What exactly is beyond the known Universe?

Originally Posted by Darmani`s Ghost

That's the point, it couldn't be an accident, something has made us and has made the universe and all other things. How can you explain that we are perfect made? our whole body is so complicated, so it can't be just an accident. But the question is why? why do we exist? these are the questions that I like to know, but unfortunately I can't find them because it's too complicated.

There is no evidence that we are too perfect to not be an accident. We have useless organs, we fight each other, we have a development period during which we are incredibly weak, we have to sleep, we have genetic diseases, we are born with deformities, etc.

Whatever we are we are not 'perfectly made'. As MH asked, why can't we be an accident? Why can't the universe be something that occurs by itself? What evidence do you have that we're too perfect to be made by chance? Gold was made by chance, Diamonds are made by chance, admittedly they aren't living, but they are considered perfect by many, does that mean that they must have been created?

Originally Posted by Mr Barrel

How are we actually ment to find out? We're only in the year 2005 A.D, it was only 100 years ago man learned how to fly, it was only 48 years ago that man sent the first unmanned spaceprobe into space, it was only 44 years ago that man first went into space, it was only 36 years ago man first landed on the moon..

So when we find out whats BEYOND the universe.. it's beyond me... We havn't even landed on a different planet yet! We've only landed on a moon, Earth's moon.

And imagine how much money it will cost cost for such a project like this.

Thats a good point, we really are pathetically clue-less at the moment.

The furthest man has got is the Moon, which is the shortest thing away from the planet. Thats pathetic when thinking of the magnificently gigantic scale of the Universe. But sure, its a big step for man-kind.

So its also easily possible that we find our first Alien, in a thousand years time; at the least.

Originally Posted by GDwarf

There is no evidence that we are too perfect to not be an accident. We have useless organs, we fight each other, we have a development period during which we are incredibly weak, we have to sleep, we have genetic diseases, we are born with deformities, etc.

Whatever we are we are not 'perfectly made'. As MH asked, why can't we be an accident? Why can't the universe be something that occurs by itself? What evidence do you have that we're too perfect to be made by chance? Gold was made by chance, Diamonds are made by chance, admittedly they aren't living, but they are considered perfect by many, does that mean that they must have been created?

The Big Bang theory is impossible. I mean that literally. The odds of such an event happening, taking all variables into account, have been calculated. They come out to be beyond what sceintists deem the realm of possibility. So if we didn't suddenly poof into existence (which is an incredibly absurd notion to begin with), then how did we come to be? And why is it that there has never been any society throughout any period of time that has not believed in a greater being whom is responsible for them? We are naturally inclined to our Lord because he created us that way. Some will claim that we think of God as being too similar to us; a simple preconception resulting from the limited thinking of humans. But that is not the case! Rather, God created man in his image. Go into the wilderness and take a good look around. Let the scent of wildflowers fill your nostrils, and feel the light breeze ruffle your hair. The sun glows high above, bathing you in soothing warmth. Your ability to sense these things is a luxury, not a necessity. Mankind has everything it needs on this planet and more (at least, it did until greed joined forces with industrialism to ruin this gosh-darned rock). The world is our playground. Yet you say that all of this came into being by complete chance? If I told you that your house was not built, but simply poofed into existence, you would laugh at me.

Now to the point.

To be brutally honest, it is likely that I could not begin to comprehend what lies beyond the realm of physicality. My personal belief is that nothing physical lies beyond our universe. Of course, that could very easily be wrong. But according to current knowledge, the universe is shaped like a horseshoe. If you tried to travel from one end to the other, you would end up right back where you started. So, in essence, our universe is an endless loop that we cannot escape. The more I think about it, the more I think it's impossible to know what's out there anyway short of asking the Creator himself. Unfortunately, I don't think I can do that right now. It truly is a baffling question, one of the great mysteries of the universe. Er... not quite sure how to phrase that... But I can think of a few other baffling questions that might give you a headache. For instance, try thinking about this:

Everything man knows has had a beginning and an end. Yet God has existed for all time extending beyond the past. Time knows no boundaries; it stretches on indefinitely in both directions, exceeding our very comprehension. God is eternal, literally the omega. Every time I think about this, I end up with a headache.

