Your stance on piracy

Forgive me if this isn't exactly SD material. Also, please note I am not asking for downloads or anything, so I'm in full accordance with the forum rules.

Anyway, I would like to hear your stance on piracy of copyrighted material (be it music, movies, games, etc.). Should we make more attempt to stop, and if so, how? I'd also like to know if you think piracy is ok in some circumstance, and what circumstance they are.

Anyway, for my personal spin: While I occasionally download music or game illegally, I as a principal try to avoid pirating as much as possible. I only download music illegally when there is absolutely no way to legally obtain it (for example, game soundtracks that were never released on CD). I only download roms from games that are no longer in production and that nobody is making money off anymore. I never download movies.

As far as prevention goes; I really think we should try harder, especially with movies. I often see people who have home copies of films that are still in theaters; hell, I even saw somebody trying to sell a copy of Zombieland in my school halls the other day.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

I try to not steal my media. If it's a game, I pretty much only do it if nobody's making any money off of it, however I must admit I've downloaded some games onto my R4Ds that were still on production. When it comes to movies, nah. I don't download movies. T.V., I have before but I don't anymore. Annnndd, music. I try my best to not download music. However, if I am poor at the time and I feel as though I need an album AND (conjunction, mind you, conjunction) said musician is filthy stinkin' rich, then I may for the time being, but I usually try to go out and buy the CD afterward, so that it's okay. Now, I'm not saying that someone being rich is justification to steal from them, however, I don't feel as bad if I'm stealing from someone who is rackin' in the dough than say a band like matt & kim who probably need second jobs to live, because they're not that popular.

This is a tough issue for me.

I'll start out by saying that I'm a musician and whenever someone has asked me this question my response has always been "I'm going to go on [insert popular talk show here] wearing a shirt with the Limewire emblem with crossbones behind it!" I have since traded that quote in for something substantially less douche-like.

I'm at a crossroads on this one. It'd be hypocritical of me to say that I do not support it, but at the same time I can understand some of the artist claims that it doesn't help them. Now, understand I do not support people like a certain drummer from a certain popular metal band who whine all the time about it "taking food out of my kids mouth" when he's a friggen gizzilionaire.

Now, for those up and comers who aren't rich yet, downloads can actually hurt their career to some degree. But if you have thirty houses made out of gold plated platinum, you can spare a few kilobytes without having to move into a third world country.

The negative effects of piracy are far too overblown by organizations like the RIAA and MPAA. people downloading movies or music is not going to destroy an industry. While I think that the best way to show support for a game developer or musician is to buy their product, I don't see piracy as a problem unless someone is trying to make money off of bootlegs.

Originally Posted by Tyras

The negative effects of piracy are far too overblown by organizations like the RIAA and MPAA. people downloading movies or music is not going to destroy an industry. While I think that the best way to show support for a game developer or musician is to buy their product, I don't see piracy as a problem unless someone is trying to make money off of bootlegs.

You're pretty much right. But while I don't think it can destroy an industry I do think it can greatly hinder it by preventing new blood from coming in.

Our current copyright system is BROKEN and in need of dramatic revamping... 120 year copyrights are BS.
the entire copyright ordeal is adequate proof of this.

and I can think of half a dozen scenarios where copyright infringement is BENEFICIAL to society on the whole and can potentially even save lives.

Originally Posted by nighthawkx

Our current copyright system is BROKEN and in need of dramatic revamping... 120 year copyrights are BS.
the entire copyright ordeal is adequate proof of this.

and I can think of half a dozen scenarios where copyright infringement is BENEFICIAL to society on the whole and can potentially even save lives.

Ok, I'm not denying you. But I am curious as to when copyright infringement can save lives.

If it's available at a reasonable price I'll buy it.
But I might test it out first...

I buy games off the Wii's VC when I could just download them.
It feels honest, yet stupid.

I draw the line at pirating movies actually. Ive downloaded a ton of music but if its really really good, ill buy the actual CD. (sometimes i cant do that due to lack of money though.) I do download games but only for stuff like SNES/NES/GBA. Basically games that are really hard to get (Japan only titles) or arent in circulation anymore.

I dont like the idea of pirating movies. I dont know why exactly but it just feels wrong to me. I see that some musicians are really against downloading and for the struggling ones, i can understand. But for the big guys, hah! Nah. I usually support a band by going to see them live anyway. I also do download stuff that leaks early to make sure i like it enough to buy it.

