Do God and Satan Exist?

we havent heard or seen anything amazing from god for a thousand years or more.

could he have left becauae he made us for enertainement and is now creating something else.

or he dosent want to interfear with us and/or want us to forget about him.

or some other matter....

im only 13!

I really hate this question. I hate it with a passion. Why? It usually sparks some of the worst arguements of all time. Both sides (those who say yes and those who say no) usually not knowing what the hell they're talking about.

Is there proof that god exsist: No

Is there proof that he/she/it doesn't: No

Is there EVIDENCE: Yes, actually.

Where?: Well, look at yourself. Look outside, study astronamy, study biology. Persoanlly, I find it hard to beleive that something as perfectly balanced as our universe was created by coincidence. The human body, along with everything else in our world, works like a machine. And it takes intelligence to create machines, right?

Originally Posted by warriorccc0

we havent heard or seen anything amazing from god for a thousand years or more.

could he have left becauae he made us for enertainement and is now creating something else.

or he dosent want to interfear with us and/or want us to forget about him.

or some other matter....

im only 13!

its not whats wrong with God...its what wrong with us! in america we are the one naton that was founded upon christianity. we should be a very holy country right? well guess what? the music industy= sex sex, hoes hoes, cars cars (well rap anyways, rock does too though, but not as much). movie industry= blood, gore, ummm, sex! (were seeing alot of sex here arent we?) video games= well video games are pretty musch just like the movies, only not as bad. but still bad. tv=sex sex sex! internet= sex!

looking at the facts above, i think you can understand why we havnt seen any huge signs from God like a new moses or anything lately. studys show that the percentage of american adult christians who are "real" christians...is about 6 percent. and teenagers...2 percent. now i believe God has been waiting for sometime now for someone (in any nation!) to step up to the plate and be like moses or noah. but you know what? noone has! hes still waiting! noone with a rightous enough heart has come to him saying, "i am ready, take me and make me like joseph or paul!" and maybe some have, but a big enough selection so that God could pick someone out to carry out one of his tasks, considering not enough people would be at the right place (i would say at the right time, but for some reason i dont think that would be a big isuue considering the israelites were held captive by other nations for almost 80 years at a time).

but not all hope is lost. God is still doing amazing things. just not over hre in america, so we dont hear about it very much. down in south america (or, im pretty sure thats where it was, either that or africa) there are so many people being raised from the dead, that you are not allowed to become a pastor unless youve revived 5 people. also, they were having a convention (a christian one) where this one lady, who had her eyes completely gouged out, just had her eyes just appear in her eye sockets. and this one kids entire lower arm was gone, and a new one just popped up right there. thousands of people witnessed it (of course then they started running around screaming because they were scared, but oh well).

so our conclusion is, God is doing some amazing things still. but nothing as amazing as moses or samson has happened because noone who is in the right place is able to. think about it, God could be instructing you to become the next samson, but it wont happen because were all to worldly. were way too secular. remember, we were made in the image of God, and just as we get dissapointed, God gets dissapointed. ask this question...is God dissapointed in you?

Or perhaps these amazing things god has done never actually happened to begin with. Did you consider that?

Or perhaps these amazing things gone has done never actually happened to begin with. Did you consider that?

maybe they did, did you ever consider that? there were witnesses, nerr.

plus, ive seen a magazine with a picture of a guy who had his official death certificate and he was holding it...he was alive by the way.

Beleive it or not, I spent the majority of my life considering that. And there were never any witnesses. Altough I consider myself a christian, I find nothing in the bible beyond the crusifiction of Jesus fact based. In fact, I beleive people who ARE finding it fact based are reading it the wrong way.

I treat christianity like buddist treat thier religion: I use it as a way of life. Nothing more. Meaning, I don't try and force someone to beleive that the bible is actually a history book, like most christians.

I'm a catholic but at times I doubt my religion. Sometimes I feel that death is the end and there will be no judgement...

......You mind elaborating?

I am agnostic, then, I think that if God exists or not, it's not of my business. Nothing he can do (if he exists) will affect me...

