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Old 05-22-2012, 07:26 AM
Loki Laufeyson Loki Laufeyson is offline
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Exclamation Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

Quoting The New England Journal of Medicine:
The traditional distinction between active and passive euthanasia requires critical analysis. The conventional doctrine is that there is such an important moral difference between the two that, although the latter is sometimes permissible, the former is always forbidden. This doctrine may be challenged for several reasons. First of all, active euthanasia is in many cases more humane than passive euthanasia. Secondly, the conventional doctrine leads to decisions concerning life and death on irrelevant grounds. Thirdly, the doctrine rests on a distinction between killing and letting die that itself has no moral importance. Fourthly, the most common arguments in favor of the doctrine are invalid. I therefore suggest that the American Medical Association policy statement that endorses this doctrine is unsound. (James Rachels, N Engl J Med 292:78–80, 1975)
What is your stance about euthanasia, given the case is that the family couldn't afford to continue lifelong medications for their loved ones?

In which, indeed, euthanasia is not a free procedure as well, but it costs lower compared to treatments and medications to prolong the life of sufferers (example, compulsory chemotherapy sessions and taking medicines among cancer survivors), facing monetary limits that euthanasia seems to be the only solution for their situation.

Or do we actually have better options instead of having people dying?
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:26 AM
Great White North Great White North is a male Prussia Great White North is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

Euthanasia is a bit of an iffy topic for me.

I'll break it down thought.

Should we be allowed to make the choice to euthanize others? Absolutely not. Not in any way, shape, or form. People have inherent rights, and for us to make the decision to end their lives is wrong. Further, it opens the door for abuse such as having older people killed for the purpose of inheritance.

Now, when people themselves ask to be euthanized, then it becomes complicated. I have a generally supportive view of bodily autonomy (except in well, a certain controversial topic that must not be named). I can be swayed to accept that someone in possession of all their faculties can make the choice over their own life like that.

What I can't support is when someone gets sick and asks to be euthanized. At that point, I would argue that they aren't in their entirely right mind. If someone would want to be euthanized when they get sick, I'd say that we should have everyone make a choice when they are in their right minds as to whether the health care system is to listen to them when they do get sick.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:29 AM
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

Euthanasia should be legal. A right to life includes a right to end it, should you so choose. Else you don't have true freedom. Just like a driver's license does not mandate you drive everywhere.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:47 AM
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

I do believe that everyone should have the right to end their lives painlessly and with dignity.

However, it would be terribly sad indeed if the deciding factor for euthanasia was simply a lack of funds to keep paying for medication.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:55 AM
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

I myself believe that a person should be able to terminate his/her life when he or she cannot live a humain life.

My grandfather had a stroke several years ago and has been unable to control his motions ever since. He has also lost the abillity to speak. He can still see, hear and interpered everithing around him.

I cannot even try to comprehend how that man must feel inside and if I ever end op in such a situation, they may end my life.

In Belgium, by law, euthanasia is allowed if certain requirements are met. The most important being that the the person suffers from the condition and that it is uncurable.
A person can ask to be euthanised as long as he/she is able of mind and this can also be written down in a will-like notary document for when you lose this ability.

However I'm still doubtfull on the part if other people should decide in your stead, I still think that's a step too far.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:57 AM
Nesi Finland Nesi is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by DJFoxHound16 View Post
The most important being that the the person suffers from the condition and that it is uncurable.
My views in short.

I believe a person has a right to end their own lives with dignity - as Asta put it. There is no point in going through the pain that does nothing else but bringing the person closer and closer to death - I think that implies well enough that the condition must be incurable.

I don't agree with other people deciding instead of the person whether or not to use euthanasia. It needs consent. Personal consent. If the person is unable to give one, no one should decide this instead of them.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:00 AM
Great White North Great White North is a male Prussia Great White North is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by Nestlé View Post
My views in short.

I believe a person has a right to end their own lives with dignity - as Asta put it. There is no point in going through the pain that does nothing else but bringing the person closer and closer to death - I think that implies well enough that the condition must be incurable.

