Calendar Awards Members List FAQ
Advertisement

Reply
$ LinkBack Thread Tools
 
  #1 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-01-2010, 11:40 PM
KingOfHeart KingOfHeart is offline
www.youtube.com/user/GUKingOfHeart?
Join Date: Dec 2005
View Posts: 2,871
Question Bye, Bye Christmas

Every year I hear the same complaint. The word Christmas. They file some complaint/law suit against some important building that has the word Christmas or a Christmas symbol.

In my hometown we have this Tower on our mountain (very tall hill). Every year around Christmas they have a light a Christmas Star (Christmas lights which form the shape of a star).

Someone complained about it, and it got taken down. It's been up for many, many years. Sometimes they don't always win, but given enough time, they will. When will it stop? How far will the complaints go.

At this rate, one day someone will complain about the holiday Christmas and the holiday itself will no longer be an official holiday. Yep, I believe someone is going to get Christmas itself to be taken away.

This will be a sad day if this ever does happen.


Sick of these complaints? Think Christmas itself will ever go?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 12:38 AM
Lysis Lysis is a male Antarctica Lysis is online now
girl, you and I will die unbelievers, bound to the tracks of the train.
Send a message via Skype™ to Lysis
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington State
View Posts: 19,252
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

why would it even matter if the government officially recognized Christmas as a holiday would that really stop you from celebrating it?
__________________
Through the fire and through the flames
You won't even say your name
Only 'I am that I am'
But who could ever live that way?
Ya hey, ya hey."
-
index / codex / annex

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 12:54 AM
John John is a male Canada John is offline
PReSEnT DaY... PReSEnT TImE! HAhAHahAha!
Send a message via Skype™ to John
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Canada
View Posts: 21,298
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfHeart View Post
Every year I hear the same complaint. The word Christmas. They file some complaint/law suit against some important building that has the word Christmas or a Christmas symbol.
Who is "they"?

Quote:
In my hometown we have this Tower on our mountain (very tall hill). Every year around Christmas they have a light a Christmas Star (Christmas lights which form the shape of a star).

Someone complained about it, and it got taken down. It's been up for many, many years. Sometimes they don't always win, but given enough time, they will. When will it stop? How far will the complaints go.
Until all religious celebrations are recognized by governments or none are. I don't know the details of your particular story, but if it was a government building then it really cannot endorse Christianity over any other religion. If it's a private building then it's entirely up to them what they do, and no one would be able to sue them over it.

As for eliminating Christmas: It's the biggest holiday of the year in the western world. It's in no danger of going anywhere. Sol Invictus, on the other hand...

Quote:
At this rate, one day someone will complain about the holiday Christmas and the holiday itself will no longer be an official holiday. Yep, I believe someone is going to get Christmas itself to be taken away.
I'd be all for that. I'm opposed to government recognition of Christmas and Easter, as they are explicitly religious holidays. I'd be fine with winter and spring holidays at the same time, even with essentially the same decorations, but the religious aspects cannot stay in anything directly endorsed by the government.


However, I'm not anti-Christmas, nor do I wish for the holiday to disappear. What I want is an unbiased government that accepts Eid, Saturnalia, Samhein, Yom Kippur, Diwali, etc. as all equally valid and that refuses to elevate any of them above the others.
__________________
"But I don't want to go among mad people."
"Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?"
"You must be, or you wouldn't have come here."

Public Key ID: 057420A1
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 01:20 AM
Flames of Valor Flames of Valor is a male United States Flames of Valor is offline
Sapere aude
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: America
View Posts: 5,312
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
I'd be all for that. I'm opposed to government recognition of Christmas and Easter, as they are explicitly religious holidays. I'd be fine with winter and spring holidays at the same time, even with essentially the same decorations, but the religious aspects cannot stay in anything directly endorsed by the government.


However, I'm not anti-Christmas, nor do I wish for the holiday to disappear. What I want is an unbiased government that accepts Eid, Saturnalia, Samhein, Yom Kippur, Diwali, etc. as all equally valid and that refuses to elevate any of them above the others.
Why can't the government simply endorse the holiday secularly? Surely there is more secular (or at least non-Christian) tradition surrounding Christmas these days than religious.

I hardly consider it a religious holiday, both both generally and personally.