Big bang theory is not impossible, my Physics teacher said that we can still detect a sound wave (apprently) from the big bang. Yes you can detect a sound billions of years old. Apart from this fairly non-concusive evidence there is a lot of good evidence, though it may be a load of complete rubbich.

Every time I think about this, I end up with a headache.

I know how you feel.

I always found this this universe 'logic' baffling. I'm finding it difficult to explain why exactly so I'll use an analogy.

"If you have lived all your life in a box, how could you possibly know for sure what colour the outside of it is without getting out of the box to take a look? Would you even know HOW to get out of the box?"

What I mean is that because we are a part of the universe, there is no way we can comprehend it. Sure we can try, but ultimately, unless we find a myrical way of leaving the universe entirely, it's all blind guesswork.

Originally Posted by Wielder of the Sword

The Big Bang theory is impossible. I mean that literally. The odds of such an event happening, taking all variables into account, have been calculated. They come out to be beyond what sceintists deem the realm of possibility.

whoever calculated those probabilities didn't understand the big bang theory. probabilities don't apply to the big bang, since, as I said earlier, the laws under which our probabilities are made didn't exist.

So if we didn't suddenly poof into existence (which is an incredibly absurd notion to begin with), then how did we come to be?

it would take a novel to explain this. anyway, are you talking abuot people or the universe?

And why is it that there has never been any society throughout any period of time that has not believed in a greater being whom is responsible for them? We are naturally inclined to our Lord because he created us that way.

we are not naturally inclined to "our lord", because most societies believed in more than one god. even then, a natural inclination proves nothing. also, there have been plenty of societies that don't believe they were greated by a god. certain buddhist sects are an example.

Go into the wilderness and take a good look around. Let the scent of wildflowers fill your nostrils, and feel the light breeze ruffle your hair. The sun glows high above, bathing you in soothing warmth. Your ability to sense these things is a luxury, not a necessity.

our senses are a necessity, since they are needed for human survival. how are you gonna find food if you can't feel, hear, see, smell, or taste?

To be brutally honest, it is likely that I could not begin to comprehend what lies beyond the realm of physicality. My personal belief is that nothing physical lies beyond our universe. Of course, that could very easily be wrong. But according to current knowledge, the universe is shaped like a horseshoe.

actually, the physical shape of the universe probably isn't something we can comprehend.

Everything man knows has had a beginning and an end. Yet God has existed for all time extending beyond the past. Time knows no boundaries; it stretches on indefinitely in both directions, exceeding our very comprehension. God is eternal, literally the omega. Every time I think about this, I end up with a headache.

time is a universal thing, so it is not infinite. for god to follow time, there would have to be a second line of time that exists outside the universe. of course, god wouldn't need to follow time, since he isn't physical. god is not LITERALLY the omega; that's figuratively.

Originally Posted by Wielder of the Sword

The Big Bang theory is impossible. I mean that literally. The odds of such an event happening, taking all variables into account, have been calculated. They come out to be beyond what scientists deem the realm of possibility.

MH pointed out that the laws of probability didn't exist until after the big bang, besides, all the matter and energy in the universe were compressed into a point smaller then the head of a pin, how could that not result in the big bang? Again, the evidence is there, just look at it logically. The universe is expanding, so it's growing bigger. Thus, a second ago it was smaller then it is now, so if we carry that back far enough we get the big bang, is that hard to understand?

So if we didn't suddenly poof into existence (which is an incredibly absurd notion to begin with), then how did we come to be? And why is it that there has never been any society throughout any period of time that has not believed in a greater being whom is responsible for them?

Again, why is it absurd? What evidence do you have that it is impossible? Remember, as you are making the claim contrary to science, it's up to you to prove yourself right. Anyways, Humans need a reason for everything, almost every culture on Earth believes in fairies, psychics, mystics, and magic, does that mean that those are real?

Go into the wilderness and take a good look around. Let the scent of wildflowers fill your nostrils, and feel the light breeze ruffle your hair. The sun glows high above, bathing you in soothing warmth. Your ability to sense these things is a luxury, not a necessity.

