Should pot be legalized?

Originally Posted by Dislutfate

sah-ooooorrrrr-suh?
because I find that a little hard to believe.

Yep! In fact I covered it earlier in this thread. Same page for me!

Originally Posted by Gamzee

So carcinogenic that it ends up fighting cancer?

I haven't read the debate, but I'm going to toss my few cents in:

At least from what I understand, being high is not a significantly different level of impairment than being drunk. Marijuana is if anything, less harmful than alcohol to your body, and less addictive as well.

It seems absurd that one would argue for the legalization of alcohol, but want to ban pot. I personally think it makes more sense to simply legalize the thing and tax it.

Originally Posted by Demise

nope.avi

I'm not from the US, or am I?

Apparently you're from Canada, which coincidentally has a government as well. They're also rather similar, at least in that "spends millions of dollars a year to keep marijuana illegal and persecute users" department.

Originally Posted by 8bit

Right, and I would suggested that driving under the influence of large amounts of THC can increase your risk of causing a traffic accident. I'd also make the same argument for diving under the influence of large amounts of caffeine, which also reduces reaction time.



Yes, it has negative effects in the same sense that, as mentioned above, caffeine has negative effects. I don't believe this merits heavy regulation, and I find this to be a very hypocritical position, unless you are willing to take the same position on caffeine.



I'm curious as to your opinion of caffeine; a drug I would consider to be a 'harder', more addictive, with more negative side effects than cannabis.

The two aren't comparable, in my opinion. Maybe you should seek a more suitable comparison to work with.

For example, take a giant gulp of coffee and note the effects. Next, take a giant hit from the bong and note the effects.

Originally Posted by mattj

ima have to ask for a few sources for that

THIS study says caffeine reduces reaction time. THIS study says that one cup of coffee improves driving performance. THIS study suggests that moderate amounts of caffeine do all kinds of positive things. THIS article suggests that 4 cups of coffee a day are fine, and that jitters don't normally occur until after 8 or more cups.

I don't feel like linking them again in this very thread, but several studies have suggested that even small amounts of THC make people unfit to drive. That doesn't sound comparable to pot.

To be fair, caffeine only boosts your cognition until you become used to it. Then it only seems that way because before you daily cup of joe in the morning you're actually going through withdrawal. From John Hopkins Bayview Medical Center

That doesn't mean that you'll get stoned on caffeine, of course.

Silver and I are sick of having to repeatedly tell people to be civil.

Last chance, one more insult and we're locking the thread.

Originally Posted by Gamzee

Yep! In fact I covered it earlier in this thread. Same page for me!

Oh wow, that's pretty neat. The more you know!

Way more money is made by it being illegal that would ever be made by legalization and taxation. The only way its ever gonna be 'decriminalized' is when the economy tanks to the point no one can pay for cops or courts.

The legal status of weed has nothing to do with medical value, morality or saftey. Its about $$

I don't think it will take the economy tanking in order for it to become regulated by the state. In Canada, dialogue has already begun by two of the three major political parties. Even the Conservatives, who as of yet have not declared support (and have done just the opposite with their omnibus crime law) for legalization measures, their leader has fully admitted that the war on drugs has failed just the past week whilst at the Summit of the Americas.

Even if you are American (forgive the presumption) if it becomes legalized within Canada the United States would likely feel a push towards doing so if only because of the drug tourists that chose to visit much closer Toronto over Amsterdam.

Yes i am in the US. Places where its been made medicinal get raided by the Feds. Totally never becoming legal here unless the government is too broke to pay cops or bribe people...

Lighting up a tightly packed bowl of pure psychic glee is clearly an immoral act, much like killing a child or defecating on a childhood pet. Death should be the immediate penalty.

MIND CRIME BRIGADE, ACTION!

Serious answer: I think I should be within my right to ingest whatever I'd like and to police such a thing as marijuana is far from fair in relation to other drugs like alcohol or nicotine. Big business is behind that little arrangement, I'm sure.

I don't think it should be legal for anything other than medicinal purposes. I don't see why we need another drug out there. I already wish that cigarettes and alcohol were illegal, but so many people are for that. I just see it as something that is messing people up. Of course, it isn't my choice of what people choose to do. I personally just wish it wasn't legal in the first place.

Portugal legalized all drugs and after a breif upswing drug used dropped to almost nothing. Those that cant handle their $#!^ kill themselves off pretty quick.