I don't agree with other people deciding instead of the person whether or not to use euthanasia. It needs consent. Personal consent. If the person is unable to give one, no one should decide this instead of them.
I largely agree with you, though I'd see the caveat that any decision to end one's own life has been made with a sound mind and body. Pain can do strange things to people, and make them do things that they either wouldn't normally do or if they ever recover would look back and be glad they hadn't been permitted to be euthanized.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:13 AM
Nesi Finland Nesi is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

I must agree with you based on my own hospital experiences. ^___^ At the same time, I would've definitely considered sane, mentally speaking at least, so I'm not sure I know how you can prove that it's the pain speaking and not the person when he or she is normal anyway.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:31 AM
Great White North Great White North is a male Prussia Great White North is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by Nestlé View Post
I must agree with you based on my own hospital experiences. ^___^ At the same time, I would've definitely considered sane, mentally speaking at least, so I'm not sure I know how you can prove that it's the pain speaking and not the person when he or she is normal anyway.
Psychiatrists will in legal cases deem individuals mentally sound or not in cases where the defence pleads insanity. While the qualifications would be different, it's probably not impossible for the mental health field to do the same for euthanasia.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:04 PM
Double A Double A is a male New Zealand Double A is online now
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by Great White North View Post
I largely agree with you, though I'd see the caveat that any decision to end one's own life has been made with a sound mind and body. Pain can do strange things to people, and make them do things that they either wouldn't normally do or if they ever recover would look back and be glad they hadn't been permitted to be euthanized.
But that's a given: they're in pain. Of course they wouldn't do things they normally wouldn't, as abnormal situations tend to cause. Though I think that being put into an abnormal position which causes abnormal actions is itself not grounds for mental instability. Not only that, but I'd also assume that anything that causes pain worth undergoing euthanasia generally does NOT allow the patient to "look back" favourably, if at all.

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I have a generally supportive view of bodily autonomy (except in well, a certain controversial topic that must not be named).
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:13 AM
Jedi Master Sagan Jedi Master Sagan is a male United States Jedi Master Sagan is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by Great White North View Post
I largely agree with you, though I'd see the caveat that any decision to end one's own life has been made with a sound mind and body. Pain can do strange things to people, and make them do things that they either wouldn't normally do or if they ever recover would look back and be glad they hadn't been permitted to be euthanized.
If they do get euthanized, at least we can be sure that they won't live to regret it.

Joking aside, I do agree that a person should be of sound health and mind when making such a decision, if at all possible. Sometimes, though, the only thing to look forward to is barely an existence completely lacking in dignity. Y'know, like that mess with Terri Schiavo some years ago. In such a case, when a person is for whatever reason reduced to essentially a meatsack no longer capable of even minimally perceiving the world around him, then I do feel that euthanasia is the dignified choice.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:34 AM
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

People in this thread seem to be leaning toward being against deciding euthanasia for somebody else. But why? If somebody is truly braindead and incapable of ever recovering, is it not selfish to use a bed, money and resources to keep them alive just for the sake of being alive? I suppose you really have to delve into the definition of death. If there is no brain activity present but the heart is still beating, it's not death but is it life? All I'm saying is, those resources and bed could be better spent on someone completely capable of recovery and someone who actually needs it.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:27 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

Quote:
Psychiatrists will in legal cases deem individuals mentally sound or not in cases where the defence pleads insanity. While the qualifications would be different, it's probably not impossible for the mental health field to do the same for euthanasia.
Would you say that there's a chance we run the risk of the definition of "mentally sound" becoming based on desire for the end of one's own life, or largely related to it?

It definitely seems like a potentiality, given the controversial nature of the subject, there being difficulty in getting a definition of "mentally sound" that doesn't exclude almost inherently those who want to kill themselves.

Although it might be a complete non-issue as well. They are trained professionals, after all.