I take no issue with a federal recognition of Christmas - or Easter for that matter.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 02:03 AM
Red Red is offline
heart of a lion
Send a message via Skype™ to Red
Join Date: Oct 2008
View Posts: 15,922
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysis View Post
why would it even matter if the government officially recognized Christmas as a holiday would that really stop you from celebrating it?
This. My birthday isn't a national holiday (though it ****ing should be) and nothing stops me from celebrating it. Same goes for the majority of people in the US.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 06:56 PM
Luthien Tinuviel Luthien Tinuviel is a female France Luthien Tinuviel is offline
Je me souviens maintenant et toujours
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lorien Forest
View Posts: 1,621
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

I think that in some cases the American government very slightly recognizes other religions' holidays. But, Christmas has become so far commercialized, that it has become the only holiday people here of besides Easter. Not only that, but Christianity is so very popular in America, so and the other religions are a minority. Maybe that is why. I was once in France, moved to the United States for a bit, and now I am back in France again. And from what I saw when I was there was just that in what I said.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 07:22 PM
Bill Bill is a male United States Bill is offline
Am I the only person ____?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Milwaukee, WI
View Posts: 10,020
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Christianity thrives on what it perceives as "persecution," the reality of which, at least in modern America, is completely laughable. Martyrdom only works when you're actually a martyr, like a Christian living in an Islamic society or within the Soviet Union.

Christmas is not in danger by any stretch of the imagination.
Last Edited by Bill; 12-02-2010 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 07:43 PM
Sgt. Pepper Sgt. Pepper is a male Togo Sgt. Pepper is offline
The Artist Formerly Known As Flex Buffchest
Send a message via Skype™ to Sgt. Pepper
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Penisylvania
View Posts: 2,848
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

They won't take Christmas away. They'll just take Christ out of Christmas and it'll just be a season of Black Friday. Those darn 13 year old rebel Atheists.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 07:47 PM
Lysis Lysis is a male Antarctica Lysis is online now
girl, you and I will die unbelievers, bound to the tracks of the train.
Send a message via Skype™ to Lysis
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington State
View Posts: 19,252
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

again, why does it matter to you, personally, what the government does with Christmas? It should have no effect on how you or other people celebrate it. You are free to recognize December 25th as whatever you want and are free to do whatever you like on that day, just as any other.

the government isn't a religious institution and it is bound by the Constitution not to promote any religious beliefs over any other. At the same time, the government does not tell the people what, how, or when to celebrate. The people do that themselves and always will.
__________________
Through the fire and through the flames
You won't even say your name
Only 'I am that I am'
But who could ever live that way?
Ya hey, ya hey."
-
index / codex / annex

Last Edited by Lysis; 12-02-2010 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 09:22 PM
Kiran the Legend Antarctica Kiran the Legend is offline
Battousai the Man Slayer
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Not here
View Posts: 11,919
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

You know what, I don't think Christmas will go away, but think about this... Now, I've said this many times, but I am Roman Catholic, and in New York, public schools (which I don't go to, I go to a Catholic school), they have off on all the Jewish holidays, and Christmas is the only Christian holiday that public school kids have off on, and if the government gets rid of the practice of Christmas as a holiday, these public school kids are going to have school on Christmas. That would be pretty freakin' ridiculous, so I can kind of relate.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 09:43 PM
John John is a male Canada John is offline
PReSEnT DaY... PReSEnT TImE! HAhAHahAha!
Send a message via Skype™ to John
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Canada
View Posts: 21,298
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneHungryHippo View Post
You know what, I don't think Christmas will go away, but think about this... Now, I've said this many times, but I am Roman Catholic, and in New York, public schools (which I don't go to, I go to a Catholic school), they have off on all the Jewish holidays, and Christmas is the only Christian holiday that public school kids have off on, and if the government gets rid of the practice of Christmas as a holiday, these public school kids are going to have school on Christmas. That would be pretty freakin' ridiculous, so I can kind of relate.
Why is it any more ridiculous than students having to go to school on other holy days that happen to not be Christian?
__________________
"But I don't want to go among mad people."
"Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?"
"You must be, or you wouldn't have come here."

