Sex, Gender and Identification

Originally Posted by DarKnite92

I never even feel empathy for those that get murdered after they trick others. Then there's this whole outcry of the intolerance? Do they not realize that the victim was a rapist?

That's quite possibly the most disgusting thing I've ever read here, and no, I'm not talking about those 'trickster transgenders' whom you seem to think are rapists. What in the actual ♥♥♥♥.

And Chozo - I quite enjoy having no gender selected (robots are too cool to have genders anyway). Unless you know me/are planning to meet me at some point, it doesn't make any real difference unless you actually do make assumptions about people due to their gender (however slight they may be). On the internet, gender should be the least of your concerns since you have no real way of knowing who people are, or what they're like at all. Unless you're anonymous, then you can pretty much dig the dirt on just about anyone, lol. Main point is, don't get emotionally involved in people you haven't even met, especially if you think they're 'hot gurlz'. Never bodes well, because it's equally likely they're not what you expect at all, least of all if they have a dick instead.

Originally Posted by Crash Man

That's quite possibly the most disgusting thing I've ever read here, and no, I'm not talking about those 'trickster transgenders' whom you seem to think are rapists. What in the actual ♥♥♥♥.

Murder is still wrong, but if you trick someone like that I don't know what you're expecting.
"Damn bro, you caught me slipping!"

I consider them worse rapists then Statutory ones.

For the rest of the transgenders, I don't think these people are deserving of anything directed towards them. Life is already stacked against them, and nobody deserves problems for their lifestyle.

But, part of freedom is to accept the consequences of the actions. What do you think of people who do such? Is it perfectly okay for you that this goes on?

Originally Posted by DarKnite92

Murder is still wrong, but if you trick someone like that I don't know what you're expecting.
"Damn bro, you caught me slipping!"

I consider them worse rapists then Statutory ones.

For the rest of the transgenders, I don't think these people are deserving of anything directed towards them. Life is already stacked against them, and nobody deserves problems for their lifestyle.

But, part of freedom is to accept the consequences of the actions. What do you think of people who do such? Is it perfectly okay for you that this goes on?

What transexual does that? Do you have any source/news articles outside of comedy movies?

Originally Posted by Twilight King

What transexual does that? Do you have any source/news articles outside of comedy movies?

?

It was a common thing during the 90s for it to be big on the tabloids. Scares like that were the Satanic Ritual Abuse of the Clinton era. Only this really did happen.


The end of it was when two homosexual men had molested and murdered a boy in Middle America/ The South, where these cases tended to happen, and there was a huge media blackout on it. There was a backlash from people who felt like their values where being assaulted and they were being singled out.

EDIT: The 90s were more child/ minority scare based. Hard to define them, but tended to be sensational delimma. Still goes on today, spun off of SRAbuse.

No doubt it still goes on today. I assume it's very rare, and normally doesn't lead to retalitiation. I never said it was common, just that I don't feel sorry for those who suffer consequences from doing so.

Darknite, are you seriously calling transgendered people rapists? I honestly cannot comprehend what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Lysis

that's not at all what I said. I said not recognizing a person's identity is a step backwards.

That also is not what I said.

this is true and, once again, has nothing to do with my argument.

Cool beans.

gender identities don't lead to any such thing. The psychological concept of gender and the social construct are distinct. They're not the same thing.

my argument, as it has been this entire time, is that a person should have a right to their self-identity and that refusing to recognize it is disrespectful and intolerant.

I have, funnily enough, never said that I want to refuse to recognise people's identity. My whole argument has been that I wish it never occured in the first place. If it never existed, no one would miss it.

If it never existed, no one would miss it.

Isn't this a bit redundant though? If ANYTHING didn't exist, nobody would miss it.

Do you advocate getting rid of it?

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

That also is not what I said.

you said it here:

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

The whole idea of "gender" is bull♥♥♥♥, and so is people "identifying" themselves as something else.

and here:

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

I couldn't care less what you "identify" as, it just makes talking to you a hell of a lot easier if I know what set of genitalia you have.

and also here:

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

In my book, if you have a cock and no boobs (unless they are moobs) you are a guy, and if you don't have a cock you are girl.

all three of these statements have you declaring that a person's identity does not matter to you. Now maybe that's not what you actually meant to say. In that case, think about what you're saying before you say it. There's really no way to interpret these statements that isn't reeking of transphobia.

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

The whole idea of "gender" is bull♥♥♥♥, and so is people "identifying" themselves as something else.

^Perhaps this is the issue. When you said "something else", it made it seem as if you were addressing people who "identified as something else", i.e. people who identify as a gender that didn't match their sex.

And while I think you meant that the general idea of gender is "bull♥♥♥♥", it looks as if you're calling "people who identify as something else" bull♥♥♥♥ or something.

Originally Posted by Lysis

all three of these statements have you declaring that a person's identity does not matter to you. Now maybe that's not what you actually meant to say. In that case, think about what you're saying before you say it. There's really no way to interpret these statements that isn't reeking of transphobia.

Right.

People's identity DOES matter to me, and I apologise if you have gotten the wrong idea. Especially considering I have been trying to say this since the start of our little merry go round of serious discussion.

My entire point is that the concept of gender, if residing in a state of non existence, would make society a far better place. There would be far less stereotyping, less bigotry, and no "gender roles", that also pisses off a great deal of non-transgender people.