And personally, I support it in, well, pretty much the same cases everyone else here does. I don't think other people should be able to decide for you (although, admittedly, I haven't considered this position much; it's a hunch more than anything). I think people should be free to end their own life. On whether they should or shouldn't when they're sick... I'm not sure. I don't know what to think about that, about their ability to freely make choices when they're sick.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:15 PM
Fraud of the Stal Fraud of the Stal is a male United Kingdom Fraud of the Stal is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

I'm all for euthanasia, in fact natural death is in most cases very painful and uncomfortable and giving people the choice will have massive benefits for so many people. I think it may be possible to have professionals making decisions on the behalf of the patients but I think the idea of leaving contingency instructions (with a default option to leave to a professional's judgement) is something that should be encouraged and preferred.

Allowing euthanasia will bring up some more issues though; should we allow euthanasia for people, say if they have outstanding debts?
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:34 PM
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by Fraud of the Stal View Post
Allowing euthanasia will bring up some more issues though; should we allow euthanasia for people, say if they have outstanding debts?
I don't think any financial issue should be even a question.

If it were legal, euthanasia would be used as a last resort. Do you really think that someone with, say, severe brain damage would be able to pay off his debts out of sudden when he's in a hospital anyway? Should we not allow him euthanasia because of his financial situation?

No, I don't believe finances should have anything to do with euthanasia. It's not something people would use in order to get rid of their debts.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:59 PM
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by Great White North View Post
I largely agree with you, though I'd see the caveat that any decision to end one's own life has been made with a sound mind and body. Pain can do strange things to people, and make them do things that they either wouldn't normally do or if they ever recover would look back and be glad they hadn't been permitted to be euthanized.
but this doesn't make any sense. People want different things depending on their current condition, pain is no different. It's like saying you can only choose to eat when your mind isn't being effected by hunger to make you want to eat. Incurable, unbearable pain is often the reason people would choose euthanasia—why would they need it if everything was going all right?
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:20 PM
Fraud of the Stal Fraud of the Stal is a male United Kingdom Fraud of the Stal is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestlé
Do you really think that someone with, say, severe brain damage would be able to pay off his debts out of sudden when he's in a hospital anyway?
No, but consider the case when a person can pay off their debts, then what? Or should euthanasia only be limited to those who can't work (I would say that inability to work is not a necessary nor sufficient criteria for euthanasia). Many people may want to be euthanized before they lose their ability to work as a matter of dieing with dignity.

And debt is quite important, perhaps we can remove the debts but then shouldn't there be other serious places were we remove debts as a matter of consistency? If we can afford to cancel the debts of individuals who can work, should that money be spent on them rather than those who cannot? And will the removal of debts facilitate the loan companies and banks to discriminate against those with problems like chronic depression or low or decreasing levels of life satisfaction, which would be more likely to take legal suicide (which is what I'm advocating, legality not discrimination that is).

On the flip side, wouldn't that make the power to willingly die only a rich person's privilege?

I'm not taking a side as of yet, but it's a serious question which I don't dismiss as readily as you.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:39 PM
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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Originally Posted by Fraud of the Stal View Post
Allowing euthanasia will bring up some more issues though; should we allow euthanasia for people, say if they have outstanding debts?
Absolutely not.

I think euthanasia should only be used as a last resort. When it's impossible for a terminally ill or critically injured (or hell, extremely old and frail) human to live a normal human life.


And that's because it would likely be state or government funded euthanasia. I'd really prefer that my tax dollars didn't go towards helping someone take the easy way out from their debts.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:40 PM
mattj mattj is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

What about recreational euthanasia? Like, for non-medical reasons, etc.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:48 PM
Great White North Great White North is a male Prussia Great White North is offline
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Re: Is it okay for people to go for euthanasia?

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What about recreational euthanasia? Like, for non-medical reasons, etc.
I do believe they call that suicide.

Unless you were referring to euthanasia done for fun? Well they call that alternatively homicide or psychosis, depending on the responsible party.
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