A Religion Theory (help)

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Wyrm: How do you know we're doomed to fail? Perhaps we're going to succeed.

You can not tell me that everyone on this planet is going to succeed and be perfect moral people. And you can not tell me that you haven't made a major ♥♥♥♥ up in your life.

Dark: That depends on what you mean by major. Besides maybe WE won't succeed but our descendants will.

Are you all seriously this stupid?

You all are forgetting the most importanty fact about God: GOD IS A JUST GOD.

This means that he will save those who deserve to be saved and banish those who deserve to be banished.

By the way, don't look for any agreeing between the theists and atheists for it is pointless.

However, I must say that you all are asking such stupid debate questions that aren't even logical. God is just, and God will send those who can enter Heaven to Heaven, and those who deserve Hell shall go to Hell to be tortured for eternity by the devil.

Originally Posted by __Link__

You all are forgetting the most importanty fact about God: GOD IS A JUST GOD.

Which is all the more concerning, if what some people claim is true.

This means that he will save those who deserve to be saved and banish those who deserve to be banished.

And we're asking where the line between those falls, since nobody can agree on it. Some people say that if you don't believe in their god, you're going to suffer for eternity. Now, that's not fair.

By the way, don't look for any agreeing between the theists and atheists for it is pointless.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Do you know how many theists agree with each other? Not very many, let me tell you.

However, I must say that you all are asking such stupid debate questions that aren't even logical. God is just, and God will send those who can enter Heaven to Heaven, and those who deserve Hell shall go to Hell to be tortured for eternity by the devil.

We're asking what "deserving to go to Hell means". That's certainly not illogical. You're doing nothing for this discussion by reiterating our own question back at us.

Okay, here is what I personally feel:

God is not going to judge you by what religion you are; God will judge you by how you were in life.

Now, "deserving Hell" means many things. Among these things are the following:

1.) commiting of mortal sin and not caring
2.) devil worship
3.) rejecting God
4.) not aiding anyone in your life and only caring about yourself
5.) denying God at your own fault and never feeling sorry for it
6.) others......

Link: Hang on isn't rejecting god the same as being an aetheist? I have to draw issue with this because I think as long as a person leads a good life then they will go to heaven regardless of their belief in god.

^No.

According to most theistic religions this is what that means:

If someone is a devil worshiper or an atheist at THEIR OWN CHOICE AND FAULT, they shall not be pardoned unless they convert back to God. However, if someone is an atheist or devil worshiper NOT BY THEIR OWN CHOICE OR FAULT, they shall be judged on their actions in life to determine their fate.

Originally Posted by __Link__

God is not going to judge you by what religion you are

Now, "deserving Hell" means many things. Among these things are the following:
3.) rejecting God

Hang on, isn't practicing a different religion technically "rejecting" your God?
Not everyone worships the same god.
Do you think the oldie Greeks and Romans went to Hell because they worshipped Zeus and Hera and that gang?

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Link: Hang on isn't rejecting god the same as being an aetheist?

No, it's not. Not necessarily. Atheism means, very simply, a lack of belief in a god. It's a default, neutral state.

It CAN be a rejection of God, but those are only what are called "strong atheists", and there are not as many of those as people think. Most people are weak atheists, meaning they simply do not believe in a god.

Infants are atheists.
People who don't know the concept of religion are atheists. Et cetera.

Originally Posted by __Link__

If someone is a devil worshiper or an atheist at THEIR OWN CHOICE AND FAULT, they shall not be pardoned unless they convert back to God.

See, this is why your God is a contradictory asshat. To put it very bluntly.

Tonchiki: Okay then that comment isn't really that bad then.

Tonchiki, you can't understand apparently. If you deserve Hell you are going there. Now stop making this thread a stupid "does God exist?" ordeal. We obviously are not going to agree so everyone shut the **** up about God's existence!!!!!

Originally Posted by __Link__

Tonchiki, you can't understand apparently. If you deserve Hell you are going there. Now stop making this thread a stupid "does God exist?" ordeal. We obviously are not going to agree so everyone shut the **** up about God's existence!!!!!