I shall ensure that the Jolly Roger will never fly near a British ship again! Blackbeard and his crew of ruffians shall be hung! The Caribbean will be cleared of this scum I swear it!

Piracy is something that I will never do and I don't think others should be doing it but I don't really care one way or the other. Even if the law were to crack down on piracy people are still going to be doing it, I mean the police can't just come barging in into your house to make sure your not stealing copyrighted material. As long as there is a way people will be doing it.

Copied and pasted directly from the last similar topic:

I think it should remain illegal, since goodness knows what would happen if we didn't have that ONE deterrent (the simple fact that it's illegal regardless of its enforcement). It's one thing for people who do currently pirate media to do it, since they're a relatively small percentage who don't affect the profits in any noticable way, but it's another to give the general populace carte blanche to pirate without paying any revenue to the companies in question, since they'll never turn out a profit. As is, many of those few people who pirate are principled enough to at least pay to buy a legal copy later on if they consider it worth the money in order to endorse those who produced it, and not if they're not. But if the majority thought they could do so legally, they'd never pay even if something is excellent, because the majority aren't so principled. Why pay for it if you don't have to?

Maybe they could take it so far as to make movies available for pirating on the internet, and have a "donate to the producers" option if you enjoyed it, but how many would use that? I've been using MIRC for years, and there's been a little annoying notice since I started saying "hey, if you like MIRC, why not donate to the guy who made it"? I never have, because I don't have to.

So I can see an argument in favour of piracy in some situations. If a film or game isn't available in your country, for example, you shouldn't have to pay extortionate amounts to import it, and if the company intended for you to buy it they'd make it available in your country. Therefore they clearly don't, and can expect no less than for you to obtain it in a way that won't cost you a stupid amount just to obtain it, on top of the standard price which may be extortionate itself. If it costs too much to import, you wouldn't anyway if piracy was impossible, and so it's not money they lose because you didn't buy it. It may even be the case that you can't get it imported into your country, meaning that this company has no way of earning money from you to begin with, so they lose nothing from you downloading it, since it's not money they would gain if you didn't.

If a game is so old that there's no way a company could profit off it in this day and age, and the only copies available are pre-owned, then piracy has no real effect or detriment there. VC, XBLA, and PSN have changed the situation here now, so the only real objection is that Nintendo at least once indicated that such downloads would be free at one time before realising they could exploit the system to make a tidy sum, but that's the only objection and not really a legally enforceable one.

If you are one of those principled pirates I mentioned above, who will pay for anything he downloaded and enjoyed and not for those he didn't, then again, despite the subjective nature of one's opinion, I suppose I can't reasonably object without basically saying that someone who doesn't deserve money should be given it anyway (although ordinary members of the public deciding if someone deserves to be paid for their work is, in a way, a form of vigilantism, in that they're taking authority into their own hands).

But I can't see an argument in favour of just legalising that which we today call media piracy.


An interesting article here, by the way: Polls say illegal downloaders spend the most on music. This doesn't change my stance, but it's still a thinking point.

Originally Posted by sage_of_fire

You're pretty much right. But while I don't think it can destroy an industry I do think it can greatly hinder it by preventing new blood from coming in.

I think the contrary. It's a good way to get new music out there. People aren't thiking that it might be bad and thus don't want to pay for it. Makespeople more willing to give it a try.

Personaly, I've downloaded a couple movies. But they were movies that I looked for and just couldn't find. I also probably will buy them if I find them because I really like them. The only TV I download is pretty much BLEACH, but that's for obvious reasons.

Music I download a ton of. In fact, I just finished downloading a couple songs. I don't really care abut it though because the music I download is pretty much all from people making a good ammount of money. And a lot of times if I download music form somone I haven't heard a lot from it'll lead to me liking them and buying a CD or two.

Overall it is a tough call to make. On one hand there is the "well if everyone pirated music no one would make money and the industry would die". But on the other hand there the fact that that's never going to happen. There will always be people willing to pay for it, people who do both, and people who pay a dime. Besides, there's other way musicians make money as well.

Originally Posted by Mattocks

I think the contrary. It's a good way to get new music out there. People aren't thiking that it might be bad and thus don't want to pay for it. Makespeople more willing to give it a try.

