Sex, Gender and Identification

There shouldn't be a symbol for gender.


There should, however, be a symbol for whether you have a dick or a pussy. I couldn't care less what you "identify" as, it just makes talking to you a hell of a lot easier if I know what set of genitalia you have.

The whole idea of "gender" is bull♥♥♥♥, and so is people "identifying" themselves as something else. It is a concept that should never have been invented and certainly should not be used by anyone. Even transgendered people.


In my book, if you have a cock and no boobs (unless they are moobs) you are a guy, and if you don't have a cock you are girl.

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

There shouldn't be a symbol for gender.


There should, however, be a symbol for whether you have a dick or a pussy. I couldn't care less what you "identify" as, it just makes talking to you a hell of a lot easier if I know what set of genitalia you have.

The whole idea of "gender" is bull♥♥♥♥, and so is people "identifying" themselves as something else. It is a concept that should never have been invented and certainly should not be used by anyone. Even transgendered people.


In my book, if you have a cock and no boobs (unless they are moobs) you are a guy, and if you don't have a cock you are girl.

this is an incredibly intolerant, transphobic/cissexist thing to say. What does it matter what genitals a person has? That's not at all relevant to who a person is. What matters is how a person identifies themselves. Identity is important. Identity is who you are.

Originally Posted by Lysis

this is an incredibly intolerant, transphobic/cissexist thing to say. What does it matter what genitals a person has? That's not at all relevant to who a person is. What matters is how a person identifies themselves. Identity is important. Identity is who you are.

I'm pretty sure that she was joking...

I think you misunderstood her. I think she's saying that if you define gender as "a label for the social expectations for each sex respectively," then it should never have been adopted. She just wants a symbol for sex.

Originally Posted by Artemis

I'm pretty sure that she was joking...

I wouldn't be so sure. It's not exactly an uncommon sentiment.

Originally Posted by SkullDude

I think you misunderstood her. I think she's saying that if you define gender as "a label for the social expectations for each sex respectively," then it should never have been adopted. She just wants a symbol for sex.

no, what she's quite clearly saying is that identification with a gender that doesn't match your sex (that is, transgenderism) should not exist and is, I quote, "bull♥♥♥♥".

Originally Posted by SkullDude

I think you misunderstood her. I think she's saying that if you define gender as "a label for the social expectations for each sex respectively," then it should never have been adopted. She just wants a symbol for sex.

Yes, that is what I was saying.

no, what she's quite clearly saying is that identification with a gender that doesn't match your sex (that is, transgenderism) should not exist and is, I quote, "bull♥♥♥♥".

You are wrong.

I believe gender labels are utterly stupid, and gender is a concept that should never have been invented.

Only reason I've got one up is so people can figure out which goddamn pronouns to use when referring to me


it apparently does ♥♥♥♥-all anyway so i'm debating on takin' it down

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

Yes, that is what I was saying.

You are wrong.

no I'm not. You outright stated that transgenderism was bull♥♥♥♥.

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

The whole idea of "gender" is bull♥♥♥♥, and so is people "identifying" themselves as something else.

people "identifying" themselves as some other gender than the one that matches their assigned sex is the very definition of transgenderism.

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

I believe gender labels are utterly stupid, and gender is a concept that should never have been invented.

I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gender is. It's more than just a label, it's a part of your identity. People don't just pick and choose their gender any more than they do any other part of their identity. It's a part of who you are. You saying stuff like:

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

I couldn't care less what you "identify" as, it just makes talking to you a hell of a lot easier if I know what set of genitalia you have.

and:

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

In my book, if you have a cock and no boobs (unless they are moobs) you are a guy, and if you don't have a cock you are girl.

is intolerant and discriminatory against anyone whose very identity doesn't fit in with your expectations of what it should be. People like Red don't choose to identify as a gender that doesn't match their sex, just for the f*cking hell of it. It's a fundamental part of who she is. She's female, regardless of her genitalia and regardless of what you choose to believe about gender.