The ability to feel things is a necessity, can you imagine anyone surviving without any of their senses? they couldn't, they'd have no way of telling how the world worked, nor what effect they had on it.

Mankind has everything it needs on this planet and more (at least, it did until greed joined forces with industrialism to ruin this gosh-darned rock). The world is our playground. Yet you say that all of this came into being by complete chance? If I told you that your house was not built, but simply poofed into existence, you would laugh at me.

Mankind has everything it needs because it adapted so that it could survive. An appendix used to be necessary, it isn't now, obviously we changed to suit the world better. Besides, there is evidence that my house was built, we don't have any proof that the Earth was built by anything, ti's properties match that of other planets, and it's existence can easily be explained by non-divine methods. No one claims it 'poofed' into existence, but rather gravity pulled it together.

To be brutally honest, it is likely that I could not begin to comprehend what lies beyond the realm of physicality. My personal belief is that nothing physical lies beyond our universe. Of course, that could very easily be wrong. But according to current knowledge, the universe is shaped like a horseshoe.

There is nothing beyond the universe, so I suppose you are correct. Also, the shape of the universe isn't known, how could we even measure it when not even light has reached anywhere near the end of it?

If you tried to travel from one end to the other, you would end up right back where you started. So, in essence, our universe is an endless loop that we cannot escape.

Experiments are being done to see if that is, in fact true, currently the jury is still out.

For many people it could probably depend on whether they have a religious preference or not, such as heaven and hell beyond what humans are capable of seeing

Just a small thought, is it not possible for this universe be the doing of a greater being or greater beings. We culture bactiria in petri dishes and the bacteria have no knowledge of existnece beyond that petri dish, so infact we could just be the culturing of higher beings who are far more comlex then ourselves.

I think the universe goes on and on until a certian point then its just oblivion, its seems kinda impossible for something to just never stop, unless the inverse was a world that consisted of gases that evolved around a biger sun-type thing that was in an even bigger galixy(or however you spell it) which was in a bigger universe and it just kept going...nah.

I believe that the universe is infinite. How could it just end? If it did end somewhere, what would the end look like? I wish we knew, it bugs me thinking about it.

well to answer your question i believe us earthlings are like the outcasts or (stupid planet) i believe there are planets who know and do live almost like the jetsons and go to different planets for vacation. Earth just isn't that technology friendly...

but sadly i do not have any proof just giving my thoughts

it's kind of hard to tell because scientist haven't really gone out that far, so we don't really know all that's out there...

I don't believe in big bang or Creationism. I believe in Chaos Theory..

I like it too because wether the physists who thought up this theory knew it or not. Chaos was an aicent Egyption god, the god that created all other gods, man, animal, everything. Chaos Theory is quite simplistic really, it all just happend. Because we live in a hectic universe where nothing can turn into something in the blink of an eye.. It's just very improbable that it does. But eventualy that 0.5% chance happens, and that's when we came about..

Originally Posted by Magister

I don't believe in big bang or Creationism. I believe in Chaos Theory..

I like it too because wether the physists who thought up this theory knew it or not. Chaos was an aicent Egyption god, the god that created all other gods, man, animal, everything. Chaos Theory is quite simplistic really, it all just happend. Because we live in a hectic universe where nothing can turn into something in the blink of an eye.. It's just very improbable that it does. But eventualy that 0.5% chance happens, and that's when we came about..

It more like 1 out of 10^80, but who's counting?

I belive it is entirely possible that their are other universes adjacet to ours. But we wont know for along time, so I dont really worry about it.

Originally Posted by Magister

I don't believe in big bang or Creationism. I believe in Chaos Theory..

I like it too because wether the physists who thought up this theory knew it or not. Chaos was an aicent Egyption god, the god that created all other gods, man, animal, everything. Chaos Theory is quite simplistic really, it all just happend. Because we live in a hectic universe where nothing can turn into something in the blink of an eye.. It's just very improbable that it does. But eventually that 0.5% chance happens, and that's when we came about..

How does that explain why the universe is expanding? After all, if it just came into being then gravity would pull it all back together, not push it apart.