I agree with this. Being able to search for, and get, any song/album/band that comes up in conversation makes a person (such as myself) much more willing to look into new music. If someone mentions a song to me and recommends that I listen, the first thing I do is go to Youtube and listen to it. Without such an option, I'd merely say "yeah that's interesting" and promptly forget all about it.

IMO, artists merely need to come up with a way to take advantage of this phenomenon. Adapt and thrive.

Originally Posted by Bravo

IMO, artists merely need to come up with a way to take advantage of this phenomenon. Adapt and thrive.

Some record companies are actually taking it aboard - in the article I link to in my post, it says that Virgin and another company either have or are going to be introducing a service whereby for a monthly payment of £15 you can download an unlimited amount of music, basically subscribing to a filesharer for an affordable fee rather than demanding that you pay for every individual song you download. There's almost certainly money to be made like this given that in Britain especially we don't have massive connections and some ISPs have download limits, so we may download a lot but not so much that it bankrupts the corporations to provide such a service. £15 pounds a month for access to an unlimited library of songs from every subscriber is a lot of money, especially given the price of CDs (often amounting to more than £1 per song) is too high for some people.

When you get a censored version of No More Heroes in Europe 3-4 months after the US release date, and it costs twice as much, tell me, do you feel like going out and buying the game? I sure as hell don't. Either give me a way to buy the American version and play it on my PAL Wii legally, or I will pirate it.

That's my opinion of the matters.

Oh- and I won't ever buy a single EA game except for Skate 2 because I don't want my computer to be infested with DRM.

If you can't get it legally in the country, I think it's fine to download it. I mean, why would you pay an arm and a leg to get music imported from a foreign country when you can get it instantly for free? Oh, and also it's alright when the artist, director, or the video game makers are fine with it. The band Evanescence publically stated it was fine to download all of their albums made before Fallen, thus making piracy for those albums pretty much legal on my standpoint.

I download stuff because I'm broke.
The only thing I really feel bad about right now is downloading a couple of Owl City songs- as soon as I get some cash I'm going to buy them for real.

I see piracy as a kind of double edged sword- while I understand that it's bad, I kind of can't help but do it. Because, the majority of the time when I pirate something, I wouldn't have payed for it anyway- as in, I don't want it enough to pay for it. If I can't get it for free, I probably wouldn't get it at all.

Originally Posted by Chari

If you can't get it legally in the country, I think it's fine to download it. I mean, why would you pay an arm and a leg to get music imported from a foreign country when you can get it instantly for free?

This is one of my arguments - since the laws are there to stop people from being unjustly enriched while the companies in question are being unjustly deprived of enrichment, in the scenario where something cannot be obtained without paying a price far above what any reasonable person would be willing to pay while people in other countries are able to obtain it for a far more reasonable price, you are not unjustly enriched and the company is not unjustly deprived of enrichment if you download it. It's not like you'd buy it if you were unable to download it, so there's no detriment on the part of the company, and although you may be enriched (since you're seeing/listening to something you otherwise wouldn't be able to), it's arguable that you are not unjustly enriched.

Oh, and also it's alright when the artist, director, or the video game makers are fine with it. The band Evanescence publically stated it was fine to download all of their albums made before Fallen, thus making piracy for those albums pretty much legal on my standpoint.

In this scenario although the creators of the music are fine with downloads, the record companies are losing out if you don't buy the music legally. The artist doesn't get 100% of the price for their music so them giving permission to download doesn't necessarily make it legal.

Study shows that pirates spend ten times as much on music as non-pirates.

This may sound ridiculous, but really, it makes sense. Why would you invest in an industry you aren't familiar with, and what better way to become familiar with an industry than in a zero-loss environment?

So then if piracy increases sales, why is it that organizations such as the RIAA and MPAA oppose it?

Sales of popular artists among pirates are lower than the average, and sales of less popular artists among pirates are higher than the average

Yes, the RIAA are opposed to piracy not because it presents a danger to the industry, but because it presents a danger to their portion of the industry.

The reason the RIAA and the MPAA and the FPM and pretty much any other anti-piracy outfit opposes piracy is because they don't like it when you purchase from artists independent of them. Considering modern technology also serves to make these labels- especially within the RIAA- completely unneeded, these organizations only serve to obscure independent artists out of view, and to encourage independent artists to use them for distribution. They are cartels.