Originally Posted by IndiGo-Go Zora

maybe they did, did you ever consider that? there were witnesses, nerr.

So they say. In the bible we never hear from those witnesses. ¬_¬

plus, ive seen a magazine with a picture of a guy who had his official death certificate and he was holding it...he was alive by the way.

He could have had the disease which puts you into a paralysis, and renders you clinically dead; until you wake up a few days later.

Well that is a complex question which no one can go through in just one post. To sum it up...I believe that there is surely something out there. I dont think Satan exists but I know there is a higher being that made the universe and all that, afterall if you really think about it how could anything exist. You ask yourself this...what was around before we were here...before the earth and all the planets. The scientists believe that there was a "Big Bang" which created everything we see now...how could that be? Everythings made of matter...where did that come from? All these questions which philosophers has thought about and many failed...in the end we are just sand. Im not going to try to sound knowledgeable...no one is in this world...but I dont question the world, cause the world is what it is.

Im not going to ramble on, Im going to finish off with this...in the end its not if there is proof God or Satan exists...its if you believe it.

Originally Posted by Bokoboblin

Good points, I must say, however, in response to your first paragraph, what you said is true, no doubt about that! Although, their have been a few churches in the past, and even are still around today in Europe, that offer the "[i]healing of God"[i], what I mean by this is that people have been brought in before to the priests and bishops with their with sicknesses and conditions, and they go through a blessing of God, of sorts, a special type of ritual if you may, which it is in fact, believe it or not, their have been live, real reports of people going into trauma and being healed right on the spot, their that day, by something they cannot explain. That, is just one of the many ways we feel God's presence with us today.

unfortunately, none of these have been recorded in a proper testing environment, and no experiments have been done supporting this. there's no way to know if it was god who cured them or even if they were actually cured. there's a big oratory near me with a huuuge staircase. supposedly if you're handicapped and you climb up all the stairs, you're cured. well, obviously. if you can climb 10 sets of stairs I can't see how you'd need a wheelchair. with the things you mentioned, there's also a lot of room for placebo effect. many diseases have been cured by pills containing nothing but sugar. so while I'm not going to jump to conclusions, not enough is known about these things for you to jump to conclusions either.

As in reference to your second quote, question/comment, it isn't like I have died and seen this obvisiouly, but, people today are always thinking their is a reasonable explanation for most things, some things cannot, be explained in the past though and have had certain occurances with the supernatural.

but just because we don't have the technology to explain certain things doesn't mean there has to be a metaphysical world out there. in the past, humans didn't understand why crops grew better some years than others. their conclusion? we've upset the gods!

Finally, in regards to your third comment, I did not say Satan caused them, I said something different, I don't know where you came up with that assumption you made of that paragraph, however, maybe I didn't look hard enough, or you misunderstood me, or both, but I did not say what you thought.

sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. the satan bit wasn't really supposed to be something you said, but I was trying to make the point that we shouldn't jump to supernatural explanations when physical explanations are right in front of us.

If you don't mind me pointing this out, that's a theory based on the current interpretation of some data. Considered evidence, yes, but certainly not rock-hard, immovable evidence.

there's no such thing as immovable, definite evidence for anything. of course, if we go by the "true beyond reasonable doubt" standards, do you have reason to doubt it? can you offer a better interpretation of this data? redshift readings are just one of the methods used to show that galaxies are drifting apart from each other.

That is largely because theories are often put together to fit the known facts when an older one obviously doesn't, in my opinion. I could be wrong in this case, though.

that's the point of a theory. to explain a set of facts. but in terms of the origin of the big bang theory, it was originally formed when we found out the universe was expanding. then we came to conclusions based on that. the facts are around before the theory. but we didn't say, "oh, there's a lot of hydrogen, so it must have come first."

