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Old 01-01-2011, 03:26 PM
Bill Bill is a male United States Bill is offline
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An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

This is half-baked, but I was thinking, would it be possible/desirable to develop technology that allowed gay couples to have biological children?

Biologically, the biggest hurdle to overcome would be the sex chromosomes. Female couples (XX/XX) could only produce girls and male couples (XY/XY) could produce boy (XY), girl (XX), or a defect (YY). In males, YY would obviously not be viable, so that is at least one ethical problem.

But, aside from the technicality of sex chromosomes, this does seem biologically plausible (and admittedly, interesting) to me. There is nothing "gender special" about the other 22 chromosomes, so if you could remove the nucleus from a donor egg and replace it with the nucleus from one of the fathers (or in the case of a female couple, replace the DNA of a donor sperm with the DNA from one of the mothers--which I imagine would be much harder), it seems in theory that you could get a normal, viable child with two biological parents from the same sex.

So, one aspect of this discussion is the biological plausibility of this idea.

The second aspect is that we assume it could be done and then ask should it? The first obvious question would have to be "is there a market for this?" Do gay couples want their own biological children? Beyond this simple question, it becomes a typical discussion on the ethics of genetic manipulation/cloning/etc.

(Oh, I should mention that these would obviously be in vitro births, although female couples could opt for a live birth if they wished).
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:43 PM
1984 1984 is a male United States 1984 is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

In my opinion, nature's reason for same-sex couples is to allow two organisms in a species to love but to prevent over-sexual reproduction. Sort of like a population cap.
If a gay couple really wanted to have children, I'm sure it is possible, but adoption is a better course as it is less risky. Even different sex couples should adopt.
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:50 PM
Teekay Teekay is a male United States Teekay is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

I'm not going to debate whether or not it can be done, because in all honesty I don't know, though I really do wish it could be.


I find it saddening that two gay/lesbian individuals who love each other very much are restricted in terms of having children. The only options available off the top of my head are adoption and in vitro fertilization. With the former option, traits from neither parent are passed to the child, because obviously that child will have been born from two totally different parents. With the latter option, half the child's DNA comes from only one parent while the other half comes from someone else entirely. Either way it's not entirely fair to couples who want to have their OWN child together but can't due to being of the same gender.

There really is no reason why gay/lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to do this. They can be just as great of parents as straight couples can, and can love their children with the same care and devotion. So if this can ever be done, it should.

(this is of course assuming it can be done risk-free)
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:06 PM
Nox Nox is a male United States Nox is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

What's wrong with adoption? It's a lot cheaper and would totally ease up the corruption and abuse stories in child services and foster homes.
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:08 PM
Teekay Teekay is a male United States Teekay is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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What's wrong with adoption? It's a lot cheaper and would totally ease up the corruption that faces child services and foster homes.
Nothing wrong with it, in fact I think it's a great thing to do.
But it doesn't change the fact that some people would want children of their own blood, which is a special bond adoption unfortunately can't offer.
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:15 PM
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

we're all made by a man and a woman - we need both halves


if we were made by two men, we'd have super powers


and that's unfair
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:49 PM
Bolero of Fire Bolero of Fire is a male United States Bolero of Fire is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

I would rather adopt then risk a child having birth defects. Not to mention it would cost a lot of money. Now if in the future there is no risk then perhaps people would stat trying it.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:24 PM
Drengr_Hogosha Drengr_Hogosha is a male United States Drengr_Hogosha is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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we're all made by a man and a woman - we need both halves


if we were made by two men, we'd have super powers


and that's unfair
ROLFMAO! So epic!

But in all serious, if it can be done in a practical and safe way, homosexual couples are entitled to the option. And on adoption, everyone should be encouraged to adopt. Maybe even some of the proceeds from such medical procedures could go towards promoting and advertising adoption.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:03 PM
God of Humility God of Humility is a male Canada God of Humility is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

If we could develop a way of letting people of the same sex reproduce together without any notable additional risk, I'm all for developping the technology and encouraging it to the same level as opposite sex reproduction.

Adoption should be encouraged for everyone (way more than it is now) but permitting everyone to have biological offsprings should in no way be stopped.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:05 AM
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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I'm not going to debate whether or not it can be done, because in all honesty I don't know, though I really do wish it could be.


I find it saddening that two gay/lesbian individuals who love each other very much are restricted in terms of having children. The only options available off the top of my head are adoption and in vitro fertilization. With the former option, traits from neither parent are passed to the child, because obviously that child will have been born from two totally different parents. With the latter option, half the child's DNA comes from only one parent while the other half comes from someone else entirely. Either way it's not entirely fair to couples who want to have their OWN child together but can't due to being of the same gender.

There really is no reason why gay/lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to do this. They can be just as great of parents as straight couples can, and can love their children with the same care and devotion. So if this can ever be done, it should.