Originally Posted by kymeric

Portugal legalized all drugs and after a breif upswing drug used dropped to almost nothing. Those that cant handle their $#!^ kill themselves off pretty quick.

...what?

Do you have a source for this?

^ Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

It's important to note though that Portugal did not legalise drugs; rather, it decriminalised them, in that if you are caught with drugs, you get counselling instead of prison time (which saves money as incarcerating drug users is more expensive than rehabilitating them).

I wouldn't say drug use has dropped to almost nothing, but it has decreased substantially since they've been decriminalised.

Originally Posted by Farore's Apprentice

I don't think it should be legal for anything other than medicinal purposes. I don't see why we need another drug out there. I already wish that cigarettes and alcohol were illegal, but so many people are for that. I just see it as something that is messing people up. Of course, it isn't my choice of what people choose to do. I personally just wish it wasn't legal in the first place.

Agreed. Me having been a heavy pot-smoker, I disagree with the people arguing that it is supposedly such an innocent drug. You can argue the person is to blame for abuse, but I don't think that is entirely true in many cases. I could possibly accept legalization if it would help reduce problems in society though.

I don't know. I mean, I'm against any kind of drugs being used, considering people do some ♥♥♥♥ing stupid ♥♥♥♥ when they're high. Cigarettes are just about the dumbest addiction you can get; there is no upside, you're just killing your lungs and other people's. Cigarettes should never have been created, they just give thousands of people lung cancer a year with no positive effects.

Alcohol's pretty stupid, too. You damage your heart, liver, and brain cells. Your vision can become blurred, your coordination's usually messed up, your reaction time is slowed, and you aren't you. You think you're fine, but you're not. The killing of brain cells is extremely deprimental to teenagers who drink, considering their brains are in the peak of developing and drinking can significantly decrease that growth.

ALCOHOL'S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN

Okay, so even if we "say" these negative effects don't exist, what about the social implications? Drinking has been linked to drunk driving and unneccessary deaths thousands of times. Drinking alcohol and doing drugs has also been linked to depression in teenagers, one of the top three leading causes of death in today's youth. When you drink frequently, you're also malnourished, as you're not getting enough Vitamin B1, A.K.A. Thiamine.

So my question to you is, why would anyone do this? "My life's hard and I need to drink." Jesus, no you don't. If your life is so "♥♥♥♥ty" because you father took away your phone, or your mother grounded you for disrespecting her, you deserve it. You're an arrogant teenager who needs to realize that you're far less important than you think you are and you deserve punishment for disrespecting your parents. Alcohol and drugs are detrimental to your body, because they've been linked to liver and brain cell loss, also considering they're a "life-line" to any semblance of a normal life you might have once had and you depend on it. You want to forget about the world, so you get wasted/blazed. But any half-decent person will realize that you need pain to get through the world.

And if there's one thing I can't stand, it's when someone says, "It's your life, do what you want with it." What the hell is wrong with you? People shoot people, and it's okay, since "they do what they want to". What kind of ♥♥♥♥ed-up morality is that? A drunk driver can kill innocent passerby? Drinking's okay since it can lead to a spiraling depression and cirrhosis? A man can rape a woman since it's "their life?" Drugs are okay since they mess with your brain? Drugs are illegal for a reason, as is alcohol until you're old enough. People need to be held responsible for their actions.

(I'm not using "you" like I'm calling anyone out, I'm using it in the general term.)

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

So my question to you is, why would anyone do this? "My life's hard and I need to drink." Jesus, no you don't. If your life is so "♥♥♥♥ty" because you father took away your phone, or your mother grounded you for disrespecting her, you deserve it. You're an arrogant teenager who needs to realize that you're far less important than you think you are and you deserve punishment for disrespecting your parents. Alcohol and drugs are detrimental to your body, because they've been linked to liver and brain cell loss, also considering they're a "life-line" to any semblance of a normal life you might have once had and you depend on it. You want to forget about the world, so you get wasted/blazed. But any half-decent person will realize that you need pain to get through the world.

Most of your post I went ahead and am choosing not to respond to, however I am starting here with things like "also considering they're a "life-line" to any semblance of a normal life you might have once had and you depend on it. You want to forget about the world, so you get wasted/blazed. But any half-decent person will realize that you need pain to get through the world" do not make sense to me. Not everyone who does drugs is looking for an escape from reality.