I don't know what religion I am. But I know I'm not a believer in God, Satan, Heaven, Hell and most 'life after death' related things. I believe in guardian angels because at times I feel theres been someone watching over me. Like a passed family memeber, not God or anything. I think that we only get one chance at life, so we must live it how we want because once you're dead, thats it! If God really did exist, there'd be no poverty or any bad things in the world. I believe that God was created by someone to stop us all going mad and running riot, so they created the idea of God and something to look forward to after death so that we'd all be good and think we were going to heaven.

I believe in God and Satan, but not as immortal enemies, but merely both entities that are means to an end.. Infact, I don't understand why Satan is the primary enemy of God, he is only the 6th most powerful in Hell's Legion. Oh sure he played a big role in the New Testament, so the guy's got a powerful personality, does that make him more of a threat then those who are simply stronger and make better leaders? Was it not Lucifer who convinced 1/4th of Heaven's Army to join his quest?

But as said, means to an end. I believe "the devil" grasps a much more conceivable concept. Torment, punishment, these are the devil's tools. Chrstian doctrine has deluded people from the truth that the devil wants to trick you into damnation for his own amusement, but it couldn't be farther from the truth. I mean really, if he's doomed to Hell, how does he have the time to play malevolent? No, the devil uses deception as a tool, but only against sinners, a soul can't go to Hell who isn't weighed down by sin can they? The devil sees to reason to show mercy or remorse to the un-deserving, this is where God and him differ. God is too soft on us, that's why we killed His son, mock His words, and deny His exsistance. The devil knows this, acknowledges this, and holds the one truth that man needs to be punished before he is forgivven..

Many of you may not know this, but even a prophet thought much like this about the relationship between God and the devil.. his name.. was Saint Peter..

I would like to quote a post I did on the What's beyond the known universe thread, because I don't want to write it again:

quote: (with little adjustments)

For me: "everything that exists" (I'm not calling it universe or multiverse or whatever) is infinite. It's simply part of the group of every possible thing that could exist. I'll refer to that group as "GOD", because I simply want to call it that way. GOD is the group of laws: phisical, mathematical, non-phisical, also the ones that supposedly existed before big bang (if it is true), etc... plus the objects and beings that are ruled by them, plus everything else... So GOD is the existence and more, and all that exists is part of GOD... (note that this definition is not agaist the bible, and can also be accepted by a non-religious person)
This definition also allows GOD to exist without beginning, or end... You cannot counter it asking: "then who created GOD?".
I'm still working on the definition, though I will never end it because the group GOD involves infinite elements that no one I know can understand, yet, and we learn things at a certain rate, so we will never understand everything.... the truth is

"GOD works in misterious ways" and "GOD itself is all the big misteries" (the one that scientists are always concerned about)

I personally believe it has a personality (3 in 1, at least, and possibly every single one of this 3 have more in them... and we are a very tiny bit of one or the 3 of them... the number of big sub-groups of the universal group GOD is debatable, but I like 3 because I'm christian)

If you're atheist you can still accept this definition of GOD without the personality thing, and there you go, you believe in GOD now (haha)

I think the big problem in the world, the "God exists"/"God doesn't exist"/"There are many Gods" debate, is only a problem because we are using different diccionaries, so everyone chose a different definition... like the problem up there with the definition of law and theory (this happened in that thread). I'm tryng to make a complete definition, but I'll never complete it, too bad (ha)


P.D. you can call it CHAIR if you want, but I think GOD is a better word for it.

end of quote....

As for the devil, I think he's part of this GOD, but just a temporary part. Some of us will become part of the group DEVIL (I hope I'm not one of them), because we will enter the sub-groups of DEVIL, which I call SINS, another order of sub-groups appear here and I call them DEMONS (not exactly sure what's the difference in those two kinds of groups). But all this group will be erased in the end of time, they will be erased from GOD because they chose not to be a part of HIM or IT or whatever, and beyond GOD there is nothing (ceasing to exist is my HELL)...

My theory has still a lot of problems, but I'm working on them....



Oh and Nintendoqueen, do you think poverty is a bad thing?
wealth is not necesarily good, it can corrupt you... as a matter of fact: there is nothing bad or good in the material world, the one "bad" or "good" is you... (that's the way I see it)