Originally Posted by Magister

I don't believe in big bang or Creationism. I believe in Chaos Theory..

I like it too because wether the physists who thought up this theory knew it or not. Chaos was an aicent Egyption god, the god that created all other gods, man, animal, everything. Chaos Theory is quite simplistic really, it all just happend. Because we live in a hectic universe where nothing can turn into something in the blink of an eye.. It's just very improbable that it does. But eventualy that 0.5% chance happens, and that's when we came about..

actually, chaos theory is the theory that randomness can generate patterns. it is not a theory of the origin of the universe. so far chaos theory has proven to be correct - extremely complex and seemingly organized patterns have been generated by completely random equations. the big bang theory, as far as I know, incorporates chaos theory on a subatomic level.

If the laws of phisics didn't exist before the big bang, then it's not obvious it had to explode, it would depend on the "other laws"... haha.

For me: "everything that exists" (I'm not calling it universe or multiverse or whatever) is infinite. It's simply part of the group of every possible thing that could exist. I'll refer to that group as "GOD", because I simply want to call it that way. GOD is the group of laws: phisical, mathematical, non-phisical, also the ones that supposedly existed before big bang (if it is true), etc... plus the objects and beings that are ruled by them, plus everything else... So GOD is the existence and more, and all that exists is part of GOD... (note that this definition is not agaist the bible, and can also be accepted by a non-religious person)
This definition also allows GOD to exist without beginning, or end... You cannot counter it asking: "then who created GOD?".
I'm still working on the definition, though I will never end it because the group GOD involves infinite elements that no one I know can understand yet, and we learn things at a certain rate, so we will never understand everything.... the truth is

"GOD works in misterious ways" and "GOD itself is the big mistery"

I personally believe it has a personality (3 in 1, at least, and possibly every single one of this 3 have more in them... and we are a very tiny bit of one or the 3 of them... the number of big sub-groups of the universal group GOD is debatable, but I like 3 because I'm christian)

If you're atheist you can still accept this definition of GOD without the personality thing, and there you go, you believe in GOD now (haha)

I think the big problem in the world of "God exists"/"God doesn't exist"/"There are many Gods", is only a problem because we are using different diccionaries, so everyone chose a different definition... like the problem up there with the definition of law and theory. I'm trying to make a complete definition, but I'll never complete it, too bad (ha)


P.D. you can call it CHAIR if you want, but I think GOD is a better word for it.

P.D.2. I know it seems off topic, but this is what I think is beyond the universe, GOD (as I like to call it).

you can't prove the existence of god by redefining the word. sure, if god is the set of forces and laws that govern the universe, I believe in him wholeheartedly. but that's not the case. god is defined as a supernatural being (well, that's just part of it, but the rest changes from religion to religion).

you're basically equivocating with definitions that don't even exist.

Remember that being is something that exists (plus something more, but that's not the point, besides being means that in my language, which I'll discuss later), so the biggest supernatural being, is the existence itself, the great being, the one thing (group of things) that IS... And I said before that I just chose the word because I want, the definition of the word I myself chose to define cannot be wrong according to myself... Sure it can and will get misinterpreted, some words in japanese are insults in spanish. But the point is I'm talking my own language and I cannot be wrong in my own defined language. In your language what I said in mine is false, and I accept I am wrong in your language, but not in mine...

A definition starts to exist when someone starts using it. I'm using this definition so it exists (I know it's not general, still working on it).

....

If it helps:

it's like a mathematical definition:

let y be x + 3

now, your y is x + 1 so whenever I say 6, you say 4. Therefore I'm wrong according to your definition. If my answer upholds all the logical rules (if x=3) then I'm ok according to my definition, (I want to correct the thing I said: that I cannot be wrong in my language... I see now that I can be wrong in my own language, but the definition itself cannot be wrong.
There is the possibility though, that there isn't a word in the language used, that fulfills the definition....

example let x be x + 1 (there is no real number that satisfies this, but perhaps there is something outside the real number language that does)
and so I invent the number that satisfies that equation (note that it isn't real, imaginary, or complex, it's something else)