You still don't get what I am trying to say. I believe all humans should be equal, and gender is a concept that breeds inequality amongst our species. If there was no concept of gender, no concept of "gender roles", then society would be a lot more tolerant.

If you are born with a penis, but you felt you wanted a vagina more, then you could easily have an operation just to switch (if we are talking about the modern day at least). There would be no stigma attached to it. If you felt more like the opposite sex inside, then that would be completely fine as there would be no idea of "well, you are male, therefore you must be really macho".

All I want is a more equal and tolerant society. I imagine you want the same?

of course I want a more equal and tolerant society.

but if that's what you want, you're going about it the wrong way. You're being intolerant against transgendered people and intolerance is certainly no way to breed tolerance.

I'm not being intolerant of transgendered people, lol.


If there was no concept of gender, then there would be no intolerance at all. I don't know how clearer I can make it to you.

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

I'm not being intolerant of transgendered people, lol.

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

The whole idea of "gender" is bull♥♥♥♥, and so is people "identifying" themselves as something else.

you don't think calling transgenderism "bull♥♥♥♥" is intolerant?

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

I couldn't care less what you "identify" as, it just makes talking to you a hell of a lot easier if I know what set of genitalia you have.

you don't think refusing to recognize a person's identity is intolerant?

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

In my book, if you have a cock and no boobs (unless they are moobs) you are a guy, and if you don't have a cock you are girl.

you don't think refusing to understand that perhaps a person's identity isn't intrinsically tied to their genitalia is intolerant?

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

If there was no concept of gender, then there would be no intolerance at all. I don't know how clearer I can make it to you.

you're not advocating the abolition of gender, you're refusing to recognize a person's identity if it isn't cisgendered.

Originally Posted by Lysis

you don't think refusing to understand that perhaps a person's identity isn't intrinsically tied to their genitalia is intolerant?

I'm of the same mind as Dovahkiin that it doesn't matter to me what you identify as.

I think I've had enough to drink to make an ass of myself in SD. Redirect something at me.

What's so great about gender that requires you to defend it so much?
Let me reiterate, gender is (to me) a concept that merely causes inequality and intolerance.

you're not advocating the abolition of gender, you're refusing to recognize a person's identity if it isn't cisgendered.

Right, sure.

Um.

How many times do I have to say that I AM advocating the abolition of gender? To me, it is a terrible concept that breeds inequality. And I wish it was never invented.

Originally Posted by Golddron Rex

I'm of the same mind as Dovahkiin that it doesn't matter to me what you identify as.

well then, I don't care about your identity either. Instead of treating you based on who you actually are, I'll treat you the way I want to based on my own opinions of who I think you should be.

does that sound right?

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

What's so great about gender that requires you to defend it so much?

I'm defending a person's right to their identity. I'm defending people like Red and her right to consider herself as much a woman as you probably consider yourself, regardless of the physical shape of the body she was born with.

Let me reiterate, gender is (to me) a concept that merely causes inequality and intolerance.

trying to fit people into gender roles and gender expectations leads to inequality and intolerance, but gender identity does no such thing. Instead, refusing to recognize a person's identity, that is intolerance.

Right, sure.

Um.

How many times do I have to say that I AM advocating the abolition of gender? To me, it is a terrible concept that breeds inequality. And I wish it was never invented.

people don't have control over their identity. It's not something they invent, it's something that is a part of who they are.

Ah! I love it when subjects are discussed deeply. Not saying it's bad, on the contrary, it's intriguing.

Originally Posted by Lysis

well then, I don't care about your identity either. Instead of treating you based on who you actually are, I'll treat you the way I want to based on my own opinions of who I think you should be.

does that sound right?

Well, it would except for the bold part.

But I meant it more as I treat people equally REGARDLESS of how they identify their gender as.

Lysis, you're making something out of nothing. Keep the SD crap in SD.

Originally Posted by Tallgeese

Lysis, you're making something out of nothing. Keep the SD crap in SD.

she has insulted me and every other transgendered person on this forum. If you think that's nothing then you are just as guilty of insult as she is.

You transgendered, Lysis? I didn't know that.