I will, however, say that people identifying as whatever merely enforces this terrible concept. Not only transgender people, but others who identify themselves as the corresponding gender to their sex, as prescribed by society.

Originally Posted by Dovahkiin

My entire point is that the concept of gender, if residing in a state of non existence, would make society a far better place. There would be far less stereotyping, less bigotry, and no "gender roles", that also pisses off a great deal of non-transgender people.

I understand that, but you're missing my point. This entire time my argument has been with the statements you made which were degrading to transgendered people. All this other stuff is irrelevant.

I will, however, say that people identifying as whatever merely enforces this terrible concept. Not only transgender people, but others who identify themselves as the corresponding gender to their sex, as prescribed by society.

but that's not how identity works. People don't choose their identity. It's not something you can pick, or something you can change, it's just who you are.

Originally Posted by Lysis

all three of these statements have you declaring that a person's identity does not matter to you. Now maybe that's not what you actually meant to say. In that case, think about what you're saying before you say it. There's really no way to interpret these statements that isn't reeking of transphobia.

Stop accusing people of things you believe subjectively. I understand everything she's saying, loud and clear.

Tabby: I only wanna know if they are male or female physically, everything else is their choice and is none of my concern.

Now let's see here...

Lysis: By saying you don't care about genders you don't care about transgendered people. You reek of transphobia.



No, seriously, enough of your prejudice. All this negativity is pissing me off just by reading it.

Originally Posted by Tallgeese

Stop accusing people of things you believe subjectively. I understand everything she's saying, loud and clear.

No, seriously, enough of your prejudice. All this negativity is pissing me off just by reading it.

I'm not accusing anybody of anything. She outright stated that people identifying as genders that do not match their sex (that is, the entire concept of transgenderism) is bull♥♥♥♥. Then she said that she cares more about a person's genitals than about their identity. These are transphobic statements, loud and clear.

Originally Posted by Lysis

I'm not accusing anybody of anything. She outright stated that people identifying as genders that do not match their sex (that is, the entire concept of transgenderism) is bull♥♥♥♥. Then she said that she cares more about a person's genitals than about their identity. These are transphobic statements, loud and clear.

No, I've kept up with this thread from day one and have been on the same page as her. She doesn't care about any form of gender or gender identity at all. Because if there were new "gender identities" transgenders can identify with, imagine in a 100 years where select stereotypical transgender identifies have become dominant and anyone that identifies differently is discriminated against. That's what she is arguing against. She wants ALL OF IT gone.

She is philosophizing about something on a completely different level and you're just getting hung up on your identity today. Think about it: are you really doing anything differently than the creators of the masculine and feminine genders?


Oh, and by the way: no matter how you say it, there is no other way to interpret your messages as accusatory of transphobia.

what part about people do not pick their gender identity do you seriously not understand?

What part of "there is no need to choose any identity as it enforces stereotypes" do you not understand? Is my English that horrible?

nobody CHOOSES their identity. Identities do not enforce stereotypes.

I fully understand that Lysis. I accept is and also agree with you about it. People DO NOT chose their identity.


HOWEVER what I am saying is that it would be a damn sight better if it didn't exist at all. What I want is a system were gender identities DO NOT exist. Since that would be better.

Also Radek, you are completely right. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Lysis

nobody CHOOSES their identity. Identities do not enforce stereotypes.

You don't understand. Identity is always chosen. It's not some innate thing. If you're talking about "being yourself", then that's what not choosing or identifying with anything is, being yourself.

Anyway, I'm done. I've conveyed my message here as a member and as a mod.

Originally Posted by Tallgeese

Stop accusing people of things you believe subjectively. I understand everything she's saying, loud and clear.

Tabby: I only wanna know if they are male or female physically, everything else is their choice and is none of my concern.

Now let's see here...

Lysis: By saying you don't care about genders you don't care about transgendered people. You reek of transphobia.



No, seriously, enough of your prejudice. All this negativity is pissing me off just by reading it.

Enough of your gorram prejudice, thank you kindly.

If gender stereotypes don't matter then why care about physical sex?


What has been said, and continues to be said, is that trans people are either deluded, liars, or attention-seekers. That all that should matter is what sex organs you were born with, and that anything else is "bull♥♥♥♥".

That is prejudice.

Asking that people not call you a deluded liar is not prejudice.


Edit: Dovakiin: Given that gender identities do exist and appear to be fundamental, do you seriously advocate the removal of the entire idea? 'Cause that means denying the rights of people to get trans surgery or legal protection against discrimination.

Further, do you honestly believe that gender identity is something people just try on for fun?

Again, we're not talking about stereotypes. Those are separate.

Originally Posted by John

Enough of your gorram prejudice, thank you kindly.

No, enough of yours. Your views insult every feminist in the world in the name of transgenders.

If gender stereotypes don't matter then why care about physical sex?

Why not? Isn't subjectivity funny?

What has been said, and continues to be said, is that trans people are either deluded, liars, or attention-seekers. That all that should matter is what sex organs you were born with, and that anything else is "bull♥♥♥♥".

That is prejudice.

It was worded funny but I understood it completely. Summarized it for you folk a few posts back and she agreed that's what she meant. I never saw any of this anti-trans behavior you are talking about.