And if there's one thing I can't stand, it's when someone says, "It's your life, do what you want with it." What the hell is wrong with you? People shoot people, and it's okay, since "they do what they want to". What kind of ♥♥♥♥ed-up morality is that? A drunk driver can kill innocent passerby? Drinking's okay since it can lead to a spiraling depression and cirrhosis? A man can rape a woman since it's "their life?" Drugs are okay since they mess with your brain? Drugs are illegal for a reason, as is alcohol until you're old enough. People need to be held responsible for their actions.

Half right. Generally they also add (or imply) so long as you're not infringing on other peoples' rights and freedom. Everything you listed is clearly infringing on other people and isn't right.

Do you also believe that homosexuals should not have relationships, or that it should be illegal to practice Buddhism? These, just like drug use, are not inherently infringing on others' rights.

(As a side note, some drugs such as Marijuana are basically illegal because white people of the early 20th century didn't like black people, and continues to be illegal because of misinformation and the harm it'd cause to corporations)

Pot is harmless in controlled quantities (Beneficial, actually), and it's a ♥♥♥♥-ton of fun. Seriously, the war on pot is nothing more than the war on fun waged by the ignorant and the cowardly.

---------- Post added at 10:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------

Also, the whole "pot makes you unfit to drive" ♥♥♥♥ is ludicrous. Sure, if you're smoking copious amounts there's going to be an issue (I wouldn't doubt you'd get a heart attack from drinking copious amounts of coffee too, though), but I've ridden front-seat with drivers who were high dozens of times; the only time I've ever been in a wreck was not due to the driver's high-ness, but due to the fact he was trying to take a hit from a man-sized bong while driving. That's more of an issue of common sense than anything, really.

Originally Posted by kymeric

Portugal legalized all drugs and after a breif upswing drug used dropped to almost nothing. Those that cant handle their $#!^ kill themselves off pretty quick.

For the sake of clarity, I'd like to express that the reason Portugal has experienced a decrease in levels of recreational drug use is *not* because of a rash of overdoses.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

So my question to you is, why would anyone do this? "My life's hard and I need to drink." Jesus, no you don't. If your life is so "♥♥♥♥ty" because you father took away your phone, or your mother grounded you for disrespecting her, you deserve it. You're an arrogant teenager who needs to realize that you're far less important than you think you are and you deserve punishment for disrespecting your parents. Alcohol and drugs are detrimental to your body, because they've been linked to liver and brain cell loss, also considering they're a "life-line" to any semblance of a normal life you might have once had and you depend on it. You want to forget about the world, so you get wasted/blazed. But any half-decent person will realize that you need pain to get through the world.

And if there's one thing I can't stand, it's when someone says, "It's your life, do what you want with it." What the hell is wrong with you? People shoot people, and it's okay, since "they do what they want to". What kind of ♥♥♥♥ed-up morality is that? A drunk driver can kill innocent passerby? Drinking's okay since it can lead to a spiraling depression and cirrhosis? A man can rape a woman since it's "their life?" Drugs are okay since they mess with your brain? Drugs are illegal for a reason, as is alcohol until you're old enough. People need to be held responsible for their actions.

(I'm not using "you" like I'm calling anyone out, I'm using it in the general term.)

Your post seems to mainly focus on the negative effects of alcohol abuse (and there are of course many), but you use these statements as a jumping off point to branching criticisms against mind-altering substances in general. No two chemicals are exactly the same in effect and a given substance is not detrimental simply by virtue of having a psychoactive effect.

That being said, while sweeping generalizations about drug abuse amongst teenagers and young adults are certainly fun to throw out, your statements are so hypothetical they are rendered moot. You are attacking a straw man throughout that entire paragraph.

As far as the statement "it's your life you can do what you want with it" is concerned, your arguments are not considering the fact that recreational drug use is a victimless crime, when done responsibly. Of course there are those short-sighted individuals who put both themselves and others in harm's way by driving while intoxicated, but I would wager that for every one of those fools there may be several people who socially drink and have never caused harm to anyone. I would also like to point out that your examples regarding rape and murder are wholly and totally out of context and the topic at hand is in no way related. It is possible to drink responsibly, but of course there is no such thing as responsible murder or responsible assault. The examples are frankly ridiculous and do not fit the context.

Finally, I would like to say that the statement that drugs are illegal for a reason is incorrect. Of the schedule one drugs, you would be surprised to learn that a good majority of them are less detrimental to our bodies than alcohol or tobacco. This is not to say that alcohol and tobacco should be made illegal, only that there needs to occur a radical paradigm shift amongst legislators and policymakers if we can ever hope to have a drug policy that is in fact rooted in logic.