Public Key ID: 057420A1
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 10:26 PM
Moosetracks Moosetracks is a male United States Moosetracks is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Oct 2010
View Posts: 1,170
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

I don't see how this would actually affect families that celebrate Christmas, other than maybe the kind of lights they have outside, and the advertising that is going on.
__________________

Opinions on Fi because banner: I really like Fi for her character design but the way she is used in the game is, IMO, part of a direction Nintendo has been going since WW that I disapprove of: having the game play the game for you.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 10:37 PM
Kiran the Legend Antarctica Kiran the Legend is offline
Battousai the Man Slayer
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Not here
View Posts: 11,919
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
Why is it any more ridiculous than students having to go to school on other holy days that happen to not be Christian?
I never did say that it was anymore ridiculous, I'm just saying, due to the fact that Christmas, especially is very commercialized compared to other religious holy days. I just said that it was just ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 10:55 PM
[eRRe] [eRRe] is a male Mexico [eRRe] is offline
Deku Scrub
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Mexico
View Posts: 24
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

We can't possible stop celebrating christmas, it would affect the ecomony in all the world.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 11:01 PM
Lysis Lysis is a male Antarctica Lysis is online now
girl, you and I will die unbelievers, bound to the tracks of the train.
Send a message via Skype™ to Lysis
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington State
View Posts: 19,252
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosetracks View Post
I don't see how this would actually affect families that celebrate Christmas, other than maybe the kind of lights they have outside, and the advertising that is going on.
people will always be free to put up whatever decorations they want on their own private property.
__________________
Through the fire and through the flames
You won't even say your name
Only 'I am that I am'
But who could ever live that way?
Ya hey, ya hey."
-
index / codex / annex

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-02-2010, 11:04 PM
Flames of Valor Flames of Valor is a male United States Flames of Valor is offline
Sapere aude
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: America
View Posts: 5,312
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysis View Post
the government isn't a religious institution and it is bound by the Constitution not to promote any religious beliefs over any other. At the same time, the government does not tell the people what, how, or when to celebrate. The people do that themselves and always will.
I don't consider Christmas religious, so, to me at least, there is no issue.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-03-2010, 12:04 AM
John John is a male Canada John is offline
PReSEnT DaY... PReSEnT TImE! HAhAHahAha!
Send a message via Skype™ to John
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Canada
View Posts: 21,298
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by [eRRe] View Post
We can't possible stop celebrating christmas, it would affect the ecomony in all the world.
The whole world? Um, no. Christianity is the faith of roughly 1/3rd of the world. That's quite a bit, but not all of it by a long shot.
__________________
"But I don't want to go among mad people."
"Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?"
"You must be, or you wouldn't have come here."

Public Key ID: 057420A1
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-03-2010, 12:20 AM
Flames of Valor Flames of Valor is a male United States Flames of Valor is offline
Sapere aude
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: America
View Posts: 5,312
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
The whole world? Um, no. Christianity is the faith of roughly 1/3rd of the world. That's quite a bit, but not all of it by a long shot.
Out of curiosity, in terms of the countries that have the largest economies/make up the majority of the world economy, is Christianity not dominant for the most part?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-03-2010, 12:22 AM
John John is a male Canada John is offline
PReSEnT DaY... PReSEnT TImE! HAhAHahAha!
Send a message via Skype™ to John
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Canada
View Posts: 21,298
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

I'm not sure, but China is an economic superpower now, and it's most certainly not Christian.
__________________
"But I don't want to go among mad people."
"Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?"
"You must be, or you wouldn't have come here."

Public Key ID: 057420A1
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-03-2010, 10:21 AM
Calypso Calypso is a female Calypso is offline
Boobs and Bossa Nova
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fabuland
View Posts: 4,297
Re: Bye, Bye Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essences of Earth View Post
I think that in some cases the American government very slightly recognizes other religions' holidays. But, Christmas has become so far commercialized, that it has become the only holiday people here of besides Easter. Not only that, but Christianity is so very popular in America, so and the other religions are a minority. Maybe that is why. I was once in France, moved to the United States for a bit, and now I am back in France again. And from what I saw when I was there was just that in what I said.
In France, religion is primarily considered a very private institution. There is nothing wrong with being Christian, or Muslim, or Jewish, or Atheist (probably the burgeoning majority among youths today), but you aren't to publicly advertise it (one of the reasons that brought the ban on wearing the burkha in public places). That said, you see Christmas decorations everywhere during this month--in even the smallest villages--but I think the common people rarely attribute it to religion anymore. Just perhaps more of a tradition than anything--heck, it involves going on a drinking binge for like, three days straight, so...perhaps not very holy, I don't know.

So I agree that the religion aspect should be taken out of it (for the public), and for it to be viewed as more of a tradition. Privately, however, people can have all the Baby Jesus' they like.
__________________

3DS Friend code: 1822-0897-4163
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertisement

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46 AM.

Copyright © 2014 Zelda Universe - Privacy Statement -