost all the other theories before, the rest are still being evaluated... It's very improbable to find a completely true FACT out there, scientists have a very hard life.

you're right, I do find the current views of god improbable. in fact, I'd have an easier time believing in many imperfect gods (like in greek mythology) than one omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient god. but that's another debate...

science doesn't HAVE to be the opposite of religion. unfortunately, a lot of the time it is. things like the argument over intelligent design and evolution show science and religion being as far as possible.

technically matter is moving energy. believe it or not, we're made up entirely of electromagnetic waves. of course, this is on a subatomic level. but I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say with that.

the theory of how the universe is shaped has been the top theory for decades. most astrophysicists accept it as fact. I haven't heard of any evidence against it, either.

The question is: do you accept it as a fact?, I find it very possible, but it isn't a fact for me (still)...

try to find information about "virtual particles", like "virtual protons", and such... I can't remember how was it...

If you think evolution (if it's true) is God's way of creating us (like I do), then the picture is a lot different...

I accept it as extremely likely, but not as a complete fact. the truth is, though, it won't make much difference if it's right or not, because it's not something we use to make predictions or solve problems.

I'll look into these "virtual particles." it sounds interesting.

if I believed in god, I would also think that evolution was god's way of creating us.

Thanks dude...
my ideas are one step (of many) closer of becoming the way of thinking of many more religious people, who also like science...

What's beyond the known universe? that's a simple question, the answer is simpler: the unknown universe...

about the virtual particles:

note that I translated the words from spanish... they might be called something else in english.

(Yey! I hadn't noticed, I'm a gerudo thief now).

about the unknown universe:

I really meant that answer... the known universe is smaller than the universe itself...

This post was inspired by this thread: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...ad.php?t=36231

I just wanted to say, that there's a credible theory that there are an infinite amount of dimensions, if this is true, that means every thing is real somewhere. Somewhere there is another you (well, an infinite amount of you). And it also means every piece of fiction (Every video game, movie, piece of literature etc.) is also real. That means Zelda, too.