(this is of course assuming it can be done risk-free)
By the same token, isn't it also saddening that we can't breathe underwater or fly? They aren't abilities the human body has by default as well.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:12 AM
God of Humility God of Humility is a male Canada God of Humility is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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By the same token, isn't it also saddening that we can't breathe underwater or fly? They aren't abilities the human body has by default as well.
I don't see the problem with that. If we had the technology to make humans fly by themselves or breathe underwater, wouldn't you say it would be a good idea? Its not like it is detrimental to anything.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:16 AM
era era is a male Viet Nam era is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

Pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


default mode sucks.



more splicing of chromosomes plz. thx.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:22 AM
Double A Double A is a male New Zealand Double A is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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By the same token, isn't it also saddening that we can't breathe underwater or fly?
Somewhat so, actually.

But then again, we have planes and submarines/scuba gear. Whereas we don't have a method of homosexual reproduction, from what I know.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:10 AM
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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If the sexes could both reproduce children without the need of the other sex, wouldn't it just be better to get rid of gender all together?
I'm strongly against removing/combining genders. That's just...wrong.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:27 AM
Archon United States Archon is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

It's completely and utterly unnatural. I do not want to live in a world where we are forced to..."bond" with the same gender.

Just a thought, wouldn't that make two different homosexual species?
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:57 AM
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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What about using a pigs heart to save a man's life?

if there was only one gender, the concept of gender would not exist, thus anyone could love any one, and reproduce with anyone! There would not be such a thing as gay or straight.
I support using a pigs heart or even a stem cells to save a man's life.

If there was only one gender, then the concept of male and female would not exist, but technically it's still a single gender. If this singled gendered person could successfully reproduce into more of the same without side effects, wouldn't that be considered a different species?
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:09 AM
Drengr_Hogosha Drengr_Hogosha is a male United States Drengr_Hogosha is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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Thirdly, if there was only one gender, the concept of gender would not exist, thus anyone could love any one, and reproduce with anyone! There would not be such a thing as gay or straight.
Interesting concept. I think it would be very beneficial and practical to the survival of the human race.

My only concern is, what would happen to our current gender roles? Obligatory gender roles fulfill many needs of society, such as home defense (most men take on that role, though in a few cases women have) and child bearing (currently, women must obviously take this role), the ways of courtship (even in homosexual couples, it is a common practice to have one partner be dominant over the other) etc. How would we go about choosing mates if we are now exactly one and the same? And once we have found a mate, which parent would decide to risk their lives defending their family, and which parent would decide to bear the child, and how might all the other responsibilities be divided? It would leave a great deal for freely willed motivation and devotion alone to conquer.

As we have progressed as a society, life has gotten easier. Not many of us are as motivated and dedicated to the more difficult things in life as we once were. Would we have the determination to make such a drastic lifestyle change and willingly embrace the monumentous challenges that come along with it? Until everyone can answer 'yes' in total and indomintable confidence, I would say we are not ready to make such changes. We could, however, make this a future a goal for our human race, though we should pursue it with nothing less than extreme caution.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:12 AM
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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But not eliminating gender to end discrimination based on sex and sexual orientation? As well as grant every human the possibility to reproduce?

Technically yes, there would be only one sex. I guess you could say we'd be a different species, why is this a bad thing though? We could be posthuman or transhuman, in essence a better species.
I suppose it comes down to the motives. Using science to save a man's life? Great. Using science to perfect the human race? Depends what you mean by "perfection".

I prefer to be with a women for the rest of my life. Not a man. Not a mutant. Perhaps if we all are changed into one, perfect, manwoman...I just don't like the idea of it. Creepy as hell.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:28 AM
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

Alright, here are my thoughts on the matter; If there is a single gender, if don correctly, then that would mean the thoughts of a male and female would all be in a single person.When two get married they are sharing a bond and are supposed to be "one flesh". Two people acting as one.

Now, what would the motive be to get married if we are, literally, a single person that shares both traits? Lust? There no longer is a "missing half" or a soul mate.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:41 AM
Drengr_Hogosha Drengr_Hogosha is a male United States Drengr_Hogosha is offline
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Re: An Idea I had (could be stupid) related to Gay Couples and Children

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We wouldn't have segregated gender roles, everyone would do everything. You would choose mates based upon their physical attractiveness and personality. It's quite incorrect that you think we wouldn't be attracted to each other. To say that is to say homosexuality doesn't exist.

Further sex does not dictate everything in ones personality.

If either of you want to read more, this is the article on Transhumanism.
I misphrased. I didn't necessarily mean 'choose', for I understand that we would still be attracted to one another, but rather 'date'. Gender plays a large role in the practice of actually becoming someone's partner, even with homosexuals, who will often have one partner assume the male role and the other the female role.

And with 'everyone would do everything', it is easier said than done. Many people only do things because they think they have to. If someone else can do something, we often think 'oh, I don't have to do it, because they will'. It takes a lot of personal motivation to overcome apathy and laziness, especially when we have excuses for them.

And I'm sure there are innumerably more psychological and sociological complexities with going from at least two genders to only one. Also, it is always beneficial to be cautious. Have you ever read The Giver? The security of sameness is not always the best option.

And I will definitely check out the article
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