We're talking about what it means to "deserve Hell", not whether or not God exists.

Of course if you "deserve Hell" you are going there. But that tells us nothing of what it means to "deserve Hell". By your definition, if I choose not to believe the same thing you do, I am going to suffer eternally. And that is not just.

If your God really were kind, he wouldn't punish those that make their own decisions instead of believing what another group believes for no reason.

If you think those that don't believe in your God are going to Hell, then your God is not just, and neither are you.

Link: I have to agree with Tonchiki on this one.

All I have to say to all of you is simply, WOW. You all are sooooo blind. In my opinion, all theists except devil theists are following the same God, but they have different views of God.

Secondly, Tonchiki, it is true that God shall punish those who reject God. God will not pardon those who "at their own fault" turn away from God. And quit saying that we are only talking about ONE religion here. We are talking about the whole of theism.

The clue for you is the phrase "at your own fault." Link is not trying to say that because you aren't his religion you are going to Hell. He is saying that God will make the right decision to banish those and save those who deserve it.

Originally Posted by Forgotten Queen

All I have to say to all of you is simply, WOW. You all are sooooo blind.

I just have to say, first of all: Irony.

In my opinion, all theists except devil theists are following the same God, but they have different views of God.

How about those that follow(ed) more than one god?
Some people could technically say their idea of God is just the entirety of the universe, rather than an active being. That's clearly not the same concept.

Secondly, Tonchiki, it is true that God shall punish those who reject God. God will not pardon those who "at their own fault" turn away from God.

Why does "at their own fault" matter? Technically speaking you're still saying anyone who doesn't believe the same thing you do is going to Hell. Every other religion but yours is "wrong".

And quit saying that we are only talking about ONE religion here. We are talking about the whole of theism.

We are absolutely not.

The clue for you is the phrase "at your own fault." Link is not trying to say that because you aren't his religion you are going to Hell. He is saying that God will make the right decision to banish those and save those who deserve it.

For the umpteenth time, what does it mean to deserve it? That is what we are asking, and all you're demonstrating is that disagreeing with you is deserving of Hell.

Here is the bottom line........

Theists and atheists will never understand each other for they are contradicting forces 100% of the time. So here is my advice for all who view this thread....stop worrying about what other people think and quit turning religion and atheism into two hateful topics.

I know many atheists who are the nicest people. And I know many theists who aren't of my religion who are the same.

So, enough. You all are making total idiots of yourself. We are asking each other questions that only atheistic and theistic experts can answer. We all have different opinions and quit being so damn biased and forceful and religiously and atheistically imperialistic. Just get along with each other. It really is not that hard, you know.

What if you are killing for a "noble cause"? Do you go to heaven then? What if truly believe you have lived a "good" life, but many others completely disagree. Who is the ultimate judge here? (God obviously) but then how do we know where we fall? God's "inspiring many many different men over the last few thousand years to write his will out" doesn't work because pretty much all of those contradict each other...

Liberalized Christians know how unjust and petty God really is, so they often soften what is very explicit in the bible.

If the bible is true, it is also true that "good acts" will not get you to heaven. Jesus said "Nobody comes to the father but through me." The fact is, if you don't believe in Christ's divinity, you're not going to heaven. That's the Christian perspective.

Decent, well-meaning people don't want to associate themselves with such an appalling doctrine, so they cherry pick.

^Once again, read my post above yours.

Oh and by the way, most Christians do not feel that way.

Originally Posted by Forgotten Queen

So, enough. You all are making total idiots of yourself. We are asking each other questions that only atheistic and theistic experts can answer. We all have different opinions and quit being so damn biased and forceful and religiously and atheistically imperialistic. Just get along with each other. It really is not that hard, you know.

I agree that it is very improbable that opinions will be moved, but it's not your place to come in here and mediate. Some of us really do enjoy these discussions. If you don't, why not remove yourself?

Um, all we are doing is arguing, not debating. Enjoyable? I think not.